Jehova Witness/the Kingdom of God

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Okay. The biblical reference is Revelation 21:1 and following: “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; and I heard a great voice from the throne saying, 'Behold, the dwelling of god is with men. He will dwell with them and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them.” The remainder of chapter 21 and chapter 22 goes on to describe the new heaven more fully. That’s why it is said heaven comes down to earth. “His servants shall see His face…” Rev 22:4. Catholics call this the beatific vision.
 
I hope this helps, Jesseka,

You might have heard people talking about “death” like a catepillar’s cacoon. For instance, a Catepillar fills itself with so much food, tree leaves, then it Metamorphosis into a cacoon breaking its own body or skin and attaching itself onto a leaf, fence, and etcetera.

Consequently, this parable or image is wholesome a good way of describing the death of human beings, since we do not die, we are only metamorphosing, dying to our bodies or, lets call it, dying to our cacoons and hatching ourselves into the spiritual realm. We know that the catepillar will cease to be a catepillar upon receiving its wings. In other words, when the catepillar transforms itself into a colorful butterfly flying around.

Also what we have to focus on, is not so much the images of hell, but the reason why mortal sin separates us from God. This is more important. Here’s a good example: If this is so, that once a person has died they receive a greater awareness of reality, which means, our human brains function around 10% while living on this earth and the other 90 % does nothing. Then upon death a person has a fully matured conscious or awareness at work. Which means that our spirit, our consciousness, our awareness, is functioning for our-very-selves 100 %, not 10%. Well, we begin to see the colors we never saw before death, we begin to see perhaps even radio waves, we even begin to be very very intuitive to the things around us, knowing even the events of the world around us even after death. We have become spiritual because we are spirits. Which means, we do not need to ask why this or why that, because we have become a pure spirit, we’re intuitive, knowing things to its full capacity, since we no longer have an impediment, an obsticle to our consciousness, awarenesses, since we’re nothing but pure spirits.

If this is so, that, once a we have died we wil receive a greater awareness of reality, a greater conscioiusness, or a greater intuitiveness. Thus, in the case of Mortal Sin if at work in the consciousness, in the awareness, while on earth, then it will fix itself in the person, in the soul, it will be a fixed evil or a fixation with evil that has sprouted in the soul, poisoning the consciousness, the soul, to become evil itself, or, better yet, another devil.

Think of it like this, “What you sow will sprout.” Therefore, what we sow in the spirit or, if mortal sin is sown in our spirit, our soul, so, upon death and because we will receive a greater consciousness or a greater awarenesses after death, a greater intuitiveness. Well then, what mortal sin does to us is give us a greater awareness, a greater consciousness, or better yet, the knowledge of evil, an intuitiveness to do evil and know evil. Therefore we begin to be even worse than before. About this Jesus tells us, “To whom is given more, and more will be given to him. But to the one who thinks he has, even that what he thinks he has will be taken away from him.” In other words, their state becomes a lot worse than before, since it is evil itself at work within the soul that has taken over or killed the intuitiveness to love, to do charity, and to be kind. Likewise the soul cannot love anymore because mortal sin, “not venial sin” has killed off love, charity, or the grace of God.

It’s all about consciousness. It’s all about knowing that after death we are given or we will enter into the state of supernatural awareness, consciousness, or a supernatural intuitiveness. So, it is the intuitiveness to do evil while living on this earth which grows and sprouts into something so poisoness, that the person - man or woman - become exactly another devil, a fallen angel after death. As scripture says, “What you sow is what you will reap.” So if somebody sows mortal sin, then, this will grow inside of a person after death, giving them a greater awareness or consciousness to do even more evil. This is where a person ceases to be a person and now has become another devil himself. This is why Jesus said about Judas Iscariot. “Better for that man to never have been born,” since he has become another devil himself. (Read John 6:70-71)
 
mackbrislawn;9273669:
The Jews did not have Revelation to speak of.
No, the Jews don’t have the book of Revelation at all. In fact, it was written fairly late in the Christian apostolic era.

However, the point is, Revelation was written in images that would be understood by the Jewish Christians of that time. Those Jews would understand what the “sea” meant. It would mean the “watery deep.” Or a form of Sheol, just like the Jews of today. After all, Christianity came out of Judaism, and kept many of the Jewish images and practices. The type of apocalyptic literature such as Revelation was common at that time among the Jews.

