Jehovah's Witnesses

[T_More]

Thanks, Vasian. As usual, great posts by you.

 

[Vasian]

Thanks, Vasian. As usual, great posts by you.

Howdy, T More, and thank you:thumbsup:

 

[Cides28]

Howdy, T More, and thank you:thumbsup:

wow you guys are cool!!! and pray for me i’m doing a fast today for my purification - i’ve struggled in the pass with lust and it put a mark on my marriage, my wife a saint forgave and just prayed for me. i’m feeling good and but the affect of years (i’m only 30) of impurity tampered my mind set. so i’m doing a fast from a website Ephesian5men.com so just ask for your prayers because I’M HUNGRY. LOL

GOD BLESS all,

 

[Vasian]

wow you guys are cool!!! and pray for me i’m doing a fast today for my purification - i’ve struggled in the pass with lust and it put a mark on my marriage, my wife a saint forgave and just prayed for me. i’m feeling good and but the affect of years (i’m only 30) of impurity tampered my mind set. so i’m doing a fast from a website Ephesian5men.com so just ask for your prayers because I’M HUNGRY. LOL

GOD BLESS all,

Cides, God Bless You and for sure we will pray for you:thumbsup:
You are not alone in your fight, and your fight is a common one for Christians.
Remember what the Apostle Paul said? “What I want to do, I do not, and what I do not want to do, I do…”
“I pummel my body and lead it as a slave…”
Even Paul sinned daily and struggled everyday with sin as we all do!

 

[Cides28]

Cides, God Bless You and for sure we will pray for you:thumbsup:
You are not alone in your fight, and your fight is a common one for Christians.
Remember what the Apostle Paul said? “What I want to do, I do not, and what I do not want to do, I do…”
“I pummel my body and lead it as a slave…”
Even Paul sinned daily and struggled everyday with sin as we all do!

thanks!!! brother!!! how funny you quote Paul from Romans, i have to keep reading that when i feel myself wanting to fall. My confessor said to just keep reading it… i’m happy i don’t fall as often as i used to, praise GOD…

but thanks for the encouraging words, now i know i have brothers out there encouraging me knowing the same struggles…

thanks GOD BLESS!!! St Paul pray for us!!! thank you Paul for your witness knowing you ran the good race and is now with our Risen Lord…

thanks Vasian peace n GOd bless, all i’ have to get back to work!!! =)

 

[Vasian]

Here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6496059#post6496059

 

[Vasian]

watchtowerdocuments.com/

The Watch Tower Corporation has changed its charter many times during its existence and also has created more than a handful of affiliated corporations to carry on its purpose. But most recently, these corporations have found themselves embroiled in lawsuits, notably nine child sexual abuse lawsuits which Watch Tower secretly settled out-of-court in February 2007. Important court documents from these lawsuits can be obtained through this website.

Watch Tower historical documents found listed here, for the most part, can be downloaded or copied (printed) without charge. However, other very important documents which were expensive to obtain and complicated to compile can be obtained for a fee. For those, purchase information is provided.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

The Pope does not claim to be God’s prophet on Earth.

It doesn’t matter if I think the Governing Body can be trusted… God told us how we know if they can be trusted. In the book of Deut. Chapter 19 God tells us if what they claim doesn’t happen, they are false prophets.

And how many times have the Governing Body got it right? Zero. Every single thing they have claimed would happen, hasn’t. Do a search of “false Jehovah’s Witness prophecies” and literally pages & pages will come up. They are false prophets. And if you’re about to claim that they aren’t “prophets” you’re wrong. THEY claim to be God’s spokesman on Earth… Jehovah’s mouthpiece. The Governing Body claim to be God’s annointed giving out the proper food at the proper time. Only as time passes you realize it WASN’T the proper food at all.

As a Catholic I can read what the Earliest Christians believed… those who were taught by the apostles and my views are the same. They haven’t changed. JW’s can’t even read what was written 20 years ago. Foundational “truths” have changed. "This generation shall not pass away… "

So I wouldn’t put too much stock into what you’re learning from the JW’s in your studies today. In 20 years it will all be outdated as the “light gets brighter.”

