Jesuit Superior General: Satan is a Symbolic Reality.’

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Just in case I misheard you–entirely possible–I would like to say that certainly we can CHOOSE evil. We can cooperate with evil.
 
Yes, indeed we can. This is in keeping with Pope Francis’ teaching – God doesn’t send us to Hell, we send ourselves,
 
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Yes – but we know little about angels. For example, “angel” is an occupation or office, not a species. The word means “messenger.”
 
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We don’t know what Christ was tempted by – except by a “tempter.”

There is a big difference between the CONCEPT of a devil and the REALITY. None of us can know the reality. Is a devil merely an occupation or office (like an angel) or is it a separate being?
 
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vern_humphrey said:
There is a point that should be made here. We are NOT dualists. We do not believe in a “good” God and a “bad” God. In Revelation, John pictures a war between good and evil – but depicts the evil as HUMAN evil, not supernatural.

Therefore it is reasonable to say that evil is human – WE are the devil.
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The Catechism (CCC 391) disagrees with you there.
II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

[391] Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268
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I’ll trust the ordinary Magisterium and the catechism, if you don’t mind. So long as you’re in line with accepting that the devil is a literal, real being as taught by the Church from the get-go, you can have as much fun with word etymology and pondering on which came first, the angels or their occupations (although you know that angel is the ‘bottom rung’ of the 9 ranks). And remember, Pope Francis himself stated the devil was real, not ‘a concept’ and not a ‘symbol’.
 
My dear Tis_Bearself please dont judge/question Catholic25’s motivations. Only God knows what is in his/her heart and we should always assume the best, not the bad. Apart from that I enjoy reading your posts alot.🙂
 
While I appreciate that you are probably trying to be charitable, this is a self-moderating forum and we have a considerable problem here with troll posters. There’s probably been at least a half-dozen trolls show up here as new posters in the past week alone; most of them have already been banned by the moderators.

A poster who shows up out of the blue, posts very brief and controversial and even some flat-out wrong (in view of Catholic teaching) statements with zero background in one thread only, does not participate in the forum other than that and does not respond to direct queries, is going to leave an impression of not posting in good faith.

Since Catholic25 is a new poster I have been frank and somewhat kind in stating this flat out on the thread rather than just flagging all of their posts. Unfortunately, when someone is frank on this forum, it is bound to draw remonstrances or even flags from other posters. This is one reason why people just anonymously flag instead of attempting to have a discussion about perceived issues with someone else’s posts.

if Catholic25 is planning to continue here as a poster, it would be helpful and encourage a better and more productive response if they would, as requested, provide more background and sources in their posts, make sure their posts conform to Catholic teaching including the Catechism, post on a variety of topics rather than just one controversial one, and respond to queries about their posts.

Bottom line is, unless you would prefer that I just anonymously flag everything that looks “off” even if the person is a brand new poster, I will continue to question posters’ motivations if and when I see fit.
 
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Christ was tempted by the Devil. It is clear. Who else would have claimed to be the Prince of the world, quote scripture and ask Christ to worship him, but the Devil, a.k.a. Satan/Lucifer/Tempter?
 
Of course, I also find his/her Posts as problematic. However, I think it is sufficient to ask the poster for backround and arguements to back what he/she said (which you did) and maybe also a private message to get more information on the poster and then take necessary action if it is concluded as a potential troll. I am not too versed with Flagging and banning on CAF but questioning the poster if what he/she wrote was in Good faith or not…well…I dont know…what do you expect the poster to say? That ‘’ Yea, I write my first post in bad faith?’’ Hope you understand what I mean. Have a good day.
 
If the person is not writing in bad faith, then they can easily explain themself, show I am wrong and then I apologize.

If the person is however writing in bad faith, then most likely they simply won’t answer.

I do not PM with new posters or suspected trolls because I consider it a risky and unproductive activity.

This is my last post on the subject and sorry for derailing the thread, but I feel these discussions are necessary due to the number of upset threads we get in Feedback forum about how everybody has their own idea about how to deal with a problematic post and why can’t people just say out loud on the thread their concerns, etc. This is a situation where whatever a person does, some people are going to object.
 
Perhaps. But he is also called “the tempter,” and is clearly not Jesus’ co-equal. There is no battle between the two, not even symbolically. Jesus spurns him, showing he has no real power.
 
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I never said the devil was Jesus’ co-equal. What I am saying is the tempter, aka Devil, Satan is a real Being (fallen angel), more intelligent and powerful than man but just a creature like any of us, and thus way less powerful than Jesus who is God. A man in the state of grace is however more powerful than the devil.
 
I can accept that – my objection is not to his existence, but to his status with respect to God.
 
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Press release to the IEA on the declaration of Father Arturo Sosa Abascal at the Rimini meeting​


The real existence of the devil, as a personal subject who thinks and acts and who has made the choice of rebellion against God, is a truth of faith that has always been part of Christian doctrine. This truth is confirmed by a document of the Congregation of the Faith, published by “L’Osservatore Romano” on June 26, 1975. The text examines in detail the declaration of the IV Lateran Council, of which it recognizes the theological importance, also in relation to the the devil and the demons: "The statement that concerns them is presented as an undisputed affirmation of the Christian conscience".

ETA: if you get this in Italian, if you wait a short time, an offer to present the text in English may appear at the bottom of your window.
 
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