When you talked to the rabbi, did you learn about current Jewish beliefs in a resurrection? In your description of current Jewish beliefs, the idea of the resurrection of the body seems to be lacking.

That is interesting about early Christian ideas of reincarnation. Of course, for today’s catholic Christians, belief in reincarnation is condemned. That would be true for orthodox Protestants as well.

That secret teachings were passed to a few special people is indeed a Gnostic notion. And I wonder how Jewish beliefs about reincarnation as well as resurrection have evolved over the centuries. Some of the arguments in the links using NT scriptural references to reincarnation seem to me to be a bit forced.

You are right about “another person’s body.” Because that implies another person’s already existing body. I should have said, into a new given body, a body that of a person, or a body that of an animal
 
I’m being visited about 4 times now by a well-informed JW who seems to enjoy my Catholic response to her points. Her next visit will be about what the kingdom of God really means to an individual. From her handout: “Many believe that Jesus died for them. Yet, how can one man’s death almost 2,000 yrs ago mean life for others today?” I gather the Holy Spirit has no place in their faith. How do I respond to her? Scripture to quote?
Thanks,
Yolene
 
I’m being visited about 4 times now by a well-informed JW who seems to enjoy my Catholic response to her points. Her next visit will be about what the kingdom of God really means to an individual. From her handout: “Many believe that Jesus died for them. Yet, how can one man’s death almost 2,000 yrs ago mean life for others today?” I gather the Holy Spirit has no place in their faith. How do I respond to her? Scripture to quote?
Thanks,
Yolene
Well, first of all I am pretty sure that she is just asking you that question because she plans on answering it the next time she comes by. The answers to your questions on this forum are insultingly stupid. It reminds of what Abraham Lincoln used to say, “Better to remain silent and be assumed a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”
The only celebration that JW’s acknowledge is the memorial of Christ’s death so please don’t respond with a stupid answer like, “You don’t believe in Christ!” That will just make Catholics in general look like brainwashed uneducated morons!
Even the Pope acknowledged that what JW’s are doing should be imitated by all Christians.
Ask her why she doesn’t believe in the Trinity, or why she thinks that we should only pray to God instead of all the Saints. Ask her why she doesn’t believe bad people are going to be tormented forever in Hell.
Do some research on your own and if she has any questions for you stand up for your faith and don’t run like a scared little girl. Why should Catholics be afraid to discuss the bible with JW’s or any other religion?
If I couldn’t back up my beliefs from the bible I would be very concerned!!!
 
I hope this helps, Jesseka,

You might have heard people talking about “death” like a catepillar’s cacoon. For instance, a Catepillar fills itself with so much food, tree leaves, then it Metamorphosis into a cacoon breaking its own body or skin and attaching itself onto a leaf, fence, and etcetera.

Consequently, this parable or image is wholesome a good way of describing the death of human beings, since we do not die, we are only metamorphosing, dying to our bodies or, lets call it, dying to our cacoons and hatching ourselves into the spiritual realm. We know that the catepillar will cease to be a catepillar upon receiving its wings. In other words, when the catepillar transforms itself into a colorful butterfly flying around.

Also what we have to focus on, is not so much the images of hell, but the reason why mortal sin separates us from God. This is more important. Here’s a good example: If this is so, that once a person has died they receive a greater awareness of reality, which means, our human brains function around 10% while living on this earth and the other 90 % does nothing. Then upon death a person has a fully matured conscious or awareness at work. Which means that our spirit, our consciousness, our awareness, is functioning for our-very-selves 100 %, not 10%. Well, we begin to see the colors we never saw before death, we begin to see perhaps even radio waves, we even begin to be very very intuitive to the things around us, knowing even the events of the world around us even after death. We have become spiritual because we are spirits. Which means, we do not need to ask why this or why that, because we have become a pure spirit, we’re intuitive, knowing things to its full capacity, since we no longer have an impediment, an obsticle to our consciousness, awarenesses, since we’re nothing but pure spirits.

If this is so, that, once a we have died we wil receive a greater awareness of reality, a greater conscioiusness, or a greater intuitiveness. Thus, in the case of Mortal Sin if at work in the consciousness, in the awareness, while on earth, then it will fix itself in the person, in the soul, it will be a fixed evil or a fixation with evil that has sprouted in the soul, poisoning the consciousness, the soul, to become evil itself, or, better yet, another devil.

