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elvisman
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John MacArthur is a virulent anti-Catholic. One of the worst around.
I have a tape of his that my Protestant brother gave me. Even HE couldn’t believe the half-truths and outright lies MacArthur was spewing.
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I have a tape of his that my Protestant brother gave me. Even HE couldn’t believe the half-truths and outright lies MacArthur was spewing.
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Louie1983
Guest
You have heard the word of god, the problem for you is that you believe the word of god is ONLY contained in the bible. Where you know the church teaches through scripture and tradition, the onus is on you to rebut this. Which ofcourse you can’t, that’s why you don’t want to hear “what the church or council says”.I gave you scriptures to back up my statements. If you don’t agree then explain the verses. I don’t want to hear what the church or council says but only the Word of God.
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elvisman
Guest
I’ll make a deal with you.I gave you scriptures to back up my statements. If you don’t agree then explain the verses. I don’t want to hear what the church or council says but only the Word of God.
I’ll educate you on the scriptures you want me to if you answer my question that I’ve asked 3 times now:
In Acts 1:15,** when they were going to choose the successor of Judas, the word "Adelphoi" is used here to describe the 120 believers who were there.
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**Do you actually believe that they all had the same mother?? **
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tobinatorstark
Guest
I just looked him up. He went to Bob Jones University in which Bob Jones is a heretic, he practices Calvinism which is heresy. I don’t know if John Calvin was excommunicated or not, but still considered a heretic. Who gave This MacArthur clown to write his own translation of the Bible?? I guess MacArthur is no different than Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker
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Hesychios
Guest
Well, it looks like the scholarly discourse is over, time for the entertainment.
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ppasa316
Guest
Its ok not to be able to answer the questions on the scriptures. Just be a man or woman about it. I am also reading the same bible that you are from Gen-Rev. where in the bible does it say that mary was sinless. Answer the question why do some catholic scholars say that mary was not a perpetual virgin.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
I want to present some logical facts that clearly indicate that Jesus could not have had brothers. These are:
- If Jesus had brothers or sisters, does common sense not state that the descendants from Jesus’s mother would be proud of it? And accordingly, would these descendants not be claiming their rightful place as descendants of Mary? Yet, this has never happened!
- The Catholic Church has always proclaimed that Mary was ever-virgin. If such was not true, why has her alleged other children and possibly descendants ever publicly renounce the virginity of Mary as a lie? It is because there are no other children or descendants of Mary.
- If Mary would have had other children, Jesus would not have been as popular as He was. Jesus was popular because He was recognized as the promised Messiah, the fulfillment of prophecies found in the Old Testament. Jesus fulfilled the words found in the Gospel of Matthew where it states, “All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophoet: ‘Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son and they shall name him Emmanuel,’ which means, ‘God is with us.’” [Mt. 1:22-23] If Mary would have had other children, the prophecy regarding the virginity of Mary in the Gospel of Matthew would not have been fulfilled. And Jesus would not have been recognized as being the Messiah.
- In the Gospel of John, we read, “When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, here is your son.’ Then he said to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.” [Jn. 19:26-27]
- In the Gospel of Luke, we read how Jesus was conceived. “The angel said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.’” [Lk. 1: 35] The conception of Jesus resulted from a union between the Holy Spirit and Mary. This union, a marriage blessed by God, placed Mary in a position where she was obligated to maintain a vow of perpetual virginity after the birth of Jesus. If Mary would have had sex with Joseph after the birth of Jesus, this would have been viewed as an adulterous affair.
- In Mark 6:3, we read, “‘Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?’ And they were offense at him.” Notice here that there is only one reference to “the son of Mary,” that being Jesus. The others are not called the sons of Mary but rather the brothers of Jesus. If they would have been the brothers of Jesus, logically, they too would have been referred to as the sons of Mary.
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elvisman
Guest
As long as MacArthur keeps flapping his gums and spewing lies - you’re right. The entertainment ensues . . .
Well, it looks like the scholarly discourse is over, time for the entertainment.
Anyway - back to the issue at hand.
Can ANY Protestants out there answer the question I’ve asked 3 times now?
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elvisman
Guest
Ever gonna get around to answering MY question about Acts 1:15?
Hmmmm?
