James, Brother of Jesus?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Oneheartway
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Use your Greek translation book, bible reference books or don’t you have one, I showed you scriptures for my statements but you haven’t provided nothing other than to say your church or council says this or that. WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY
We gave you what the word of God says. You ignored us. Scripture, Magisterium and Tradition is how God transmits his message. It even says so in 2 Thessalonians 2:14. I have given you several scripture passages. (Word of God) You have selective seeing. READ OUR POSTS or just leave and admit you don’t understand.
 
Last I checked many post in this thread come from the word of God. I have answered to every scripture passage you’ve thrown at me. Do you read scripture often??? It doesn’t sound like it. Post your credible proof.
 
part 1

The Church and the Councils back up the word of God and is quite faithful. Christ established the Church in Matthew 16:18-19

Haydock Bible Commentary

Ver. 18. Kago. And I say to thee, and tell thee why I before declared, (John i. 42.) that thou shouldst be called Peter, for thou art constituted the rock upon which, as a foundation, I will build my Church, and that so firmly, as not to suffer the gates (i.e. the powers) of hell to prevail against its foundation; because if they overturn its foundation, (i.e. thee and thy successors) they will overturn also the Church that rests upon it. Christ therefore here promises to Peter, that he and his successors should be to the end, as long as the Church should last, its supreme pastors and princes. (Tirinus) — In the Syriac tongue, which is that which Jesus Christ spoke, there is no difference of genders, as there is in Latin, between petra, a rock, and Petrus, Peter; hence, in the original language, the allusion was both more natural and more simple. (Bible de Vence) — Thou art Peter;[2] and upon this (i.e. upon thee, according to the literal and general exposition of the ancient Fathers) I will build my church. It is true St. Augustine, in one or two places, thus expounds these words, and upon this rock, (i.e. upon myself:) or upon this rock, which Peter hath confessed: yet he owns that he had also given the other interpretation, by which Peter himself was the rock. Some Fathers have also expounded it, upon the faith, which Peter confessed; but then they take not faith, as separated from the person of Peter, but on Peter, as holding the true faith. No one questions but that Christ himself is the great foundation-stone, the chief corner-stone, as St. Paul tells the Ephesians; (Chap. ii, ver. 20.) but it is also certain, that all the apostles may be called foundation-stones of the Church, as represented Apocalypse xxi. 14. In the mean time, St. Peter (called therefore Cephas, a rock) was the first and chief foundation-stone among the apostles, on whom Christ promised to build his Church. (Witham) — Thou art Peter, &c. As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ, so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz. that he, to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, (John i. 42.) should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be next to Christ himself, the chief foundation-stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven. — Upon this rock, &c. The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar language of the Jews, which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built; Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ by building his house, that is, his Church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder. (Matthew vii. 24, 25.) — The gates of hell, &c. That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself or his agents. For as the Church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, i.e. the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or Church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the Church of Christ. (Challoner) — The gates, in the Oriental style, signify the powers; thus, to this day, we designate the Ottoman or Turkish empire by the Ottoman port. The princes were wont to hold their courts at the gates of the city. (Bible de Vence)
 
Ok The Greek term used in Matt 13:55 is (adelphos) the normal word for brother. This same term is used for brothers in Acts 1:14. It was Jesus’ half brothers and the other disciples. You can not use adelphoi for brothers. Now that you have been educated, let me know if you need more help.👍
Adelphoi (Brothers) is the plural of Adelphos (Brother).
Boy - you REALLY don’t know the scriptures, do you?

Acts 1:15-16:

**During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (adelphoi) (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said, **"My brothers (adelphoi), the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus."