Thanks, yellowbird, for your succinct reply to new.

To TMore and Vasian: the information and counsel you give as former JWs on this and other threads is invaluable – I pray long time Witnesses and JW candidates like new heed your counsel.

If they would just pause to 1) examine the (lack of) authority they mistakenly rely on; 2) read up on the verifiable history of the CC and ECFs!

It must be scary for someone to find out, after being a fervent follower for years, that he embraced a religion based on untruths. While our family is having a banquet, our JW siblings are starving in a spiritual concentration camp. Until they break free from the yoke that Watchtower put around their necks, they place their eternal life at peril.

Indeed a tragedy and irony for those whose rapt minds are filled with thoughts on the end times. How ironic and tragic when they find out they are to be separated in the end from the sheep, or bundled together as tares, to be thrown to …

 

[Vasian]

In considering that “God IS Love”, that actual epitome of Love, I believe that even many JW’s will be saved in the end, and many who have already passed on are in God’s grace as well.
I believe this about many in the various religions of Christendom.
“Only God knows the heart”. I believe this in its whole.
As far as those in the lead in these various religions? Well… That is a horse of a different color.

 

[raqrodriguez]

Thanks, Vasian. As usual, great posts by you.

I agree. I love reading Vasian’s posts!!!

 

[Fidei]

does anyone here know a good site for criticisms or commentaries from actual greek scholars for the NWT? or specifically the phrase “the word was A god”??

 

[Vasian]

does anyone here know a good site for criticisms or commentaries from actual greek scholars for the NWT? or specifically the phrase “the word was A god”??

Yes.
Start here: ntgreek.org/books/grambook.htm#Wallace

And here: ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

“Beyond The Basics” by Daniel Wallace, devotes fifteen pages to that scripture.

NO ONE can refute Wallace’s scholarship… No one!

 

[T_More]

youtube.com/watch?v=NS5KgDdtVHY

This is a video of Dr. Mantey, a scholar who they misquoted in trying to lend credence to their bible. Make sure you read the text in this.

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Vasian;6495796]Stumbling Blocks
**
Few people aware of the above information prior to baptism convert to being Jehovah’s Witnesses**. Once you leave it becomes difficult to comprehend how you could ever have been convinced that the Watchtower teaches truth. Just a small amount of research will uncover that;[/SIGN]

I have something to say to everyone, but, not to Vasian or T More.

(1 John 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

(2 John 8-11) . . … 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

Mathew 24:48,49…BACK LATER

 

[T_More]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Vasian;6495796]Stumbling Blocks
**
Few people aware of the above information prior to baptism convert to being Jehovah’s Witnesses**. Once you leave it becomes difficult to comprehend how you could ever have been convinced that the Watchtower teaches truth. Just a small amount of research will uncover that;[/SIGN]

I have something to say to everyone, but, not to Vasian…

(1 John 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

(2 John 8-11) . . … 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

Mathew 24:48,49…BACK LATER

This would seem to apply to Protestant/Hyper Protestant religions such as the WTS that broke off from the original Church. Did that ever occur to you?

 

[T_More]

I see you went back to include me in your exclusion. Dave, I mean this in all kindness, you lose all credibility when you choose NOT to engage former JW’s on these threads. You and I both know the reasons why, you’re “not allowed” to engage with ones “who have turned their back on God’s organization.” You evade tough questions about your own religion and try to “shock and awe” everyone with WTS quotes or scripture that you just cited without it ever occuring to you that this is talking about early heretics and eventually religions like the WTS.

Answer a simple question, Dave. From where did Russell, the founder of the Watchtower, obtain the authority to interpret the scriptures the way he did?

 

[jlhargus]

Now please, let us go back on topic.

JL: I notice you do not list your faith group. Do you belong to one of the many split offs of Hubert Armstrong’s Worldwide Chruch of God?

