Jesuit Superior General: Satan is a Symbolic Reality.’

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Catholic25 said:
Father Sosa is no heretic, and it’s absolutely inappropriate to call him such, or to call his teachings heretical.
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What do you call denying a basic teaching of the Church? The Catechism tells us Satan is real, not just a symbol. Pope Francis says Satan is real.
 
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I read the article linked in the first piece , the one that reports on what the Jesuit said, and no where in that article does it say he does not believe the devil is real. Another member posted the entire transcript on either this or the other thread, and no where there does it say he does not believe in the devil.

In fact, it reads the opposite
 
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It Doesn’t Matter.

He’s been corrected concerning his confusing statements on the subject.
 
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Let’s talk about obedience and Jesuits. It is sosa who owes obedience to the Pope and the Church. And the pope directly addresses the personhood of the devil. Perhaps Sosa is unaware of the Church’s position on the devil or perhaps he is unaware of what the Pope says. Maybe someone in the order could pull him aside and tell him.
 
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Sosa rejects the personhood of the devil. Francis affirms the personhood of the devil. If you read the statements they contradict.
 
Fr Sosa said: Symbols are part of reality, and the devil exists as a symbolic reality, not as a personal reality.

How do you interpret this statement?
 
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I’ll say this. For someone who’s merely a symbol, he’s surely done a bang up job of totally screwing up ole planet earth, that’s for dang sure. 😉
 
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He said the devil is a ‘symbolic’ reality.

I don’t know about you, but most people see a difference in a ‘symbolic reality’ as opposed to a ‘literal’ reality, because a LITERAL thing is the thing itself --in this case, Satan; a ‘symbol’ therefore is NOT the actual thing itself but some other thing, concept, idea, etc. which represents the ACTUAL thing. according to the Pope, the catechism, etc. Satan is a literal REAL BEING; he is not a ‘symbol’ of a Real Thing (apparently per Fr. Sosa ‘evil’ is a reality, which we can agree with, but he believes that ‘the devil’ is merely a naming of a ‘symbol’ which represents the evil, not the evil itself).

And that would be inconsistent with Catholic teaching.
 
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Annie said:
Fr Sosa said: Symbols are part of reality, and the devil exists as a symbolic reality, not as a personal reality.

How do you interpret this statement?
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by reading the paragraph thst is taken from, which is copied into either this or the other thread.
 
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Well, I read the paragraph, and I went to Il Tempi and looked at it and copied it and translated it online and looked at it, and what I understand from it is that he never says the devil exists.

It seems to me that he is giving St Ignatius’s idea of “the evil spirit” in spiritual discernment as his sole idea of the devil, and denying the idea of the devil as a person (in the sense that angels are persons), as when he says “because [the devil] is not a person, [the devil] is a way of acting evil” (which idea he repeats), and “the devil exists as a symbolic reality, not as a personal reality.”

I am not sure how you get a different interpretation out of the paragraph.
 
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There is a point that should be made here. We are NOT dualists. We do not believe in a “good” God and a “bad” God. In Revelation, John pictures a war between good and evil – but depicts the evil as HUMAN evil, not supernatural.

Therefore it is reasonable to say that evil is human – WE are the devil.
 
Catholic25, I’m still waiting for you to explain why this particular situation with this particular priest is so important to you that you have posted multiple times in this thread (even though there is not much of substance, and several wrong statements, in your posts) and are not posting in any other thread on the forum or starting any other threads.
 
No, that’s not quite accurate and a result of cherry picking scripture. We are told that there is a devil, a ‘real’ being. This being earth, the ones who are corrupted by the devil would, of course, be humans who commit said evil, right?

I think the catechism has been quoted extensively. Catholics do not believe in a ‘symbol of evil’; we believe in a literal, real being who tempts humans to evil.

Or was Jesus tempted in the desert by a human being?
Or simply by a ‘symbol’ of evil?
 
JimG said:
The superior general of the Society of Jesus said Aug. 21 that the devil is a symbol, but not a person.
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That makes sense since it is in-line with Judaism, the beliefs of Jesus Christ.

"Judaism does not view “Satan” with the same connotation as other religions.

Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God.

Throughout the Torah, Satan challenges God to test the true loyalty of his followers, including Adam and Eve, as well as Abraham. However, Satan remains inferior to God and is incapable of taking action on mortals without God’s permission. In the Talmud and Midrash, Satan appears as the force in the world, responsible for all sins. Some Midrashim claim that the sounding of the Shofar on Rosh Hashanah is utilized to keep Satan away as Jews begin to atone for their sins. Even the morning after Yom Kippur, many Jews attend services to guarantee Satan does not make one last effort to instigate Jews to commit sins."

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/satan

The Judaic concept of Satan as the “tempter”, “accuser”, or “hinderer” is what Jesus believed Satan to be. The temptation of Christ is a perfect example along with the moment Christ told Peter to “get behind me Satan”.

Another interesting source:
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satan

Abaddon “place of destruction” referring to the name “Gehenna” in the Jewish Talmud, the bottomless pit in the NT, and the personification of the bottomless pit as the angel Apollyon in Greek.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/abaddon
 
The craziest thing about this thread is what I have found in my research. I did a short stint as a new age pagan (in the late 80’s) a few years before I stepped foot into a Catholic church for the second time in my life. In my new age wanderings I came across this Abaddon/Apollyon thingy and it was not very nice and part of the reason i departed from the new age movement.

Tonight, I learned that the proof verse of “Abaddon” is Psalm 88:12. Posters who know my backstory are aware that I say that I lost my ability to believe in a moment, like my belief evaporated and that “God left me”. Here’s where life gets strange. Reading through Psalm 88, the final few verses of that chapter have the people crying out:

88:12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

88:13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.

88:14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?

88:15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.

88:16 Thy fierce wrath goeth over me; thy terrors have cut me off.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/tehillim-psalms-chapter-88

Now I’m sitting here wondering what is really up?
Earlier today I was telling one of my adult children that I plan on taking my youngest child to Mass at the parish where I was brought into the Catholic Faith. (Baby of the family is elementary school age and a practicing Catholic). During that conversation, my adult kiddo let me know that he and his wife will be renting a room with a retiree until their permanent housing is move-in ready. The retiree happens to be a member of the very parish where I joined the Church.
 
While we do not believe in a good God and another evil deity of some sort, we do believe in the devil, a fallen angel.

So devils are created beings, not on the same level as God by any means, but still “persons” just as good angels are.
 
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