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JeanneH
Guest
The word Christian was first used in Acts 11:26. Acts 26:28 and lastly 1 Peter 4:16
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Jon_Hus
Guest
There are many differences between the Jehovahs Witnesses and Catholics. One of, if not the biggest has to do with Jesus, the Son of God.
Catholics believe (as do protestants) that Jesus, the Son of God is actually God in the flesh.
JWs believe that Jesus is a created being (Michael the Archangel).
If you could prove to a JW that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God in the flesh (which it does), then that would give the Catholic an opening to point out other errors of the Watchtower corp. I think that Catholics make this job much harder on themselves because they say that the priest who is a sinful man, can direct God to manifest himself into the wafer, which is also manufactured by sinful man. JWs correctly believe that God is not taking orders from any man. So you end up with a battle of wills and go no where.
Catholics believe (as do protestants) that Jesus, the Son of God is actually God in the flesh.
JWs believe that Jesus is a created being (Michael the Archangel).
If you could prove to a JW that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God in the flesh (which it does), then that would give the Catholic an opening to point out other errors of the Watchtower corp. I think that Catholics make this job much harder on themselves because they say that the priest who is a sinful man, can direct God to manifest himself into the wafer, which is also manufactured by sinful man. JWs correctly believe that God is not taking orders from any man. So you end up with a battle of wills and go no where.
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Lapey
Guest
Is this realy your understanding of the Eucharist? Do you really believe the priets believes he is telling God what to do??? I’ve never heard that one.
So I believe that God takes orders from a sinner. BTW everyone here on earth and has ever lived and will ever live, except for Jesus and some believe Mary, are sinners. So by your deduction nothing can be holy.
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
Here is a blog article which highlights some of their major difficulties:I made this thread for discussions to refute their claims. For a year running, we (me and my friend) have this occasional debates and i’d need all the help i can get here.
catholicnick.blogspot.com/2009/06/basic-jw-apologetics.html
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thomas_jd
Guest
Ask where thier authority comes from. Is it the bible as written by St. Jerome?I made this thread for discussions to refute their claims. For a year running, we (me and my friend) have this occasional debates and i’d need all the help i can get here.
'You are Peter and upon this rock I build my Church". Ask who produced the bible.
In time you will find that to be a complete stumbling block for them. This will require more info on your part but I know this works.
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Rence
Guest
Originally Posted by thistle
Origin of the words Catholic Church
the name “the Catholic Church” (Greek: katholikos ekklesia) developed from Acts 9:31 “the Church throughout all” (Greek: ekklesia kath olos).
Here’s a copy of the original Greek text:
scripture4all.org/OnlineI…NTpdf/act9.pdf
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Celtic_Catholic
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Catholicism is the original Christian religion. To defend Catholicism IS to defend Christianity.
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Fidei
Guest
not exactly “took” money, but asked for it… It seems this practice is very contrary to JW beliefs that everything is for free–from their magazines to volunteer work, to baptism, etc…
1.Every end of the mass, don’t the priest mention the names of the recently departed? when they say–“Lets pray for the souls of…”? or has mass been varied in diff countries?
2.My JW friend, came across that old lady during their congregation’s preaching work
3.It was just an ordinary Eucharist(see #1 answer), the mass was NOT dedicated to her husband.
I stated “jehovah” as quoted by my friend.
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jw2lds2catholic
Guest
As a former JW (out for 15 years), I’d be happy to offer a JW perspective or what counter-arguments they might pose. Post a topic if you want…
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Fidei
Guest
Can someone explain to me–“the light shines forth from darkness…” forgot the book and verse number… but i understand the WTS use this verse as justification for their changing and shifting beliefs with my friend saying–“God will reveal to us the truth by time”… is that enough for my friend to disregard most of Russel’s teachings? as well as their previous failed prophecies?
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Fidei
Guest
I also have issues regarding their “Jehovah cannot be a triune God” What is their reasoning if John stated that the Word IS God? and that Christ entitles himself as I AM?
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excaliber
Guest
I was born and raised Jehovahs Witness.
Send me a pm if you need help still.
There teaching on the generation of 1914 is probably the most recent Watchtower major mess up. They have had to abandon the teaching COMPLETELY or try to COMPLETELY change the meaning.
There are lots of websites with an arsenal of info.
I think you have to pm me to get them because there non Catholic websites.
Send me a pm if you need help still.
There teaching on the generation of 1914 is probably the most recent Watchtower major mess up. They have had to abandon the teaching COMPLETELY or try to COMPLETELY change the meaning.
There are lots of websites with an arsenal of info.
I think you have to pm me to get them because there non Catholic websites.
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adstrinity
Guest
Wait, what does that have to do with you not being able to post about it on the forum. If it could help others, please post it on the forum.