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]

I see you went back to include me in your exclusion. Dave, I mean this in all kindness, you lose all credibility when you choose NOT to engage former JW’s on these threads. You and I both know the reasons why, you’re “not allowed” to engage with ones “who have turned their back on God’s organization.” You evade tough questions about your own religion and try to “shock and awe” everyone with WTS quotes or scripture that you just cited without it ever occuring to you that this is talking about early heretics and eventually religions like the WTS.

Answer a simple question, Dave. From where did Russell, the founder of the Watchtower, obtain the authority to interpret the scriptures the way he did?

[/SIGN]

Whether you people believe it or not…The light DOES get brighter.

Listen everybody, I am not addressing any X-JWs, I am merely using this space to defend our stand (More on this later at the end of my posts)

Now…Jehovah’s Witnesses are a human organization made up of imperfect humans. We are all being tested as we approach the end. As the light gets brighter IN UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE. Prov 4:18…, person’s hearts are being examined. Heb 4:12…Just as Jesus wanted to thin out the crowds following him, he spoke about ‘eating his flesh and drinking his blood’. Instead of his followers saying “now I know this man, he would not ask us to go against the Mosaic Law Lev 17:14…so he must mean…” --instead many walked away at the opportunity.

Did you know that Jesus said that in the middle of a Synagogue? John 6:59. Notice too vs 64 “But there are some of YOU that do not believe.” For from [the] beginning Jesus knew who were the ones not believing and who was the one that would betray him.” Many were following him for the wrong selfish reasons. (John 6:26-27) . . .Jesus answered them and said: “Most truly I say to YOU, YOU are looking for me, not because YOU saw signs, but because YOU ate from the loaves and were satisfied. 27. . .
(And yes, we believe it was an illustration not an actual command. See Mathew 13: 34 –we do not force anyone to believe different.)

Do you really think that Jesus expected them to just believe him? After 2,300 years of God’s view on blood? Gen 9:4…even the Apostles were a little doubtful. But they took into account Jesus’ other teachings. “sayings of everlasting life”

IT was asked WHY was the “true knowledge suddenly ‘found’ at the beginning of the 20th century. Notice.
(Daniel 12:3-4) “And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever. 4 “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. (not the end of the Jewish Nation in the first century) Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”

That ‘roving about’ was in the Bible looking for the true knowledge. It was time for the fulfillment of that prophecy.

Russell and later others wanted to know where the Bible teaches

1.        Where the expression or teaching of immortal soul is in the Bible?

2. Where the Bible teaches Purgatory: Hellfire: compare Jere 7:31
3. Contraception:–that every act of sexual union MUST be open to giving life;
4. Where it was Okay to adapt Pagan rites and sanctify them into the church. Compare 2 Cor 6:14, 15, religionstinks.xanga.com/669573192/item/17
5. Where is states that it is okay to pray to saints when the Bible calls Jehovah the “Hearer of prayer” Ps 65:.
6. Mary was Sinless and was raised bodily without dying;
7. Infant Baptisms. “Households”? compare (1 Samuel 1:21-22) 21 In time the man El•ka′nah went up with all his household to sacrifice to Jehovah the yearly sacrifice and his vow offering. 22 As for Han′nah, she did not go up, for she had said to her husband: “As soon as the boy is weaned, I must bring him, and he must appear before Jehovah and dwell there to time indefinite
   **Compare also:
   it-1 p. 251 Baptism **
   In view of the fact that ‘hearing the word,’ ‘embracing the word heartily,’ and ‘repenting’ precede water baptism (Ac 2:14, 22, 38, 41) and that baptism requires the individual to make a solemn decision, it is apparent that one must at least be of age to hear, to believe, and to make this decision. An argument is made by some in favor of infant baptism. They refer to the instances where ‘households’ were baptized, such as the households of Cornelius, Lydia, the Philippian jailer, Crispus, and Stephanas. (Ac 10:48; 11:14; 16:15, 32-34; 18:8; 1Co 1:16) They believe that this implies that small babies in those families were also baptized. But, in the case of Cornelius, those who were baptized were those who had heard the word and received the holy spirit, and they spoke in tongues and glorified God; these things could not apply to infants. (Ac 10:44-46) Lydia was “a worshiper of God, . . . and Jehovah opened her heart wide to pay attention to the things being spoken by Paul.” (Ac 16:14) The Philippian jailer had to “believe on the Lord Jesus,” and this implies that the others in his family also had to believe in order to be baptized. (Ac 16:31-34) “Crispus the presiding officer of the synagogue became a believer in the Lord, and so did all his household.” (Ac 18:8) All of this demonstrates that associated with baptism were such things as hearing, believing, and glorifying God, things infants cannot do. At Samaria when they heard and believed “the good news of the kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, they proceeded to be baptized.” Here the Scriptural record specifies that the ones baptized were, not infants, but “men and women.”—Ac 8:12.

