Jealousy & Marriage

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Gordon, I’m sorry. I know you are sincere and I admire you for trying to fix the situation. I don’t think I can help you…really. I’m sorry. Good luck to you and your wife. Maybe try marriage counseling, if you are both willing, and if you feel you need it. May God bless your marriage. 😉
 
*Hi Gordon–in reading a bit more of what you posted after your original post…it could be that your wife has insecurity issues, regardless of how innocent your communications with your female friends are like…was she at all like this, before you married her? If so, maybe it’s time to get to the root of it all…if not…then, maybe it has more to do with your actions, than not. No matter what, without your wife’s side, per se, it can be hard to give the ‘best’ advice, but I think that you both could use counseling…it seems that you feel your wife’s feelings are unfounded…and she feels that her feelings are valid. Somewhere in the middle, lies the compromise, but if you both keep forging along as you are…you won’t get any closer to a resolution. So, my advice, would be to speak to a trusted spiritual advisor or a marriage counselor…I think that at the very least, a completely objective person can help you both to communicate with one another better, and LISTEN to one another.

I hope that you’re not married to an ultra-jealous type…that can be very difficult, not impossible, to overcome. With God, all things are possible…I would curtail your chats with friends though, until you can successfully get a handle on this issue in your marriage. Your wife’s feelings, even if you feel they are unfounded, need to come first…BUT…make sure you get into counseling. If I’m reading your next post correctly, it does seem like she wants to be the sole center of your attention all of the time–and truly, that is unreasonable. Again, I’m only hearing your side, but that’s my suggestion…to seek counseling…and keep praying.

I will hold you both in my prayers. God bless. *
 
Okay, fair enough, Gordon. You stated your case much more thoroughly and completely this time around.

Was she a jealous personality before you married? Extra possessive?

Does she do other things that have you walk on eggshells? Does she have temper tantrums over little things? Or is this the only area where you are doing something that really bothers her.

I ask because sometimes people come to this site and they speak of one problem and it sounds one way and a little probing and it turns out the issue is something else entirely.

From what you write, if it is as you say, you are not out of bounds to communicate with coworkers or old friends to say hi once in a while, if it’s instances spread out over the years and this isn’t a daily occurrence.

While we are what we are when we get engaged, being married means we don’t continue to live quite like that afterward. Some things have to change. If you’ve tempered the sociability side of yours somewhat and if it’s a case that even if you crawled into a hole in the ground and pulled the dirt over your head it still wouldn’t be enough, then you have a different issue going.

How is she with the kids? What does her family say about this aspect of her personality?

If you changed your email to a joint email, would that help? If when you communicated, she was part of it and you handed the keyboard to her to say hi, and your friends became her friends too would that help?

I would suggest that you learn to gaze around more discreetly so she doesn’t catch you looking. It is demeaning to a woman to be with a man and his eyes are elsewhere for longer than they should be, artist or no artist.

Is she home with the kids all day and hungry for adult conversation when you get home and you’re all talked out?

It’s hard to be fair to either of you in this going on so few facts.

Jealousy and insecurity stem from different sources. With some people, they are jealous because they project their own lack of trustworthiness onto other people. This doesn’t sound like the case with your wife.

Sometimes jealousy and insecurity come from fear… of losing something dear and feeling powerless. Did she grow up with loss or impermanence in important areas of her life? Were you her one and only love and she’s afraid if you wander off she’s lost?

If it doesn’t improve, I would suggest Retrouvaille. Or a marriage encounter. Both of them teach wonderful communication techniques that allow the couple to communicate in writing in a back and forth format where they can grow closer.

Insecure personalities are hard to deal with because there’s always a need for more reassurance. Filling the vast pit can become a full time job.

From what you say, communication is something you need to work on as a couple, if talking till you’re blue in the face about a subject gets no resolution from her, even on a subject as important as your son.

And you’re a real trooper to come back so nicely and factually and fill in the blanks as politely as you did. 👍 If you’re like that when your wife starts interrogating you and challenging you, she’s luckier than she may know.

