Jesus Christ - Bible Study

[benedictus2]

We have a Bible Study on the gospel of John and 1 Corinthians. Do you want to start a Bible Study on the book of Romans or the book of Galatians? These are the essential books driving the Protestant Reformation. In addition, there is another sola besides the 5 solas called toda sola or “all of scripture”. The Protestant Reformation and grounded in all of scripture. Please start a Bible Study on either the book of Galatians or the book of Romans and I will find time to participate.

The protestant “reformation” (if you can call it that at all) is not grounded on Scripture as a whole. This is why** Luther needed to excise the book of James**, because with it in the Bible, His Sola Fide goes down the gurgler.

The Protestants claim of Bible Alone is actually a misnomer. In practice it really means, SOME PARTS of the Bible Alone.

Once you start using ALL of Scripture, then the Protestant ideology collapses.

Luther’s intent just shows you that he doesn’t really accept the Bible. Otherwise, he would not have attempted to chop up the Word of God in the first place.

 

[benedictus2]

Let’s say, out of charity, that Reformed has sincerely offered all these prayers. Would not his coming here, then, be the answer to all those prayers?

:tiphat:
I tip my hat out to you. You are always very charitable and very gentle in your replies. I could learn a lot from you but my temper alwasy seem to get the better of me. Protestants who come here pontificating just makes me angry as I see their intent to be other than a desire to dialogue than to bludgeon us with their own man made doctrines.
Resolution for this week: Be a bit more like guanophore

 

[benedictus2]

Wow Ben2. I never caught that insight you just presented. Freud said not to underestimate the power of the unconscious mind. I guess we can have Freudian slips even when we type slow.
I hope your vacation was relaxing and rejuvenating.

I was so surprised he posted that picture. Freudian slip indeed.

And yes thanks, I had a really good retreat up in the mountains at what used to be a seminary for the Pallotines. Not quite Sinai but the encounter with our loving God was just as wonderful (I think). Moses will probably disagree .

 

[benedictus2]

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

This is the problem with your method of chopping up the Word of God. Re-read the entire Chapter. It is not about baptism.

Furthermore, that was Paul but here is Christ himself
Matthew 28:

11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

NON SEQUITUR

Acts 20:24

But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

ANOTHER NON SEQUITUR.

 

[ncgolf]

How much of the Holy Scriptures have you personally studied? How many times have you read the book of Romans or the book of Galatians? How many times have you read through the entire Scriptures?

Careful here … who were the most learned and scholarly men in Christ’s time … and they couldn’t see the forest through the trees.

Wow I sense a duel … choose your weapon … Galatians at 20 paces.

No matter what number you give … Reformed will beat you by 1.

 

[Ronald_E]

Careful here … who were the most learned and scholarly men in Christ’s time … and they couldn’t see the forest through the trees.

Wow I sense a duel … choose your weapon … Galatians at 20 paces.

No matter what number you give … Reformed will beat you by 1.

I agree with you. I am not participating anymore. This is not useful for living my faith and only wastes the energy that God has given me to work for Him.
Thank you for the insight.

 

[benedictus2]

Careful here … who were the most learned and scholarly men in Christ’s time … and they couldn’t see the forest through the trees.

Wow I sense a duel … choose your weapon … Galatians at 20 paces.

No matter what number you give … Reformed will beat you by 1.

:clapping:

 

[benedictus2]

I agree with you. I am not participating anymore. This is not useful for living my faith and only wastes the energy that God has given me to work for Him.
Thank you for the insight.

Hey guys! I think this is a good suggestion. Lets!

 

[Mickey]

I am not participating anymore. This is not useful for living my faith and only wastes the energy that God has given me to work for Him.

Do not dare to raise your weak hand to stop the elemental tide of apostasy. Avoid it, protect yourself from it, and that is enough for you. Get to know the spirit of the times, study it so you can avoid its influence whenever possible.
St. Ignatii Brianchaninov

 

[Reformed]

Originally Posted by Ronald E
I am not participating anymore. This is not useful for living my faith and only wastes the energy that God has given me to work for Him.

Hey guys! I think this is a good suggestion. Lets!

I am trying to be very candid and not offensive with this comment. It seems when I discuss the Scriptures with almost all Mormon Christians and some Roman Catholics, they will shut down the conversation by runining from the light of the Scriptures. I may know in part but have faith that God the Holy Spirit will illuminate truth in the Scriptures for God’s purpose, His own glory, and our good. If you run from the Scriptures, you will grieve the work of the Holy Spirit. You don’t have to agree with my interpretations, but don’t be afraid of studying the Scriptures together. This is a Catholic forum site; therfore, more Catholics will post than non-Catholics. What do you have to be afraid of? You are not participating in a Protestant Bible Study.