….And many more very sincere questions

Continued

 

[yellowbird]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Whether you people believe it or not…The light DOES get brighter.

dj dave,
Russell believed that he was the faithful slave whom Jehovah appointed over all things, correct? He “founded” the group now known as the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The question becomes if he were the faithful slave whom God appointed why in the world didn’t God, through His Holy Spirit give him the proper information to dispense? Surely God has that ability, doesn’t He? Yet JWs would have us believe that God used Russell to give totally WRONG information. This is what Russell believed and taught:

The Last Days began 1799
Jesus started ruling in heaven in 1878
The Gentile Times would end in 1914, resulting in:
End of Armageddon
The fall of false religion
The end of all governments
The resurrection
Paradise on earth

What sort of spokesman is THAT? He got is all wrong. And this is the funny part - the WT Society KNOWS he got it all wrong because they’ve since rejected practically everything he believed. Or are they still counting Pyramid steps?

And not only have they rejected what God’s “faithful slave” believed 120 years ago, they’ve since rejected what the faithful slaves believed 50 years ago. Things about vaccinations & organ transplants and the much publicized “this generation will not pass away” (sorta hard not to since they did indeed pass away.) Why were Jehovhah’s “faithful slaves” soooo very wrong? Wasn’t Jehovah paying attention to what “His Organization” was saying? And in the case of vaccinations and organ transplants, sooooo wrong that it cost people their very lives? How sad that so many children died because their parents refused sound medical advice and instead listened to the counsel of “Jehovah’s Organization.”

WHY would God allow that wrong information and confusion? The answer becomes obvious… He had nothing to do with it.

 

[dj_dave]

dj dave; continued…

It wasn’t going to be complete “knowledge” and perfect understanding right away. It was going to be progressive understanding. Ask yourselves: what do you think is meant by Prov 4:18?
Frankly, every time the ‘light got brighter’ 4 people would leave the organization but 20 would join.
I also laughed at Rutherford building a house to welcome back David. But, I also said “bless his dear heart”
Do you know that we DO intend to build David a house before the resurrection begins? Noah, and Moses and many others too!

He was just off because they were so interested in dates back then. We gradually learned and accepted that “NO ONE will know the day or hour. As for all the changes in our understanding—if you read the Scriptural REASONS we supply, you will clearly understand WHY we made changes our understanding. It cannot be refuted as to WHY we made the changes… With an increase of knowledge, there must be a change in thinking sometimes. Which in many ways “did a refining work” compare Dan 11:34, 35.

I want you all to see a small example of how Jehovah progressively reveals his purpose to his servants. (Actually so does the Catholic Church …Mary’s assumption; Limbo: ect)