(You passed the test, pal. 😉 )
 
Before we were married, my wife did not act overly jealous but we weren’t in too many situations for that to happen. Due to our circumstances, when we were together it was just the two of us 90% of the time. The rest of the time was almost always with just my male friends or other couples. She did have a lot of insecurity and resentment toward guys she’d been with before me, and would often try to punish me for how they’d treated her. Me being the awful guy I am, I stuck by her and wouldn’t let her push me away. My “trial-by-fire” with her lasted at least 5 years, well into our actual marriage. I was pig-headed enough to not let her past experiences or any other outside influences ruin our relationship. After we got married, we were able to settle more into our old routines–seeing and communicating with other friends, etc.–which helped to expose the jealousy.

Despite some roadbumps here & there, I actually have a really good track record when it comes to choosing my friends. For the most part they are all decent, supportive people (even the ones who don’t like discussing personal issues). I tend to lose track of the ones who aren’t. We’ve had some serious issues with a couple of her friends in the past, and I think that has something to do with it. I try to explain to her that, just because one of her friends betrayed her in the past, that doesn’t mean mine will act the same way.

I don’t pick friends based on looks or gender, or to stoke my ego. I’d much rather be surrounded by a group of close, supportive friends than a group of attractive, back-stabbing dimwits. Who the person is has always been more important to me than how they look, what they drive, how much they make, etc.

Having a joint email account isn’t a good idea just because I do a lot of my gift-shopping online. I don’t want my wife finding out what I’m getting her for Christmas, birthdays, etc.

We’re both home during the day at least three days a week, so we share the kid duties pretty evenly. She does a bit more of the housework, but I work full time, handle 90+% of the school duties, 99+% of the discipline, pay all the bills, do the bulk of the yard work, etc. so it evens out. When she needs an ear, shoulder or whatever, I’m always right there, and she’s always the first person I go to with anything that’s bothering me.

When it comes to me specifically looking for/at something for my art, as long as I’m doing research online or via books/magazines she gives me a pretty wide berth and will even offer suggestions/opinions. If it involves an actual person, it’s a different story. I wanted to take a life drawing class a couple years ago to help rehone my figure drawing and she shot it down, even after I explained that most of the models are much older and/or unsightly. A lot of times I’m left with a catch-22 simply because there’s no right course of action. If she asks me whether so-and-so looks nice, I know that 90% of the time any answer I give will be the wrong one (if I say yes then I’m in trouble because I’m clearly interested, and if I say no I’m lying).

I tell my wife all the time that what I want from our relationship is complete openness, honesty and trust on every level. I don’t hide anything from her and I don’t want her to hide anything from me. Part of that trust, from my point of view, involves not doubting or mistrusting the other. I think a lack of trust and hurtful allegations can harm a relationship almost as much as true infidelity, but she doesn’t seem to see that. I shouldn’t have to pay for how others wronged her in the past. At the same time, I want her to be able to have the faith in me that I’ve made every effort to earn over the years. I think if she’d realize that and let go of her doubts, she’d be a much happier person, which would have a huge positive effect on the rest of the family.
 
Gordon, thanks for explaining further.

It could very well be that your wife is being unreasonable. It’s so hard to judge that with only having your side of the story. Think about the facts though: is she likely to change? Probably not…you’ve said this is her “nature” and it sounds like part of her personality.

At this point I don’t believe it’s about who is right or who is wrong. For arguments sake, let’s just say she’s definitely in the wrong. Ok…so what’s next?

Your choices are either to a.) continue the behavior that bothers your wife because you feel it’s unreasonable for you to have to stop, or b.) stop or limit the behavior because you love your wife and you want her to feel happy and secure.
 
When she asks you if so and so looks good, your answer should be a variation on the theme:

“Not as good as you.”

“You’re prettier.”

“I have better at home.”

Rinse. Repeat.

After 13 years she should be clear that you’re not a cheater. This is a great example of why it’s so important when dating to see the person around other people a lot. The only thing a couple learns about each other when they’re alone is how they behave when they’re alone together.

Why are you doing 99 percent of the disciplining of children. No parent should have to be the bad guy all the time. That’s not fair.
 