Martha and Mary
Now as they went on their way, Jesus entered a village. And a woman named Martha welcomed him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet and listened to his teaching. But Martha was distracted with much serving. And she went up to him and said, “Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her then to help me.” But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, but one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken away from her.” - Luke 10

John 17:17

Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Hebrews 4

Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”

Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[Mickey]

2Peter 2:1-5
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their riotousnesses, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you. Whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their perdition slumbereth not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment: And spared not the original world, but preserved Noe, the eighth person, the preacher of justice, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

 

[Ronald_E]

I am trying to be very candid and not offensive with this comment. It seems when I discuss the Scriptures with almost all Mormon Christians and some Roman Catholics, they will shut down the conversation by runining from the light of the Scriptures. I may know in part but have faith that God the Holy Spirit will illuminate truth in the Scriptures for God’s purpose, His own glory, and our good. If you run from the Scriptures, you will grieve the work of the Holy Spirit. You don’t have to agree with my interpretations, but don’t be afraid of studying the Scriptures together. This is a Catholic forum site; therfore, more Catholics will post than non-Catholics. What do you have to be afraid of? You are not participating in a Protestant Bible Study.

Dear Reformed, We are not studying together. I know where the Light is and that is where I am going. I want to live in the light and serve through the Light of Christ.
Your words above display a spiritual narcissism that gives you the superior position in your human understanding of scripture.
I know how difficult it is to influence this defensive posture of superiority and I pray that some day you will be blessed with God’s Grace as I was in order to see the luminous Light of The Holy Spirit through the gift of Humility.

 

[Reformed]

Dear Reformed, We are not studying together. I know where the Light is and that is where I am going. I want to live in the light and serve through the Light of Christ. How do you know what is the will of God is in your life?

Your words above display a spiritual narcissism that gives you the superior position in your human understanding of scripture.
I know how difficult it is to influence this defensive posture of superiority and I pray that some day you will be blessed with God’s Grace as I was in order to see the luminous Light of The Holy Spirit through the gift of Humility.

Please share with me where the light is and where you are going? How can you discern how to live in the light and serve Christ without the Holy Scriptures? Here is my answer to my question that I asked you.

John 1

The Word Became Flesh
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Please share with me where the light is and where you are going? How can you discern how to live in the light and serve Christ without the Holy Scriptures? Here is my answer to my question that I asked you.

John 1

The Word Became Flesh
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

This is a very good point, reformed. The holy scriptures are absolutely essential for learning the faith and seeking Christ. However, you are asking us to follow the holy scriptures according to reformed, and not God. That is why this “ecumenical Bible Study” is swiftly deteriorating. We simply cannot as a matter of faith and obedience to God, allow ourselves to twist sacred scripture to conform to your reformed interpretations.

Notice, I said the holy scriptures are absolutely essential to following Christ. The church, founded BY Christ on earth, and the authority HE placed with the protection of the holy spirit, is equally as essential!

You cannot ask us to continue a Bible study with you, when you refuse to accept the role of sacred tradition and magisterium in illuminating the scriptures.

And thank you for posting this beautiful passage from John. It is one that all Christians hold dear! It gives us a glimpse into the knowledge that Christ, as a person of the holy trinity, has been in existence from the beginning. It’s easy to fall into the trap of assuming Christ was “made” when he became flesh…but this passage reminds us that He has been with us from the beginning of time!

It also, calls us to witness to Christ! To be a light to the world! To shine through the darkness!

And Jesus has been given, many names throughout all of scripture. This particular name, “the word” reminds me, personally, that the gospel is not just a story, but a living, breathing testimony of Christ! The Scriptures truly are " inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness" (2 Tim. 3:16)

And the other point which stands out very dearly to me, which I never truly understood before God called me home to His church, was this:

“He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

How loudly this speaks to my heart, once again, of the Eucharist! For the Eucharist truly IS Christ! And Christ is the word!  Even today, He is calling to his own people, but they don't recieve him..because they don't believe he is present! They cling to the scriptures and search feverishly for Christ...they pray prayers of repentence and forgiveness, "sinners prayers" and are "born again." And yet they STILL deny Christ present among us!

I am so greatful, amazed, and humbled that God was able to bring me from this darkness, into the illuminating splendor of His true church! Ten years ago, I too, just like you reformed, believed it was my duty as a Christian to bring Catholics to Christ. I believed Catholics didn’t study scripture. I believed they followed false doctrines. I believed all of the “great reformers” and man made doctrines I had been handed. I believed them and I thought it brought glory to God when I would present the Bible alone!!! But now, by God’s grace, the veil has been LIFTED from my eyes. I can study and meditate on God’s word, and find understanding I never dreamed of, because I have opened my heart beyond my own interpretations. I have opened my heart to allow God to teach me through scripture as HE intended it to be read! Through HIS church, and with the authority of HIS church, with the promise of the holy spirit!