Ummm . . . care to try again? :rolleyes:
 
part 2

Ver. 19. And I will give to thee the keys, &c. This is another metaphor, expressing the supreme power and prerogative of the prince of the apostles. The keys of a city, or of its gates, are presented or given to the person that hath the chief power. We also own a power of the keys, given to the other apostles, but with a subordination to St. Peter and to his successor, as head of the Catholic Church. — And whatsoever thou shalt bind, &c. All the apostles, and their successors, partake also of this power of binding and loosing, but with a due subordination to one head invested with the supreme power. (Witham) — Loose on earth. The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence: the power of which is here granted. (Challoner) — Although Peter and his successors are mortal, they are nevertheless endowed with heavenly power, says St. Chrysostom, nor is the sentence of life and death passed by Peter to be attempted to be reversed, but what he declares is to be considered a divine answer from heaven, and what he decrees, a decree of God himself. He that heareth you, heareth me, &c. The power of binding is exercised, 1st. by refusing to absolve; 2nd. by enjoining penance for sins forgiven; 3nd. by excommunication, suspension or interdict; 4th. by making rules and laws for the government of the Church; 5th. by determining what is of faith by the judgments and definitions of the Church. (Tirinus) — The terms binding and loosing, are equivalent to opening and shutting, because formerly the Jews opened the fastenings of their doors by untying it, and they shut or secured their doors by tying or binding it. (Bible de Vence) — Dr. Whitby, a learned Protestant divine, thus expounds this and the preceding verse: “As a suitable return to thy confession, I say also to thee, that thou art by name Peter, i.e. a rock; and upon thee, who art this rock, I will build my Church, and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, the power of making laws to govern my Church.” (Tom. i, p. 143.) Dr. Hammond, another Protestant divine, explains it in the same manner. And p. 92, he says: " What is here meant by the keys, is best understand by Isaias xxii. 22, where they signify ruling the whole family or house of the king: and this being by Christ accommodated to the Church, denotes the power of governing it."
 
Your right about that brother. I can see how much catholics know about the Word of God from the church and councils.lol:shrug:
That’s either heresy or ignorance.
You say the Word of God is contained ONLY in the Bible.
What about Jesus? He IS the Word of God and transcends time and space. He is not restricted to being ONLY in the Bible.

Oh, ummmm . . . LOL?:rolleyes:
 
part 3

John 12:42 Douay-Rheims
However, many of the chief men also believed in him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, that they might not be cast out of the synagogue.

Isaias 22:22 Douay-Rheims

And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Haydock Bible Commentary

Ver. 22. Shoulder. Here the marks of dignity were worn. Eliacim was appointed master of the palace, over all the other servants. (Calmet) — Thus we may gather what power Christ conferred on St. Peter, when he gave him the keys of heaven, Matthew xvi. 19., and Apocalypse iii. 7. (Haydock)

you see we do follow the word of God quite well and accurately.
 
That’s either heresy or ignorance.
You say the Word of God is contained ONLY in the Bible.
What about Jesus? He IS the Word of God and transcends time and space. He is not restricted to being ONLY in the Bible.

Oh, ummmm . . . LOL?:rolleyes:
I would like to know where is scripture the Word of God is only contained in the Bible?? I seriously doubt he can answer that either. It seems he logs off every time you log in. He must be afraid of you and the truth.
 
I would like to know where is scripture the Word of God is only contained in the Bible?? I seriously doubt he can answer that either. It seems he logs off every time you log in. He must be afraid of you and the truth.
You get the same result with all non-catholics. They can’t answer it, and when they try to it’s a gross misunderstanding of scripture.
 
James is not a brother of Jesus. The verse that you’re referring to means brother in faith not in flesh. 🙂
 
James is not a brother of Jesus. The verse that you’re referring to means brother in faith not in flesh. 🙂
with all due respect scholars have been debating this question for centuries … it’s unclear what Paul meant here … but certainly the context and the way the word brother is used in Gal. 1:19 very emphatically indicates usage in the familial sense.

You guys are reaching at straws trying to defend a doctrine your own bible refutes; but I guess the more things Christians find to fight with each other over the less time you’ll have to stick your noses into politics and other areas it doesn’t belong 😛
 
with all due respect scholars have been debating this question for centuries … it’s unclear what Paul meant here … but certainly the context and the way the word brother is used in Gal. 1:19 very emphatically indicates usage in the familial sense.

You guys are reaching at straws trying to defend a doctrine your own bible refutes; but I guess the more things Christians find to fight with each other over the less time you’ll have to stick your noses into politics and other areas it doesn’t belong 😛
Christianity belongs everywhere. Evolution and other false garbage don’t belong in society. Oh how I wish groups like the ACLU and ACORN would be dissolved with all members being burned at the stake or beheaded.
 