Hi Gordon,

Reading through another thread you posted in, perhaps your wife’s insecurities have to do with the internet problem you said you had before. I realize that you have stopped, which is commendable but it certainly, without a doubt would explain your wife’s insecurities. I have been in her her shoes with that issue myself in the past.

It comes down to, the internet may be an area of mistrust for quite some time. I realize that you are very in love with your wife and feel you are being good to her. Yet when one’s self esteem is crushed like that, it’s difficult to repair and may take quite a lot of effort on your part. I’m just talking about making sure she knows that you think she is beautiful and the only woman you wan to be with. She can’t be left thinking you are fantasizing about other women. It is very painful to think your spouse is attracted to other women more than you.
 
This is my first post here. I’ve tried a couple other Catholic forums, but after reading this one the last couple weeks, I decided to try here.

One issue that’s been gnawing at me for some time is my wife’s jealous nature. We’ve been married over 13 years & have been together for 15. In all this time I’ve never been unfaithful nor given her reason to doubt me.
What about the fact that you watch pornography?
Despite this, she’s extremely mistrustful of me regardless of what I say or do. The main thing she points to is the fact that I tend to look at other women. I’m an artist & writer by nature, though, and I look at anyone and everyone–not just women, but pretty much everyone I see. One of my favorite pastimes is people-watching, which has never struck me as lascivious or wrong.
You should keep your eyes under control.
Another thing that sparks her jealousy is any time I talk with or make friends with other women. She’s much more introverted than me & doesn’t believe a spouse should have friends of the opposite sex. I personally don’t share that view and believe that someone who is fully devoted to their spouse can have friends of the opposite sex without issue.
Your wife is wise, she understands the weakness of our natures.
I’ll admit I’ve misjudged people in the past, but that hasn’t impacted my devotion to my wife. On several occasions I’ve had friends & acquaintances make passes at me. In each of these situations I told my wife immediately afterwards. Each time it resulted in her being more upset with me than the person who made advances on me. To this day I can’t understand her reaction because I was completely honest and transparent with her about it & never initiated or reciprocated any of it.
What kind of games are you playing with your wife? You should have shielded her from that knowledge. She is angry at you because you should not have put yourself in a situation where that could occur in the first place. AS a Catholic you are meant to avoid situations that could be occasions of sin, just because you did not reciprocate you have still caused sin in the other person and so are responsible for that.
Although nothing like that has happened in years, her jealousy seems to have only gotten worse. A while back I developed a fairly close friendship with a female coworker. While not Catholic, she’s a devout Christian & a good, wholesome person. Each of us works remotely so the closest we ever came to one another physically was about 1400 miles. We would often talk while on shift and would exchange emails with one another. After she lost her job, we kept in touch via email and would send each other encouraging notes, jokes…basically the sort of things I send to my other friends.

A year or so back, after several days of the cold shoulder, I found that my wife was upset with me because she’d been reading my emails. She felt violated by the fact that I’d “discussed intimate details” of ours & our kids’ lives with this woman. It wasn’t anything like that (I’d asked advice about our son because she’d gone through similar experiences), but my wife was irate. She claimed she didn’t doubt me but it was clear she did. She also insisted that this friend had less than honorable intentions, which clearly wasn’t the case, but I couldn’t convince her otherwise. After several months of huge fights anytime this friend sent me an email, whether I read/responded to them or not, my wife finally told me that she would leave me if I ever responded to this woman again. Although I didn’t feel this was reasonable, I didn’t want to harm my marriage so I told my wife I would cut this friend out of my life.
Why would you prefer to spend time socialising with this other woman rather than your wife?
As much as I love my wife and want us to be happy, I also can’t bear the thought of her not trusting me or having to feel guilty simply for wanting to communicate with friends.
I would imagine she is happy for you to have as many male friends as you want. What she does not like is you preferring other women over her, which seems perfectly reasonable to me.
My belief is that God intended my wife and I to be together and she satisfies my every desire–mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically.
But not socially it seems. How about you return the favour and satisfy her desire for you not to pursue friendships with other women?
The idea of telling someone that I have to cut off communications with them because they don’t suit my wife’s idea of a proper friend is extremely frustrating & just adds more stress that we don’t need.
That we don’t need? You mean you not we, it is your constant socialising with other women against your wife’s wishes that is causing her stress, your ending of such friendships will do wonders for her stress levels.
I don’t know how to communicate this to my wife in a way that will make a difference, or how to get her to accept the idea that I’m really a fully devoted spouse. Any advice would be welcome.
Your wife is like this because she loves you and fears losing you, stop having other other women in your life for her sake, be selfless instead of selfish. Friendships can easily develop into love affairs plus time you spend with these other women is time you are robbing from your wife.
 