Think of it like this, “What you sow will sprout.” Therefore, what we sow in the spirit or, if mortal sin is sown in our spirit, our soul, so, upon death and because we will receive a greater consciousness or a greater awarenesses after death, a greater intuitiveness. Well then, what mortal sin does to us is give us a greater awareness, a greater consciousness, or better yet, the knowledge of evil, an intuitiveness to do evil and know evil. Therefore we begin to be even worse than before. About this Jesus tells us, “To whom is given more, and more will be given to him. But to the one who thinks he has, even that what he thinks he has will be taken away from him.” In other words, their state becomes a lot worse than before, since it is evil itself at work within the soul that has taken over or killed the intuitiveness to love, to do charity, and to be kind. Likewise the soul cannot love anymore because mortal sin, “not venial sin” has killed off love, charity, or the grace of God.

It’s all about consciousness. It’s all about knowing that after death we are given or we will enter into the state of supernatural awareness, consciousness, or a supernatural intuitiveness. So, it is the intuitiveness to do evil while living on this earth which grows and sprouts into something so poisoness, that the person - man or woman - become exactly another devil, a fallen angel after death. As scripture says, “What you sow is what you will reap.” So if somebody sows mortal sin, then, this will grow inside of a person after death, giving them a greater awareness or consciousness to do even more evil. This is where a person ceases to be a person and now has become another devil himself. This is why Jesus said about Judas Iscariot. “Better for that man to never have been born,” since he has become another devil himself. (Read John 6:70-71)
This is actually very beautiful Co-Redeemer and very Buddhist as well. The Buddhist would call it karma, you reap what you sow, but they would add that those who are not “saved” (to use your term" would return to live again either on earth or somewhere else to continue to work out their karma, and somewhere else can be very hellish, but when they have worked out their negtive karma they will begin to ascend again to better earths or realms. This is also what I believe.
 
jessaka;9273825:
No, the Jews don’t have the book of Revelation at all. In fact, it was written fairly late in the Christian apostolic era.

However, the point is, Revelation was written in images that would be understood by the Jewish Christians of that time. Those Jews would understand what the “sea” meant. It would mean the “watery deep.” Or a form of Sheol, just like the Jews of today. After all, Christianity came out of Judaism, and kept many of the Jewish images and practices. The type of apocalyptic literature such as Revelation was common at that time among the Jews.

When you talked to the rabbi, did you learn about current Jewish beliefs in a resurrection? In your description of current Jewish beliefs, the idea of the resurrection of the body seems to be lacking.

That is interesting about early Christian ideas of reincarnation. Of course, for today’s catholic Christians, belief in reincarnation is condemned. That would be true for orthodox Protestants as well.

That secret teachings were passed to a few special people is indeed a Gnostic notion. And I wonder how Jewish beliefs about reincarnation as well as resurrection have evolved over the centuries. Some of the arguments in the links using NT scriptural references to reincarnation seem to me to be a bit forced.

You are right about “another person’s body.” Because that implies another person’s already existing body. I should have said, into a new given body, a body that of a person, or a body that of an animal
He said that they don’t know what will happen after a person dies. They just love God anyway. So that is there or his current belief. It does appear that the belief in the resurrection is lacking, but it appears that Jews have always had different independent views on the afterlife.
 
Well, first of all I am pretty sure that she is just asking you that question because she plans on answering it the next time she comes by. The answers to your questions on this forum are insultingly stupid. It reminds of what Abraham Lincoln used to say, “Better to remain silent and be assumed a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”
The only celebration that JW’s acknowledge is the memorial of Christ’s death so please don’t respond with a stupid answer like, “You don’t believe in Christ!” That will just make Catholics in general look like brainwashed uneducated morons!
Even the Pope acknowledged that what JW’s are doing should be imitated by all Christians.
Ask her why she doesn’t believe in the Trinity, or why she thinks that we should only pray to God instead of all the Saints. Ask her why she doesn’t believe bad people are going to be tormented forever in Hell.
Do some research on your own and if she has any questions for you stand up for your faith and don’t run like a scared little girl. Why should Catholics be afraid to discuss the bible with JW’s or any other religion?
If I couldn’t back up my beliefs from the bible I would be very concerned!!!
I wonder if Yolene is still reading this thread?