We gave you what the word of God says. You ignored us. Scripture, Magisterium and Tradition is how God transmits his message. It even says so in 2 Thessalonians 2:14. I have given you several scripture passages. (Word of God) You have selective seeing. READ OUR POSTS or just leave and admit you don’t understand.
Ok so you pretty much have said you can’t answer the questions. which i figured already by your responses. I gave you scripture to support my statement. yet you respond with a scripture that doesn’t go with what we are talking about lol. Since you are quick to get rid of me i leave you with a few scriptures Gal 1:8-9, Col 2:8. Oh and by the way I am not going anywhere lol. I can be a man and admit when I am wrong but not on this one my brotha.
 
with all due respect scholars have been debating this question for centuries … it’s unclear what Paul meant here … but certainly the context and the way the word brother is used in Gal. 1:19 very emphatically indicates usage in the familial sense.

You guys are reaching at straws trying to defend a doctrine your own bible refutes; but I guess the more things Christians find to fight with each other over the less time you’ll have to stick your noses into politics and other areas it doesn’t belong 😛
Dude this is not a fight. Not even close but you are right about Gal 1:19
 
Ok so you pretty much have said you can’t answer the questions. which i figured already by your responses. I gave you scripture to support my statement. yet you respond with a scripture that doesn’t go with what we are talking about lol. Since you are quick to get rid of me i leave you with a few scriptures Gal 1:8-9, Col 2:8. Oh and by the way I am not going anywhere lol. I can be a man and admit when I am wrong but not on this one my brotha.
You are a liar. I gave tons of answers to all you questions. Quit twisting everything that we say or just leave this thread. I will answer to your scriptures

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

False prophecy is what this is about. This includes everything outside the Catholic Church

Col. 2:8

Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy, and vain deceit; according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ:

Col. 2:18

Let no man seduce you, willing in humility, and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh,

This is what you are trying to do me and Elvisman

From the Haydock Bible Commentary

Ver. 8. Lest any man impose upon you.[2] In the Greek, make a prey of you, as thieves that steal things. — There were two sorts of false teachers among them; they who mixed vain errors from heathen philosophy with the principles of the Christian religion, and they who had been Jews, and were for making them retain those rites and customs which the Jews had among them, and were only from their private human traditions. (Witham) This alludes to the traditions and observances which the Pharisees had added to the law of Moses, and which Christ had blamed; but which these false apostles wished to introduce amongst the Colossians. The ceremonial laws were the elementary instructions given by God to the world, but we are to attach ourselves to the doctrines of Jesus Christ, from whom alone we expect light and justice, and sanctity. (Bible de Vence) — According to the rudiments of the world: by which some expound vain fallacies and false maxims of the first kind of teachers; others the Jewish ceremonies, which are called weak and poor elements, or rudiments. (Galatians iv. 9.) This is neither to condemn in general the use of philosophy, which St. Augustine commends, and made use of, nor all traditions delivered by the apostles. See 1 Corinthians xi. and 2. Thessalonians ii. 14. (Witham)

something I exposed to you earlier in the thread clarifying the need for written word and sacred traditon