I didn’t know about the other posts. That does change things.

😊

Get off the computer, Gordon. And be honest with us.

Is this your first time posting or not? What else are you fudging about? I mean, if you’re not being honest with us, do you do this to your wife and then wonder why she has trust issues?
 
What about the fact that you watch pornography?
I’m not sure where the guy said that he watches pornography.

In another thread, he did mention that he watched porn a couple years ago until his wife’s miscarriage prompted him to stop, but by all accounts, he stays away from the stuff now.
 
When she asks you if so and so looks good, your answer should be a variation on the theme…
Doesn’t work, just leads to her saying, “yeah, right.”
Why are you doing 99 percent of the disciplining of children. No parent should have to be the bad guy all the time. That’s not fair.
Long story short is that she had just given birth to our son a few weeks before I met her. She was in a horrible situation at home and when we got married she wanted some time to be something other than the detached disciplinarian her parents insisted on her being before we were married. After so many years of handling 100% of the serious parental issues and discipline, once our daughters were born I’d kind of been shoe-horned into that role. It’s slightly better now, but I still fill that role the vast majority of the time.

As far as any issues with pornography, she was pretty much under the same misconception that it was a normal “guy thing,” and seldom if ever voiced any complaints about it. (This thread was my first post; the pornography comments were made later in response to a different thread. The honest discussion in that thread, though, was one of the things that drew me to this forum.) Although she’s happy that it’s no longer an issue, she was more surprised over the decision than anything, mainly because she didn’t view it as such a serious issue. I think she has a better understanding of it now that I’ve discussed it with and explained to her how much my outlook has changed, but it wasn’t something she ever expressed any real distress over. Over the years it was never something she brought up as a source of insecurity or doubt and, therefore, was never something either of us–at least as far as I can tell–associated with any other issues. At this point, though, it’s a non-issue and the positive results of having it out of our lives are tremendous.
 
What kind of games are you playing with your wife? You should have shielded her from that knowledge. She is angry at you because you should not have put yourself in a situation where that could occur in the first place. AS a Catholic you are meant to avoid situations that could be occasions of sin, just because you did not reciprocate you have still caused sin in the other person and so are responsible for that.
I’d much rather be honest with my wife than hide something from her. As far as not putting myself into a situation, none of these happened in a situation that raised a red flag for me. I can’t avoid going to work, the grocery store, family parties, friends’ weddings, etc. The one that was really avoidable was the incident at a friend’s house, but I’d been there numerous times over the years without any issue and had no reason to suspect that anything would be different on that occasion. If someone has no respect for the sanctity of marriage, I’m not the cause of that person’s sin. I’ve had women approach me in the grocery store while I was shopping with my kids. How on earth could I be seen as enticing someone to sin in that situation?
Why would you prefer to spend time socialising with this other woman rather than your wife?
I don’t, and never said I did. Part of my job is to foster teamwork which requires me to interact with the people who report to me. That tends to lead to friendships in some situations and this was one of those cases. If I talk to someone at work or respond to an email, I’m not choosing to socialize with that person over my wife. And if a friend is going through a crisis and I choose to send a note of encouragement, I’m not violating a trust or acting in an untoward or suspicious manner. I don’t prefer anyone over her, male or female, but I do value my friendships. I know that she values hers as well and wouldn’t want me telling her to turn her back on any of her friends. I don’t see any difference between a purely platonic friendship with a man and one with a woman. If I were someone who’d violated her trust, I could see her being suspicious of me, but I’ve never done that. I would much rather have these friendships be mutual friendships specifically for the benefit of my wife. Although she claims not to need a large number of friends or a greater amount of socializing, I can see how much she benefits from spending the time that she does with her friends, which makes things better for the whole family. It puts her in a better mood, gets her out more and gives us more to talk about, all of which are very positive aspects.
That we don’t need? You mean you not we, it is your constant socialising with other women against your wife’s wishes that is causing her stress, your ending of such friendships will do wonders for her stress levels.
Actually, I do mean we. If she’s upset and argumentative it stresses me out and upsets the kids. If she’s getting upset and refusing to talk to me because she thinks I looked at another woman (and if there’s a woman anywhere nearby, she’s likely going to think I looked at her even on days when my bad eye’s acting up and I can’t see much of anything), it causes completely unneeded stress for all of us. If she tells me she thinks an actor’s attractive I don’t feel betrayed or think she would leave me for him. If I say that I like an actress’s hair because it reminds me of one of our daughters, she’ll leave the room and quit talking to me because I clearly stated that I’m turned on by that actress and would jump at the chance to abandon my family for her. We don’t need situations like that in our lives, and avoiding them puts unreasonable restrictions on me.