To the OP, I don’t recall that being said at the end of the Mass. If anything, IF anything, it would be after the consecration. What country are you from?
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excaliber
Guest
Well I thought it was a rule not to post links to non Catholic websites.
I would be more then happy to post the link because it is full of information.
If its ok with the mods.
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Fidei
Guest
I actually have been through a lot of JW info, all articles related to JW in CA–i have read. But is just so happens, that every time when i’m all prepared, they throw something unexpected.
I even invited her to mass once but she never went for it. (yet i attended their district convention when they invited me). typical. She even asked me, While they do preaching work, what does the our church do besides going to mass? I said, we DO preach, but what’s the point of preaching now that almost ALL your neighbors are Catholics?
I even invited her to mass once but she never went for it. (yet i attended their district convention when they invited me). typical. She even asked me, While they do preaching work, what does the our church do besides going to mass? I said, we DO preach, but what’s the point of preaching now that almost ALL your neighbors are Catholics?
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Fidei
Guest
Not the end but after the consecration… I apologize, still new to understanding it FULLY.
Im from the Philippines.
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excaliber
Guest
No Jehovahs witness will accept an invitation to mass. They would be subject to excomunication for going to mass.I actually have been through a lot of JW info, all articles related to JW in CA–i have read. But is just so happens, that every time when i’m all prepared, they throw something unexpected.
I even invited her to mass once but she never went for it. (yet i attended their district convention when they invited me). typical. She even asked me, While they do preaching work, what does the our church do besides going to mass? I said, we DO preach, but what’s the point of preaching now that almost ALL your neighbors are Catholics?
The question about the preaching work is VERY important, its central to JW belief.
You must explain that Catholics do preach and send out misionaries…otherwise a JW won’t even consider the Church.
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adelore
Guest
One thing you might not know about your friends Kingdom hall is that they too take “Offerings” only in a different way. They also have envalopes for people to give “Offerings/Donations” to their church. They at the end of the year get a printout of how much they gave, so they may use this during Income Tax time as a Tax Writeoff.
Instead of having the “Offering” like we do during the service, they have a Wooden/Metal box attached to the wall, complete with small paddle lock on it, which says Offerings/Donations.
They are expected to give 10% of their Gross income to the Kingdom Hall. They also have another box, for donations/Offerings, that go towards the Watch Tower Society in Bethel, N.Y. This I was shown and told when I visited a Kingdom Hall with my friend years ago, was to help pay for the Material, books, magz ect. I don’t know if they are required to “Donate” a certian amount to this box or not.
Since they don’t have One Preacher, but they do have “Brothers, Elders, Decons” who take turns doing the Preaching (Talks) So they don’t have to “Support” a Priest like we do in the Catholic Church. However, from my understanding almost any man in the Kingdom Hall in good standing, who has made it to the level, (can’t remember all their levels now) I know their is Publisher, and then some kind of school, (Thericatic School?) I can’t remember what comes after that, before they can be allowed to “teach” or lead the “Talk” every Sunday. They follow the Watch Tower for their teaching…every week. So they call these teachings, “Talks” not preaching. Pretty much the Watch Tower in NY, has it all laid out what every Kingdom Hall will talk on World Wide. They are to Stick to this…
As far as praying to her dead husband…I really can’t comment on that…I wasn’t there, but I wonder if maybe your friend misunderstood, that just maybe, the lady was trying to explain about our Communion with the Saints.(not to be confused with our weekly Communion, where Jesus is really present.)
Therefore thinking she was praying to her dead husband. Of course we can pray for our deceased friends, and loved ones. She may just not have understood all of this. JW’s do not believe we can pray for our Deceased friends and loved ones. They believe they are asleep in the Grave and know nothing… That is a very hard topic, even with proof from the Bible to explain to them.
So as far as an “Offering” they very much so are required/expected to give one. They just do it a bit different…that’s all.
Instead of having the “Offering” like we do during the service, they have a Wooden/Metal box attached to the wall, complete with small paddle lock on it, which says Offerings/Donations.
They are expected to give 10% of their Gross income to the Kingdom Hall. They also have another box, for donations/Offerings, that go towards the Watch Tower Society in Bethel, N.Y. This I was shown and told when I visited a Kingdom Hall with my friend years ago, was to help pay for the Material, books, magz ect. I don’t know if they are required to “Donate” a certian amount to this box or not.