My feeling is that I would not engage myself in any conversation with a Jehovah’s Witness because they do practice mind control even though those who are members do not realize this. A great book to read is: Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan. I would suggest she read the book, Crisis of Conscious by Franz. That book is enough to help any person stay away from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Franz was the in the governing body of the JWs, if not the president. He could have been the president. I would also suggest she begin reading posts on this website:

exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/
What I have experienced myself while being on the forum is that it is filled with the most loving people I have ever met, exJWs, who accept people, who never argue, and who are there supporting each other and all are either disfellowshipped or about to be. And so lest of all I would read this website. It is free; the other books cost.

But I do believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are loving people, just that they do not see the suffering they are causing through disfellowhipping others, and we were taught to believe that all who were disfellowshipped were not repentent (as if that mattered), and that they did not suffer. This website says otherwise.
 
Yes, Buddhism is a religion but it isn’t a divinely revealed religion since it has originated from Buddha’s philosophies about life. Yet, when Buddhists mention reincarnation they can’t give any evidence to show their reincarnation has taken place, since they do not have a divinely revealed evidence. For instance, here is a good example: if we were all reincarnated again and again, then why is it that the world is getting worse and worse and not better? I thought the whole process of reincarnation is to better the world, not to make it go from bad to worse as it is today.

Look! I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and true Savior. There is only the one Who has judged himself fittingly to say, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” All the rest meant well, but it’s time to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth, it’s time to worship the Holy Spirit. Besides all that, the Old Testament is filled with the prophecies of Jesus Christ. Psalm 22 is a favourite and it talks about Jesus’ hands and feet being pierced. Or the prophet Micah talks about the place where the Messiah is to be born - Bethlehem. The prophet Isaiah talks about the passion of Christ and his death.

Think about how scriptures from the Old Testament fulfills the New Testament with Jesus Christ.

Also read the lives of Catholic Saints. Read up on Saint Padre Pio who died in 1968 and was truly a prophet and a man filled with the Holy Spirit. This man literally fasted day and night, healed people from incurable illnesses, restled with the devil and built hospitals for the poor and those who suffered much. A true hermit and a true brother of Christ. There’s so many Catholic Saints that non-catholics do not know about and their supernatural experiences with God. What about Saint Andre Besette the Canadian Saint who was known to heal people with incurable illnesses, or, what about Father Aloysius Ellacuria who died in 1981, California, and was truly a prophet, healer, an exorcist, and a nice man. May he rest in peace. Amen.

If you read the lives of Catholic saints and study their supernaturality, their miracles, their supernatural healings, then you will begin to see the Holy Spirit working in your own life. Seriously, there is a God! There is! And his name is Jesus Christ and he established his church as it is known today as “The Catholic Church.” May God bless you!
 
On the first question. No.

So how does one attain heaven?

Second Question: No one wants to go to hell. Why would anyone chose it?

Is it your opinion that everyone wants God in their life? People have been defying the will of God since the world began.
 
Do you think that God is unjust? (Read Romans 9:14-33)
I think people’s ideas of God is that he is a God of judgment, and the Bible is full of ideas that makes him unjust. I do not believe that God is unjust. I do not believe this scripture.
 
I never said that there isn’t a God. I said that God is Love. “The majority of people who have some experience with NDE’s describe pretty much the same scenario; a bright light and an extremely loving presence. Most talk about reviewing their life in a 3 to 4 dimensional capacity. Many say that God is there, but not to judge but simply to love.” This was my own experience as well, before this I was an atheist.
 
I never said that there isn’t a God. I said that God is Love. “The majority of people who have some experience with NDE’s describe pretty much the same scenario; a bright light and an extremely loving presence. Most talk about reviewing their life in a 3 to 4 dimensional capacity. Many say that God is there, but not to judge but simply to love.” This was my own experience as well, before this I was an atheist.
Jessaka, I think you would greatly benefit from reading St Thomas Aquinas and Dr. Peter Kreeft.
 
Why? What would I learn? Because if they believe in a literal hell, I would be wasting my money on something I know is not true due to my own experience, and I cannot change this view because it is deep within. And so at this I must say goodbye and go on my way.
 
Why? What would I learn? Because if they believe in a literal hell, I would be wasting my money on something I know is not true due to my own experience, and I cannot change this view because it is deep within. And so at this I must say goodbye and go on my way.
If God is love, don’t you think that God would need to show his love through justice, and in this way people can see God’s hand at work indirectly through justified men. Suppose the judge said to a rapist or a murderer, “Look! I am love and I don’t want to put you in prison because it isn’t right! It is cruel!” Or suppose you allow these crocodiles to continue to hurt others, then whose fault is it? The judge! because he is a coward and won’t stand up for the innocent and defend their rights. Well, the same applies to human beings. We are called to perform justice for the innocent and in this way God’s justice is served. But suppose somebody allows the innocent to die and allows the murderer to get away. Do you think God’s so stupid enough to allow this man to get off easy? No way! He deserves hell because he didn’t do nor did he show love as God does it. Jesus said, “Be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfecet!” This is a calling to do justice as well, not to be gullible.