Just because I recognize the fact that someone is attractive doesn’t mean I want to have sex with them. And if the fact that I’m in a better mood after talking to a friend means that I want to have an affair with them, then she needs to ban me from talking to my one cousin because nothing cheers me up more than hearing from him. My point is, I don’t look at anyone other than my wife in that way. Surround me with 20 of the most beautiful women you can think of and I’m still going to prefer my wife by my side.

We were out with some friends recently and a group of very cute teenage girls walked past. The one guy’s wife told him to stop looking and that they were jailbait. She then said it didn’t bother her because it meant she’d get lucky later. I talked to my wife about it later and we were both really bothered by it. She then told me that she’d have been furious with me if, like my friend, I’d turned my head and stared at the girls as they walked by. I pointed out to her, yet again, that I don’t look at anyone other than her in that way. I told her that the most upsetting thing about the incident was that either of our friends would feel that they needed more than their spouse in their life–maybe not in a physical sense, but they’ve both told us before that they base their TV and movie watching on which shows will most turn them on. I’ve brought that up to my wife several times since then and told her how happy I am that she satisfies me so completely. More than anything I want her to understand that she’s my perfect match; nobody else could possibly take her place. We both benefit not just from our friendships but from the other’s as well (as I said above, it puts us in better moods, gives us more to discuss, etc. and therefore enriches our time together), and I want her to be as comfortable and trusting in me as I am in her.
 
Never, ever look at other women in your wife’s presence. Do your people watching when your wife is not around.

Also, it is hard to tell the extent of your friendships with other women. Are they people you talk to once every month or two to catch up, or are they people you are having exciting conversations with several times a week?

If it’s the latter, consider limiting that kind of frequent contact to male friends or couples. Even if you are not flirting, or attracted to them it is how affairs start. You meet someone, you become close to them as friends, then you become attached and attracted to them, and the next thing you know you’re more interested and excited about talking to them than your spouse. That already is an emotional affair.

Friendships are important, and you shouldn’t drop your friends just because your wife doesn’t like them. But as a married man there are appropriate and inappropriate friendships you can have with women. Specifically, frequent interaction, deep emotional connection with other women (particularly single, attractive women) is inappropriate.

You say women make passes at you. What is a “pass” as you see it? If women are very openly hitting on you, and making advances… well you have to ask yourself what you are doing to encourage that from them. Unless you are friends with particularly sexual women who hit on every guy, it is rare for a woman to make advances on a guy (particularly a married guy), if she doesn’t already think the guy would welcome those advances. What are you doing to make women think their passes at you would be reciprocated?
 
You sound like a rational person, and you’re willing to think about your problem objectively. This is good.

On the other hand, I’m wondering if a more emotional approach is warranted in this situation. Your friendships with women are causing your wife emotional pain, and it appears that cutting down on the friendships would improve her emotional well-being.