Since they don’t have One Preacher, but they do have “Brothers, Elders, Decons” who take turns doing the Preaching (Talks) So they don’t have to “Support” a Priest like we do in the Catholic Church. However, from my understanding almost any man in the Kingdom Hall in good standing, who has made it to the level, (can’t remember all their levels now) I know their is Publisher, and then some kind of school, (Thericatic School?) I can’t remember what comes after that, before they can be allowed to “teach” or lead the “Talk” every Sunday. They follow the Watch Tower for their teaching…every week. So they call these teachings, “Talks” not preaching. Pretty much the Watch Tower in NY, has it all laid out what every Kingdom Hall will talk on World Wide. They are to Stick to this…
As far as praying to her dead husband…I really can’t comment on that…I wasn’t there, but I wonder if maybe your friend misunderstood, that just maybe, the lady was trying to explain about our Communion with the Saints.(not to be confused with our weekly Communion, where Jesus is really present.)
Therefore thinking she was praying to her dead husband. Of course we can pray for our deceased friends, and loved ones. She may just not have understood all of this. JW’s do not believe we can pray for our Deceased friends and loved ones. They believe they are asleep in the Grave and know nothing… That is a very hard topic, even with proof from the Bible to explain to them.
So as far as an “Offering” they very much so are required/expected to give one. They just do it a bit different…that’s all.
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Regardless
Guest
Hi Fidei,
Did you say you went to a convention? You would have noticed the Bible was used constantly. The Watchtower articles constantly quote the Bible to explain or confirm things. (Using various translations freely – before anyone claims we only use the NWT)
The witnesses won’t be very interested in catholic literature, just as they won’t be too interested in what Russel believed 100 years ago or what early WT articles understood.
Only what the Bible really says.
The WT is not inspired by God, nor was Russel a prophet.
The Bible is God’s word. ***Jesus said: “Your word is truth.” ***(John 17:17) The Bible is the foundation.
It seems a common misunderstanding that we believe things because “the WT said…” or “Russel said…”
Hence, I often hear people trying to discredit these, assuming this will erode our faith. They must think that is the basis of our beliefs. Not so.
For example, if you ask a witness: “Why don’t you believe God is a trinity?” The answer will not be: “Because Charles Taze Russel didn’t believe so” or “Because the WT says.”.
The answer will be “Because the Bible says…”
They will have studied the Bible, probably for years, and are now totally convinced the Trinity is not what it teaches. It should be the same for most subjects of difference.
I hope this helps with your discussions. All the best.
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T_More
Guest
I mean the above quotes in all kindness.Hi Fidei,
Did you say you went to a convention? You would have noticed the Bible was used constantly. The Watchtower articles constantly quote the Bible to explain or confirm things. (Using various translations freely – before anyone claims we only use the NWT)
Regardless, I say this in all humility, but…various translations are notused freely. Onlythe NWT is used during meetings, assemblies and conventions. If they didn’t, they’d be disproving their own doctrine (see John 1)
The witnesses won’t be very interested in catholic literature, just as they won’t be too interested in what Russel believed 100 years ago or what early WT articles understood.
Of course they wouldn’t be interested in Russell’s teachings or old WTS articles. In most cases, they teach the total opposite of what the WTS teaches today.
Only what the Bible really says.
The WT is not inspired by God, nor was Russel a prophet.
**“Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. They can read the Holy Scriptures, but they cannot understand their deep meaning. Yet God’s people can comprehend such spiritual things. Why? Not because of special intelligence on their part, but as the apostle Paul declared: “For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.”” Watchtower 1973 July 1 p.402
“The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man’s opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God’s organization.” Watchtower 1931 Nov. 1 p.327
“It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.” Watchtower 1957 June 15 p.370
…there are many, many more…
And I agree, Russell, is no prophet. The man never got one prediction right. Rutherford didn’t either (see Millions Now Living Will Never Die).
**
The Bible is God’s word. ***Jesus said: “Your word is truth.” ***(John 17:17) The Bible is the foundation.
It seems a common misunderstanding that we believe things because “the WT said…” or “Russel said…”
Hence, I often hear people trying to discredit these, assuming this will erode our faith. They must think that is the basis of our beliefs. Not so.
For example, if you ask a witness: “Why don’t you believe God is a trinity?” The answer will not be: “Because Charles Taze Russel didn’t believe so” or “Because the WT says.”.
The answer will be “Because the Bible says…”
Again, the WTS’s bible, the NWT. Hence the reason they had to come up with their version. Their previous version, the American Standard (as well as the KJV) refuted much of what they teached. This obviously would create a bit of a problem when going door to door when some they would come across some who would be using the same bible and refute what they were saying. Think about it. What other reason would you need to come up with own version?
They will have studied the Bible, probably for years, and are now totally convinced the Trinity is not what it teaches. It should be the same for most subjects of difference.
This is true, if your using your own version. Does anyoneoutside the WTS use the NWT? No.
I hope this helps with your discussions. All the best.
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