w97 6/1 p. 16 A Secret Christians Dare Not Keep!
A “Sacred Secret” Progressively Revealed
□ After 4026 B.C.E.: God promises to raise up a Seed to destroy Satan.—Genesis 3:15
□ 1943 B.C.E.: The Abrahamic covenant is validated, promising that the Seed will come through Abraham.—Genesis 12:1-7
□ 1918 B.C.E.: Birth of Isaac as heir to the covenant.—Genesis 17:19; 21:1-5
□ c. 1781 B.C.E.: Jehovah confirms that the Seed will come through Isaac’s son Jacob.—Genesis 28:10-15
□ 1711 B.C.E.: Jacob indicates that the Seed will come through his son Judah.—Genesis 49:10
□ 1070-1038 B.C.E.: King David learns that the Seed will be his descendant and will rule forever as King.—2 Samuel 7:13-16; Psalm 89:35, 36
□ 29-33 C.E.: Jesus is identified as the Seed, the Messiah, the future judge, and the King-Designate.—John 1:17; 4:25, 26; Acts 10:42, 43; 2 Corinthians 1:20; 1 Timothy 3:16
□ Jesus reveals that he will have fellow rulers and judges, that the heavenly Kingdom will have earthly subjects, and that all his followers are to be Kingdom preachers.—Matthew 5:3-5; 6:10; 28:19, 20; Luke 10:1-9; 12:32; 22:29, 30; John 10:16; 14:2, 3
□ Jesus reveals that the Kingdom will be established at a definite time, as corroborated by world events.—Matthew 24:3-22; Luke 21:24
□ 36 C.E.: Peter learns that non-Jews will also be Kingdom joint heirs.—Acts 10:30-48
□ 55 C.E.: Paul explains that the Kingdom joint heirs will be resurrected to immortality and incorruption during Christ’s presence.—1 Corinthians 15:51-54
□ 96 C.E.: Jesus, already ruling over his anointed followers, reveals that their final number will be 144,000.—Ephesians 5:32; Colossians 1:13-20; Revelation 1:1; 14:1-3

AND what about the Serpant being SATAN in Gen 3? We didn’t know for sure until Rev 12?

Hear are just a few changes in understanding that certain ones did not want to accept:
We banished:

Gambling ( Isa. 65:11)—many left because of that.
Blood transfusions—Acts 15: 28, 29–many left because of that. (BTW-over 400 hospitals now operating w/o blood) FYI Blood is a multi-billion dollar business just in the US alone
Smoking 1 Cor.7:1—many left because of that.
Holidays with unchristian origins-2 Cor 6:14, 15, 17 many left because of that
Disfellowshipping for Fornication and other practices of Unchristian conduct - many left for that
(See: help for those who have disfellowshiped relatives: w83 1/1 30-31)

Bible examples of those who have been disfellowshiped w83 2/1 11; w82 4/1 17-18; w81 9/15 21; w65 144-145; w64 272, 434; w63 405; w62 534-535; w61 435; w59 171; w58 210; w54 591; w52 135-137; w44 153

NOW. Yellowbird’s favorite comment: “they claim to be Jehovah’s mouthpiece!” If a person was to only read that comment from the article-- –they would believe we are calming to be Prohpets…BUT if you were a regular reader of the watchtower you would understand without any doubt that Witnesses are not claiming to be “Prophets” foretellers of the future, rather, that they have a commission to preach the ”Good news of the Kingdom” nothing more. NOT prophecy! Matthew 24:14; 2 Tim 4:3-5

As I have stated before the following links are enough to show the TRUE understandings on OUR teachings. Accept or reject the following links –I don’t care. I have a strong feeling not many of you will take the time to read the lengthy explanations of these many subjects including so-called “Scholars” quoted out of context. Remember: We wrote a Book on Creation vs. Evolution supporting our view using quotes that were taking from 100’s‘ of evolutionists’.

web.archive.org/web/20031204162016/mysite.freeserve.com/newworldtranslation/pageindex.htm

primitivechristians.com/Bible-Files/opposers.htm

web.archive.org/web/20031212165947/mysite.freeserve.com/newworldtranslation/minorcriticisms_pages.htm
primitivechristians.com/Bible-Files/index.htm

jehovah.to/xlation/fp.html

vindication.xanga.com/649437175/item/

Are you all being misled by the CC? Is “Catholic Answers” just a money making “Bookstore” for all the so-called Book writers because they have such a large group of paying ‘customers’?? Eccl. 12:12

I won’t say one way or the other. But, all in all, I have to wonder with such a large group how can they apply Matt 7:13, 14

Conclusion next…