You can analyze this situation all you want, and come up with 35 valid reasons why the friendships are nothing to worry about – but in the end, your wife will still be upset, and there’s only one thing you can do to help her. She’s your wife, and you owe everything to her. Conversely, the other women are not your wives, and you owe nothing to them.

In other words, maybe it’s time to start thinking more about your wife’s feelings and less about the particular details of these friendships.

Another thought: You mentioned that your wife didn’t want you to take nude drawing classes. Your previous porn use may have prompted this thought (even subconciously.) Although you may believe that you’re a professional and that you could handle it without any deviant thoughts…weren’t you just as much of a professional when you used to be addicted to porn? Maybe your wife has a point here, and perhaps the nude drawing class could be damaging to you (due to past damage from porn), whether you realize it or not.
 
Also, it is hard to tell the extent of your friendships with other women. Are they people you talk to once every month or two to catch up, or are they people you are having exciting conversations with several times a week?
Predominantly, these are online friendships, mostly with people I was friends with in grade school, high school & college. We see some of them in person occasionally, but for the most part the bulk of the contact I have with them is occasional emails or Facebook messages (usually not more than once a week unless something big/special comes up). Outside of my core group of guy friends, most of the friends I had in college were girls. It’s not as though I only sought out women to rekindle friendships with (or that I’ve kept in touch with); I’ve tried to stay in touch with or reconnect with most of my old friends, but based on the percentages there just happen to be a high percentage of women. The ones I see in person or talk to on the phone are largely family, and it’s been years since she’s gotten jealous over that. Several of the friends, though, are people I grew up with like family and I still view them in that way to this day. I’m only friends with a handful of their spouses (my wife’s questioned why I’m not friends with the husbands instead or in addition to), but that’s largely because I’ve never met them. Only a handful of them are single, and most of the single ones are either lesbians or much older than me. Oddly enough, the one single one who’s younger and extremely attractive is one of the ones I communicate with the most, and is one of the few my wife doesn’t mind me talking to (I can’t begin to even try to explain why).

I wouldn’t categorize any of these friendships as deep emotional attachments, although for the ones I grew up with I definitely have a stronger emotional bond with them than I do with more casual friends. The vast bulk of my contact with them is casual, and I can’t think of anything inappropriate that’s taken place. If there had been, maybe I could see my wife’s point of view a little easier, but when the most risque or forward comments I get are ones telling me how cute my kids are or that someone’s keeping me in their thoughts & prayers when I’m going through a hard time, I have a hard time seeing how that can be viewed as suspicious.
You say women make passes at you. What is a “pass” as you see it? …What are you doing to make women think their passes at you would be reciprocated?
For the most part, it’s been extremely flirtatious behavior that ended in them asking me for my number, address, a date or a “quickie” when I told them I was married and not interested. In the past, the only thing I could see that may have encouraged them is the fact that I had a wedding ring on. As disconcerting as that may be, there was a notable increase in how often I was approached by women immediately after we got married. I had to take my wedding ring off for a couple weeks at one point due to a finger injury and not once during that time was I hit on. The day I started wearing it again, I had a cashier ask me out. I can’t think of a single behavior on my part that encouraged them, especially the ones I knew beforehand who were fully aware of the fact that I was married. If someone approaches me I’ll be friendly and talk back to them, but it usually takes no more than two sentences before I mention my wife and kids. If I tell someone I’m happily married, I’d hope that’d be taken as a sign of disinterest and not a challenge.

As far as figure drawing classes go, that’s about as sterile an environment as one could hope for. Anyone who envisions a possible romance brewing with a model is either delusional (and I’ve met people like that) or has never taken one. It’s a great learning experience, but is no more titillating than drawing a bowl of fruit.
 
You can analyze this situation all you want, and come up with 35 valid reasons why the friendships are nothing to worry about – but in the end, your wife will still be upset, and there’s only one thing you can do to help her. She’s your wife, and you owe everything to her. Conversely, the other women are not your wives, and you owe nothing to them.