part 1
 
part 2

Ver. 18. Let no man seduce you.[5] In the Greek, hinder you from getting the prize. — Willing [6] (by their own will) in humility, and religion of Angels, practising a wrong and mistaken humility in regard of the Angels, when you pay them a worship not due to them, pretending them to be the mediators and saviours of mankind, as if they were equal, or greater than Christ, our only Redeemer; walking in things you understand not, these men being deceived by their vain philosophy, and pride of their own imaginations. By this means not holding, (ver. 19.) but having shaken off their only true invisible head, Christ Jesus, who is the head of his Church. It is admitted that these false doctors, among the Colossians, had introduced an undue and superstitious worship of Angels, and gave to them even a greater honour than to Christ. They worshipped them as the creators of the world, as mediators with God, even above Jesus Christ, which St. Paul here expresseth by these words, not holding the head. These seem to have been some disciples of Simon [the magician], and their heresies continued in some churches of Asia even to the fourth age [fourth century A.D.], as we may find by a canon of the council of Laodicea. But there is nothing here nor in that council against a due, i.e. an inferior honour and veneration, nothing like a divine honour, nor injurious to Christ, our chief mediator and only Redeemer, which the Church, from the first ages [first centuries A.D.], paid to saints and Angels. We do not ask grace, we do not offer up sacrifice, we hope not for salvation, but from God only, from Christ, God and man. (Witham) — Willing, &c. That is, by a self-willed, self-invented, superstitious worship, falsely pretending humility, but really proceeding from pride. Such was the worship that many of the philosophers (against whom St. Paul speaks, ver. 8.) paid to Angels or demons, by sacrificing to them, as carriers of intelligence betwixt God and man; pretending humility in so doing, as if God was too great to be addressed by men, and setting aside the mediatorship of Jesus Christ; who is the head both of Angels and men. Such also was the worship paid by the ancient heretics, disciples of Simon and Menander, to the Angels, whom they believed to be the makers and lords of this lower world. This is certain, that they whom the apostle here condemns, did not hold the head, (ver. 19.) that is, Jesus Christ, and his mediatorship; and therefore what he writes here no ways touches the Catholic doctrine and practice, of desiring our good Angels to pray to God for us, through Jesus Christ. St. Jerome, (Epist. ad Algas) understands by the religion or service of Angels, the Jewish religion given by Angels; and shews all that is here said to be directed against the Jewish teachers, who sought to subject the new Christians to the observances of the Mosaic law. (Challoner) — Walking in the things which he hath not seen. These false teachers pretended to know the number and names of the Angels, and how to distribute them into different orders and classes, with as much precision as if they had walked through heaven. Instead of following the revelation of the holy Spirit in the gospel, they followed their own spirit, boasting of what it was impossible for them to know. (Calmet) — But let no one snatch from you the glory of heaven, which should be the reward of your career, and the recompense of your fidelity, deceiving you by an outward show of false piety and affected humility. (Bible de Vence)
 
Ok so you pretty much have said you can’t answer the questions. which i figured already by your responses. I gave you scripture to support my statement. yet you respond with a scripture that doesn’t go with what we are talking about lol. Since you are quick to get rid of me i leave you with a few scriptures Gal 1:8-9, Col 2:8. Oh and by the way I am not going anywhere lol. I can be a man and admit when I am wrong but not on this one my brotha.
By the way, I didn’t know we shared the same mother. Maybe we are Christ’s biological brothers. Mary is our mother.

BTW when are you going to answer our questions (me and Elvisman). Elvisman asked you the same question 3 times and you aren’t answering it.
 
Ok so you pretty much have said you can’t answer the questions. which i figured already by your responses. I gave you scripture to support my statement. yet you respond with a scripture that doesn’t go with what we are talking about lol. Since you are quick to get rid of me i leave you with a few scriptures Gal 1:8-9, Col 2:8. Oh and by the way I am not going anywhere lol. I can be a man and admit when I am wrong but not on this one my brotha.
Where exactly in scripture does it say that scripture is only word of God. That contradicts 2 Thessalonians 2:14 as I mentioned earlier. Sola Scriptura is false. You have not presented any fact that James was the brother of Jesus. You aren’t a Greek scholar. We have someone who knows enough Greek to get bye it isn’t you
 
Ok so you pretty much have said you can’t answer the questions. which i figured already by your responses. I gave you scripture to support my statement. yet you respond with a scripture that doesn’t go with what we are talking about lol. Since you are quick to get rid of me i leave you with a few scriptures Gal 1:8-9, Col 2:8. Oh and by the way I am not going anywhere lol. I can be a man and admit when I am wrong but not on this one my brotha.
And neither you nor humble_in_doubt have been able to answer my question, my brotha.:rolleyes:

The Septuagint use of the words Adelphos and Adelphoi are really the crux of this argument.

You see - it’s really just a matter of understanding where the NT writers came from. The Early Fathers and the Church understand - but neither of you do . . .👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top