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tobinatorstark
Guest
Luke 1:28 solidifies Mary’s immaculate conception and perpetual Virginity. You are reading the same Bible I am?? Wow, I just got done reading the book of 2 Machabees. That was good book don’t you think? You are contradicting yourself. Somehow I doubt you are reading the Douay-Rheims or that this false MacArthur Bible has the the 7 Deutrocanonical books that most Protestants call Apocrypha (I have a friend who is a Lutheran Minister that accepts these 7 books). So you won’t answer our question about the scriptures, but its not ok that we present and answer the scriptures?? You make no sense. Again why should I use this MacArthur Bible??? He is heretic, and Calvinism is heresy. If the blessed virgin Mary wasn’t sinless how could she have carried the sinless Christ?? It isn’t possible
Luke 1:28 Douay-Rheims
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Haydock Bible Commentary
Ver. 28. Hail, full of grace:[5] by the greatest share of divine graces granted to any creature. This translation, approved by the ancient Fathers, agrees with the ancient Syriac and Arabic versions. There was no need therefore to change it into gracious, with Erasmus; into freely beloved, with Beza; into highly favoured, with the Protestant translators. For if seven deacons (Acts vi. 3.) are said to be full of the Holy Ghost, as it is again said of St. Stephen, (Acts vii. 55.) and also of the same St. Stephen, (Acts vi. ver. 8.) that he was full of grace, (as the learned Dr. Wells translates it in his amendments made to the Protestant translation) why should any one be offended at this salutation given to the blessed mother of God; who would not have been raised to this highest dignity, had not her soul been first prepared for it by the greatest share of divine graces? — The Lord is with thee, by his interior graces; and now, at this moment, is about to confer upon thee the highest of all dignities, by making thee truly the mother of God. (Witham) — The Catholic Church makes frequent use of these words which were brought by the archangel from heaven, as well to honour Jesus Christ and his virgin Mother, as because they were the first glad tidings of Christ’s incarnation, and man’s salvation; and are the very abridgment and sum of the whole gospel. In the Greek Church, they are used daily in the Mass [the Divine Liturgy]. See the Liturgy of St. James, and that of St. Chrysostom.
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tobinatorstark
Guest
I am guessing not. I sure looked all the evidence and scripture you pointed out and came to the same conclusion.
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tobinatorstark
Guest
Furthermore if are looking for the word Trinity in the Bible. That word isn’t in there yet it is taught. Sunday as the day for worship isn’t in the Bible. The Sabbath at the time was Saturday. It was changed after the resurrection by the Christians. Those that observe Sunday worship follow some Catholic tradition. Tradition is biblical and yes it stated in scriptures and you haven’t proven 2 Timothy 2:14 wrong either.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
A couple of years ago a huge archeological discovery gave the world the “James Ossuary” which said “…James brother of Jesus.” It was in Newsweek magazine and the Evangelical press covered the find extensively as proof that Catholics were wrong about Mary’s perpetual virginity. The person who discovered the ossuary, Oded Golan, was arrested July 21, 2003 and appeared the next day in court, where police revealed forging equipment – stencils, stones and yet-to-be-completed forgeries – they said were found in his home, according to the Associated Press. The Israeli Antiquities Authority (IAA) found him to be part an extensive forgery ring that has sold millions of dollars of artifacts to museums. Since then news of the ossuary has quietly disappeared from Evangelical apologetics.2
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tobinatorstark
Guest
Canticle of Canticles 4:7 proves the forthcoming of the immaculate conception and Mary’s perpetual Virginity as well as Proverbs 8 and Ecclesasticus 24
Canticle of Canticles 4:7 Douay-Rheims
thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in the
Haydock Bible Commentary
Ver. 7. Thee. All must be pure before they enter heaven, as the blessed Virgin [Mary] was on earth, (Worthington) and the Church is still, Ephesians v. 27. (Calmet) — Before his departure, Christ heaps praises on her.
Canticle of Canticles 4:7 Douay-Rheims
thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in the
Haydock Bible Commentary
Ver. 7. Thee. All must be pure before they enter heaven, as the blessed Virgin [Mary] was on earth, (Worthington) and the Church is still, Ephesians v. 27. (Calmet) — Before his departure, Christ heaps praises on her.
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ppasa316
Guest
Ok The Greek term used in Matt 13:55 is (adelphos) the normal word for brother. This same term is used for brothers in Acts 1:14. It was Jesus’ half brothers and the other disciples. You can not use adelphoi for brothers. Now that you have been educated, let me know if you need more help.
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tobinatorstark
Guest
give proof. You are the one that needs educated. All you are doing is misinforming others. You are not a Greek scholar.Ok The Greek term used in Matt 13:55 is (adelphos) the normal word for brother. This same term is used for brothers in Acts 1:14. It was Jesus’ half brothers and the other disciples. You can not use adelphoi for brothers. Now that you have been educated, let me know if you need more help.