The reason why you find it hard to believe in a literal hell is because you are too kind and most likely a female. Nothing against females since my mother is a female, although they are too sensitive and do not know mens heart and most likely you haven’t experienced evil people. You need to taste evil people walking around like Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao, Plutarco Elías Calles, and all other murderers and rapists. And when you begin to lose you loved ones in the process, when you begin to see them tortured and mutelated, and then your blood will boil like Turkish Coffee for God’s justice to be poured on these rodents. I am sincerely telling you. Light and darkness cannot exist together. And good and evil people cannot be placed under the same treatment. There has to be punishment for dogs, such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and all those evil and inconciderate rats who have mauled, killed, pillaged, briganded, and have done other nasty things. Yep, Hell for them, please! The Word of God isn’t a joke. It’s a joke for those who are on the road to the fires of hell, who have heard it but prefer to murder instead of penance; who prefer scandal instead of good deeds. Foolish are they who can’t open up their eyes and see the real reality of evil in this world. Hell exists! Oh, yes! It exists for seriously evil people who are so very evil that they need to receive God’s justice after this life. They need to fry more than a BBQ Chicken in the supermarket. They really need it because they are evil.

Every unjust word that every man has spoken will have to be answered for on the day of Judgement. Then what about murder and scandal?
 
Why? What would I learn? Because if they believe in a literal hell, I would be wasting my money on something I know is not true due to my own experience, and I cannot change this view because it is deep within. And so at this I must say goodbye and go on my way.
Jessaka, your experience cannot be verified until after you leave this world. In the meantime, it’s merely your opinion.

I wish you the peace of Christ and I pray that He grants you the grace needed to see the truth of His word and His Church.
 
**If God is love, don’t you think that God would need to show his love through justice, and in this way people can see God’s hand at work indirectly through justified men. Suppose the judge said to a rapist or a murderer, **“Look! I am love and I don’t want to put you in prison because it isn’t right! It is cruel!” Or suppose you allow these crocodiles to continue to hurt others, then whose fault is it? The judge! because he is a coward and won’t stand up for the innocent and defend their rights. Well, the same applies to human beings. We are called to perform justice for the innocent and in this way God’s justice is served. But suppose somebody allows the innocent to die and allows the murderer to get away. Do you think God’s so stupid enough to allow this man to get off easy? No way! He deserves hell because he didn’t do nor did he show love as God does it. Jesus said, “Be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfecet!” This is a calling to do justice as well, not to be gullible.

By this argument God should be doing that now if he is a God of justice who is going to prevent harm to those who are holy.

The reason why you find it hard to believe in a literal hell is because you are too kind and most likely a female. Nothing against females since my mother is a female, although they are too sensitive and do

The reason I believe this is due to my own experience, not because I am a woman. I have experienced evil people. I never said that there wasn’t a place for those who are evil, I said that you can’t take hell literally; they will not burn forever. And is what is unjust.

not know mens heart and most likely you haven’t experienced evil people. You need to taste evil people walking around like Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao, Plutarco Elías Calles, and all other murderers and rapists. And when you begin to lose you loved ones in the process, when you begin to see them tortured and mutelated, and then your blood will boil like Turkish Coffee for God’s justice to be poured on these rodents. I am sincerely telling you. Light and darkness cannot exist together. And good and evil people cannot be placed under the same treatment. There has to be punishment for dogs, such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and all those evil and inconciderate rats who have mauled, killed, pillaged, briganded, and have done other nasty things. Yep, Hell for them, please! The Word of God isn’t a joke. It’s a joke for those who are on the road to the fires of hell, who have heard it but prefer to murder instead of penance; who prefer scandal instead of good deeds. Foolish are they who can’t open up their eyes and see the real reality of evil in this world. Hell exists! Oh, yes! It exists for seriously evil people who are so very evil that they need to receive God’s justice after this life. They need to fry more than a BBQ Chicken in the supermarket. They really need it because they are evil.

Every unjust word that every man has spoken will have to be answered for on the day of Judgement. Then what about murder and scandal?
 
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