So, I ask you. Why do you believe that catholics "live in the light and serve Christ without the holy scriptures?"

Scripture, tradition, and magesterium are ALL gifts from God, so that we may serve Him and live in the light without fear of being led astray! He promised that even the gates of the netherwolrd would not prevail against his church! And with that promise, we accept and serve Christ according to HIS word, and not our own.

 

[guanophore]

Do not dare to raise your weak hand to stop the elemental tide of apostasy. Avoid it, protect yourself from it, and that is enough for you. Get to know the spirit of the times, study it so you can avoid its influence whenever possible.
St. Ignatii Brianchaninov

Thanks for another great quote Mickey! I am going to add that to the archives.

 

[Mickey]

We simply cannot as a matter of faith and obedience to God, allow ourselves to twist sacred scripture to conform to your reformed interpretations.

Just as the fishermen hide the hook with bait and covertly hook the fish, similarly, the crafty allies of the heresies cover their evil teachings and corrupt understanding with pietism and hook the more simple, bringing them to spiritual death.
St. Isidore of Pelusium (Letter to Timothy the Reader, PG, 78:252)

It also, calls us to witness to Christ! To be a light to the world! To shine through the darkness!

Matt 17:1-5
And after six days Jesus taketh unto him Peter and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow. And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them. And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him.

Scripture, tradition, and magesterium are ALL gifts from God

Just a slight correction, Ashley. Magisterium is spelled with an “i”.

 

[Mickey]

Thanks for another great quote Mickey! I am going to add that to the archives.

You a very welcome my brother in Christ. :tiphat:

 

[guanophore]

I am trying to be very candid and not offensive with this comment. It seems when I discuss the Scriptures with almost all Mormon Christians and some Roman Catholics, they will shut down the conversation by runining from the light of the Scriptures.

I am sure it seems that way to you, Reformed. I am willing to concede that you have no idea how condescending and offensive you are in your approach. I also believe that you are very sincere, and it may seem to you that your sincere motive obliterates the darkness that comes through, but it is not the case. We do not run from the light of the Scripture, as it is by their lamp unto our feet that we walk. However, we do avoid the darkness that you have brought in here under the guise of “scripture study”.

If you run from the Scriptures, you will grieve the work of the Holy Spirit.

We are in 100% agreement on this point.

You don’t have to agree with my interpretations, but don’t be afraid of studying the Scriptures together.

I doubt if I can get through to you on this point, but I am going to make it anyway just to see if I can plant a seed. The above statement is formulated in such a manner that, if one does not agree with your interpretations, one is “afraid” of studying the scripture. It is precisely this condescending, judgemenal, and pejorative attitude that leads people to want to go the other way. It is not the Scripture, it is Reformed, and in my opinion, what “drives” Reformed.

This is a Catholic forum site; therfore, more Catholics will post than non-Catholics. What do you have to be afraid of? You are not participating in a Protestant Bible Study.

No fears. The Bible is a Catholic book, written by, for, and about Catholics. Everything in it is Catholic, and nothing in it contradicts what the Catholic Church teaches.

However, you have tried constrain us into a “Protestant Bible Study”. You have tried to confine us to your sola scriptura presuppositions, excluded use of the whole scripture (“13 letters of Paul only”), and discounted the lens through which we read the Bible (Sacred Tradition).

 

[guanophore]

Please share with me where the light is and where you are going? How can you discern how to live in the light and serve Christ without the Holy Scriptures? Here is my answer to my question that I asked you.

The complete revelation of God in Christ was given to the Church. It was whole and entire before a word of the NT was ever written. When some of it was commited to writing, it was not “lost” from the Church, as you seem to think. This is why the Church is a light in a dark place, a city set on a hill, and a sure foundation for the faithful. Even those who could never read or afford to own a Bible could find Christ in His wholeness in the Church.

Jesus identifies Himself entirely with His Bride, the Church. When you persecute the Church He founded, you are persecuting Him. It is in Him that we find the Light of the World.

 

[Reformed]

Reformed, may I ask what is the point of this post?

What do you hope to gain by this?

Are you saying that we Catholics are ignorant of Scripture so need to be taught?

Or are you just out to pummel us with your Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide point of view again?

This is an inter-denominational Bible Study. Therefore, I have posted the Scriptures that we are currently on…so we can get back to the Scriptures which points us to Christ as our hope. By prayfully mediating on the Scriptures together, my hope is that we all grow in greater affection and love for God; therefore, by the grace of God… live a life to the glory of God as a testimony to the world in such need of Jesus Christ. Can the world around us see our great love for God, or does the world see Christians loving the world more than the God we proclaim?