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ppasa316
Guest
Your right about that brother. I can see how much catholics know about the Word of God from the church and councils.lol:shrug:
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tobinatorstark
Guest
Matthew 13:55 from the Haydock Bible Commentary
Ver. 55. Is not this the carpenter’s son?[1] I find carpenter in all translations, though the Greek word signifies, in general, a workman or craftsman. The Latin is also a general word, which of itself signifies no more a carpenter than a smith. But the common belief of the faithful is, that St. Joseph was a carpenter, which may be confirmed by what Theodoret relates (lib. iii. Hist. chap. xviii.) of one Libanius, under Julian the apostate, who asking scornfully of a holy man, what the carpenter’s son was doing at that time? the holy man made him this smart reply, that he was making a coffin for Julian; who was killed not long after. (Witham) — O! how truly astonishing is the stupidity of the Nazareans! They wonder whence wisdom itself possesses wisdom, and virtue itself virtue. The reason is evident: they only considered him as the son of a carpenter. (St. Jerome) — Was not David the son of an husbandman, and Amos a shepherd? They should then have honoured our Lord, when they heard him speak in this manner. What wonderful mildness in Christ! Though calumniated and reviled, he still answers with the greatest humility and charity, a prophet is not without honour, save in his own country. (ver. 57.) (St. Chrysostom in St. Thomas Aquinas) — His brethren. These were the children of Mary, the wife of Cleophas, sister of our blessed Lady; (Matthew xxviii. 56.; John xix. 25.) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour. (Challoner)
[1] Ver. 55. Fabri filius. tou tektonos, artificis. St. Hilary (Can. or cap. xiv. in Matt. p. 678. Ed. Ben.) thought that St. Joseph wrought with fire and iron. We find in a manner the same in St. Ambrose, Lib. iii. in Luc. in initio. p. 52. See also St. Chrysologus, Serm. xlviii. St. Justin (Dialogo cum Tryphone, p.69) says, Christ made aratra and juga; and in the Greek edition, (Parisiis, an. 1551, p. 93) arotra kai zuga. Theodoret, (lib. iii. Hist. chap. xviii, p. 656) Sandalipam fabricat, glossokomon … kataskeuazei.
Ver. 55. Is not this the carpenter’s son?[1] I find carpenter in all translations, though the Greek word signifies, in general, a workman or craftsman. The Latin is also a general word, which of itself signifies no more a carpenter than a smith. But the common belief of the faithful is, that St. Joseph was a carpenter, which may be confirmed by what Theodoret relates (lib. iii. Hist. chap. xviii.) of one Libanius, under Julian the apostate, who asking scornfully of a holy man, what the carpenter’s son was doing at that time? the holy man made him this smart reply, that he was making a coffin for Julian; who was killed not long after. (Witham) — O! how truly astonishing is the stupidity of the Nazareans! They wonder whence wisdom itself possesses wisdom, and virtue itself virtue. The reason is evident: they only considered him as the son of a carpenter. (St. Jerome) — Was not David the son of an husbandman, and Amos a shepherd? They should then have honoured our Lord, when they heard him speak in this manner. What wonderful mildness in Christ! Though calumniated and reviled, he still answers with the greatest humility and charity, a prophet is not without honour, save in his own country. (ver. 57.) (St. Chrysostom in St. Thomas Aquinas) — His brethren. These were the children of Mary, the wife of Cleophas, sister of our blessed Lady; (Matthew xxviii. 56.; John xix. 25.) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour. (Challoner)
[1] Ver. 55. Fabri filius. tou tektonos, artificis. St. Hilary (Can. or cap. xiv. in Matt. p. 678. Ed. Ben.) thought that St. Joseph wrought with fire and iron. We find in a manner the same in St. Ambrose, Lib. iii. in Luc. in initio. p. 52. See also St. Chrysologus, Serm. xlviii. St. Justin (Dialogo cum Tryphone, p.69) says, Christ made aratra and juga; and in the Greek edition, (Parisiis, an. 1551, p. 93) arotra kai zuga. Theodoret, (lib. iii. Hist. chap. xviii, p. 656) Sandalipam fabricat, glossokomon … kataskeuazei.
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tobinatorstark
Guest
We have no right to privately interpret the word of God. Catholics let the Church interpret the scriptures via the power of the Holy Spirit just as scripture demands us.
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ppasa316
Guest
Use your Greek translation book, bible reference books or don’t you have one, I showed you scriptures for my statements but you haven’t provided nothing other than to say your church or council says this or that. WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY
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