In other words, maybe it’s time to start thinking more about your wife’s feelings and less about the particular details of these friendships.
Amen to that.

Gordon, you sought advice here and the advice you’ve received has been more or less unanimous. I’m speaking bluntly out of love because it’s what you need to hear. PLEASE stop with the 1,001 excuses! A lot of what you’ve said makes sense, and a lot of it I can see your point. But none of that matters. If you truly respect your wife and care about her feelings you will stop offering all these analytical excuses and just DO THIS ONE THING OUT OF CONSIDERATION FOR YOUR WIFE.

You’re coming across as though limiting these friendships and online communications would just be the hardest most impossible thing you could ever do in your life. You’re coming across as though you think staring at other women in your wife’s presence is just as natural as breathing and she’s a hysterical loon for being bothered by it. You’re coming across as a bit of a whiner about it, to be honest. The reality is there are plenty of men and women who limit their friendships and communications with people of the opposite sex out of consideration for their spouses.
 
You’re coming across as though limiting these friendships and online communications would just be the hardest most impossible thing you could ever do in your life. You’re coming across as though you think staring at other women in your wife’s presence is just as natural as breathing and she’s a hysterical loon for being bothered by it. You’re coming across as a bit of a whiner about it, to be honest. The reality is there are plenty of men and women who limit their friendships and communications with people of the opposite sex out of consideration for their spouses.
My biggest concern, though, is that the anger over the friendships is a symptom and not the actual problem. In other words, if I quit talking to each and every person she feels uncomfortable about, we’ll still be left with the mistrust and jealousy. Who will I have to turn my back on then?

Not long after we got married, I started hanging out with a guy friend who I hadn’t seen in a while. His idea of a fun night out was spending 4-5 hours at strip clubs. He was a good friend, he paid for my cover charge and drinks, and we’d mostly just sit at a table and talk all night. After a while, though, I found it to be kind of silly, while he began taking more of an interest in the dancers (he was engaged at the time). My wife knew where the two of us went and appreciated me breaking off the strip club visits with the guy. However, when I got back in touch with a different friend, she didn’t approve of the relationship and insisted I end it due to how the other guy acted.

We went through a long stretch where any time I went out with anyone–friends, family, team meetings for work–it caused a huge fight because she was afraid of what I was doing or who I was with. She would expect me to call her so I could check in and give her my status several times while I was out. I ended up cutting off just about everyone in my life for several months in an effort to sort that out and put it behind us. As a result, we were both more miserable than before.

Instead of heading down a path that would get us back to that state, I’d rather work on improving the situation and having her be happy about the fact that she has a faithful, loving husband and not punish us both over any insecurities or treatment someone else inflicted upon her in the past. I honestly believe that each time I agree to quit talking to someone, it adds fuel to the fire, giving her a reason to think that her suspicions were grounded. Giving into that doesn’t seem to help either of us.
 
you and your wife may want to choose 2 or 3 married couples,preferably with children,to befriend and socialize with.People you both feel comfortable with and that share your values.Friends are important in life.
When you are with these selected friends, be affectionate with your wife, listen to what she says and make her feel relevant.
When you marry you share .Having an independent social life on the side is not advisable, and much less in your particular case.
 
Why is it that you seem to seek relationships with other women on a consistant basis?

Sorry, but you are spending too much time sharing yourself with other women emotionally and intellectually. I would guess if I asked your wife, she would say that a lot of what you are sharing with them is not shared with her or shared in a more intimate way with these others. It is also clear that **you put yourself in situations **that are completely avoidable. Be more honest with yourself about the message you are sending to others- you are likely inviting these “passes”.

I don’t blame your wife for doubting the sincerity of your devotion because your actions aren’t quite on the up and up. It is you and her against the world. These other “friends” are pulling your wholeness away from your marital relationship. We all need outside interests and friends, but I have to tell you that you seem to take it way too far by sharing personal family business with outside female friends. Unacceptable. You may not be cheating in the physical sense, but you are cheating your marriage out of intimacy that should belong to your wife alone. Making friends as a couple with other married couples is a better idea.

My friends- male and female- know instinctively **by the way I carry myself **that I don’t put up with funny business. Does that make sense to you?
 
What is missing in this whole story is your wife’s version.

But in 13 years, you have shown an interest in porn, hung out with bad friends who despite serious relationships with other women attended strip clubs and you went along and watched women who were not your wife dance around. She “appreciated” you breaking off those visits? I promise you, buddy, when your wife was at home with the kids and you were out doing that, she was NOT as “okay” with it as you imply here.

Hence, once you stopped, she was reluctant to let you hang out with other guy friends. Maybe your choice of friends is dubious.

Since we don’t know what your wife’s previous entanglements did to her or what they were like, let me just say as a woman who was with an awful guy for too long, it leaves long-lasting scars. Any verbal abuse she may have suffered, any neglect, any infidelity in a relationship she was faithful in has left her traumatized in a way you cannot begin to understand.

So when you go off and do things that to you are perfectly innocent, it sets off PTSD in her head. That’s my best guess. It’s not rational to you. But it’s like a guy coming back from Iraq who hears an engine backfire and immediately goes into battlestations mode. A civilian just won’t understand.

Apparently your wife loved someone enough to make a baby with him and it ended badly. We don’t know what happened to her, but I suspect the seeds of your problem are in that relationship.

You call it “being punished” for someone else’s behavior. No. I call it you demanding someone who was grievously wounded act like some very deep wounds have healed and she should get over it because you don’t think your actions are hurtful.

Obviously you are poking scars that never healed. And she says ouch and you say she’s unreasonable. Wounds aren’t unreasonable. They’re painful. Instead of asking what you can do to enable you to keep doing what you want to do, maybe you should ask what you can do to help her heal.

Whatever happened to her, she never got over it. It hurt her that deeply.

Would you go up to someone with a sunburn and slap it and say “That shouldn’t hurt!”

From everything you have written here, you are pretty sure because you think you’re honorable that you should be allowed to have all these extra friendships. You sound like you have an awful lot of friendships and online associations and people praying for you for a man with a wife and kids and a job. Where do you find the time?

And for the record, something your wife apparently knows, that a lot of us women know, and you seem either blind to on purpose or by accident: Some women LIKE the wedding ring on a man and they look for cheaters. They want the fun and they don’t care if they hurt another woman to get it. And they want someone who has someone else doing his laundry. Yes, they’re out there. My xh was often approached by women like that. They’d give him their cards and numbers. He acted like he was a victim. Shopgirls, women in stores. Brazen! No man in a store, no plumber, no electrician ever felt free to hand ME their card or call my home to talk to me and suggest there could be anything more than business going on. What IS your body language like to make these women think you’re interested! And don’t tell me you’re not doing anything, because as a woman I KNOW all the stuff the married guys do around women to let them know they’re willing if she is. There is a way you can carry yourself and look at the world around you that lets women know “Don’t even try. He’s not one of those.”

I think you need to really examine just how innocent you really are in all of this, and how wounded your wife is. By saying she’s punishing innocent you for the crimes of others (not those words, but…) you are doing her an injustice. If you gave up all those people and she still was unhappy? Well, then you know the problem isn’t you. Why don’t you give that a try first. Then at least you can tell her you did it her way.

You only have one question. How critical are all those other people to your happiness vs. how critical is your wife to your happiness and a happy marriage to your children’s happiness.

And what kind of people do you hang out with on a regular basis that these women feel free to ask you for a quickie?

Go join a church group, for heaven sakes! Maybe if you and your wife got involved in parish activities as a couple, you’d be able to be friends with people who wouldn’t behave like that.

I mean… look at your friends. Show me who your friends are and I’ll show you who you are. You have friends who attend strip clubs and female associates that throw themselves at married men even with kids. I mean, newlyweds don’t normally all of a sudden go start hanging out at strip clubs with old friends they haven’t seen in a while. And “good friends” don’t take a newlywed man out and pay his covercharge and drinks and get him to spend 5 hours watching other women unclothe themselves.

And when your wife called you to accountability to earn the trust back, did you pout and complain and make it hell for her till you were both miserable?
 
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