Jesus Christ is our only 'mediator' as stated by St. Paul

[elvisman]

Elvisman, you don’t have to explain the meaning of words because I have a dictionary to consult for big words like that outhro … antropo …authropode … well, the one you used that means the morphing of the Divine into shapes we can understand … like a bird which could be this morphism that God flies, either by itself or riding on cherubims. By the way, tell me, if God is spirit and spirit doesn’t have appendages why do you call it a He? Am I missing a morphism here?

Because THAT is the image that man was created into - not arms, legs and sexual organs.

We were created in the spirit of God. Our flesh is merely a covering - a shell, if you will - of our souls. God isn’t described as a SHE - yet women were also created in his image.

Here’s something that should REALLY blow your mind:
**God is all powerful (Jer. 32:17, 27), yet He rests (Gen. 2:2). **
**God is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7-12), yet He asks Adam, “Where are you?” (Gen. 3:9). **
God is omniscient (1 John 3:20), yet, God says, “Now I know that you fear God…” (Gen. 22:12).
**ANYBODY using common sense knows that he is ALL of these things but uses the human terms to make his point.

Here are 2 more from the NT!
John 10:7 Jesus is a door**
John 15:1-6 Jesus is a vine
ANYBODY using common sense knows that he is NEITHER of these things but uses the terms to make his point.

Ummm . . . common sense is the key . . .

 

[elvisman]

elviaman: There seems to be an abundance of disingenousness, and spiritual pridefulness going on in this forum, on both sides! Sometimes, we need to be more fearful of the other sheep, than the wolf! You are obviously well versed, and well catechised, but from time to time, you have trouble seeing the forest for the trees And also, presuming to know what another man thinks, or means, is dangerous!

**I call you disingenous because although I and MANY others have told you about the Catholic Church’s stand on salvation outside the Church - you refuse to relent your position that the Church claims that NOBODY whatsoever will make it into heaven unless they are registered Catholics. **

This is simply untrue and you know it, but you keep making those seemingly ignorant remarks that are just plain deceitful . . .

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman: Just pointing out the fact that some of your brothers and sisters have put forth the idea of anyone outside the catholic church, could not be saved, not saying that YOU, elvisman believe that ! Because I serve a BIG God, I know that He extends the gift of salvation to all. I was just trying to findout if this was the general consenus, or just a few “renegades”, attempting to intimidate(LOL) non-catholics And I know that when JPII made his statements about noncatholics, he ruffled more than a few feathers, among diehard, hard-core catholics!

 

[elvisman]

elvisman: Just pointing out the fact that some of your brothers and sisters have put forth the idea of anyone outside the catholic church, could not be saved, not saying that YOU, elvisman believe that ! Because I serve a BIG God, I know that He extends the gift of salvation to all. I was just trying to findout if this was the general consenus, or just a few “renegades”, attempting to intimidate(LOL) non-catholics And I know that when JPII made his statements about noncatholics, he ruffled more than a few feathers, among diehard, hard-core catholics!

No - you’ve been told by many that people other than Catholics can be saved and that what JPII said is perfectly in line with Catholic teaching.

God DOES extend the gift of salvation to all - through his Church (the Body of Christ) because - and ONLY because - of the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Unfortunately, many refuse this gift.

This has been the message of the Gospel that the Church has taught for 2000 years.

 

[elvisman]

The Trinity is wrong, period. As is the Rapture.

**I completely agree with you about the Rapture (as it applies to pre and mid tribulation dispensationalist views) and can prove it with Scripture and the CONTEXT of Scripture alone.

Can you tell me why the Trinity is wrong - using Scripture alone and the CONTEXT of Scripture?

Talk to me.

 

[heiscominginthe]

I’m sorry heis, but God the Father DOES NOT have hands, feet, etc. He is a purely spiritual being [Jn 4:24], and Jesus teaches that spirit DOES NOT have flesh [Lk 24:39]. elvisman has pointed this out to you already but you refuse to believe him. When God said “Let us make man to our image and likeness” He was talking about our soul. This is evident because John 4:24 teaches that God does not have a body. Listen to elvisman, he knows what he is talking about.

So you are saying the spirit has no hands, feet, etc? I think you may be in for a surprise. How many places does it tell us in scriptures that we are in God’s hands. You can believe what you may, but I believe I rest in the hands of my Lord. I am protected by his mighty hand that surrounds me always.

Just because God is not flesh, which it true, does not mean he doesn’t have hands. And you sure cannot prove it with scripture.

 

[heiscominginthe]

I completely agree with you about the Rapture *(as it applies to pre and mid tribulation dispensationalist views) *and can prove it with Scripture and the CONTEXT of Scripture alone.

**Can you tell me why the Trinity **is wrong - using Scripture alone and the CONTEXT of Scripture?

Talk to me.

Below is a copulation that this person used to debunk the trinity doctrine. While I agree with allot of it. there are things he posted that do not hold water. I probably should have started a new thread, but here it is regardless.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

1 Samuel 15:29
He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Notice in verse six that Jesus was already begotten of the Father even before being sent into the world.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Before the creation of the heavens and the earth, the Father begat the Son, our salvation, in the beginning.

Jesus is the beginning of all creation, the firstborn of all creatures. He is the beginning and the end of our faith.

1. Is the word trinity in the Bible? No.
2. Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No.
3. Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes.
4. Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity.
5. Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-I John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, “These three are one.”
6. Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; I Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; I Timothy 2:5; James 2:19.
7. Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16.
8. Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
9. Then why did Jesus say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9)? Because Jesus is the express image of God’s person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for personin this verse literally means “substance.”
10. Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No.
11. Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. II Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3.
12. Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22.
13. Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10.
14. Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; II Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent.
15. Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16.
16. When God said, “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10.
17. How many of God’s qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9.
18. How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9.
19. Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8
20. Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father.
21. Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18
22. How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
23. If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate.
24. Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10
25. Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
26. Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14.
27. For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14.
28. Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. I Timothy 3:16.
29. Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13.
30. Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5.
31. Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.
32. Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. I kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1.
33. How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (I Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh.
34. Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8.
35. Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10.
36. What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8.
37. What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2.
38. How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4.
39. How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9.

 

[heiscominginthe]

1. Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16.
2. Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8
3. Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16.
4. Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7.
5. Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior.
6. Is Jesus the true God? Yes. I John 5:20.
7. If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ? Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, II Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; I Corinthians 3:16.
8. When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? “I am Jesus.” Acts 9:5.
9. When Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59.
10. Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28.
11. How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, “Beside me there is no Savior?” Because “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.” II Corinthians 5:19.
12. Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23.
13. Did Jesus ever say, “I and my Father are one?” Yes. John 10:30.
14. Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
15. Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25.
16. Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; I Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
17. Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present–Jesus Christ the Lord.
18. Then what were the other two of whom Trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17.
19. What did the voice say at Jesus’ baptism? “Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate.
20. Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; I John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body.
21. The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (I Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back–our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.

 

[heiscominginthe]

I posted the above because it has allot of good material in it. Yet, I don’t agree with some of it.

The reason why I posted it is for others to seek the truth from it. Yet, one thing the author of the above had just not understood is that Jesus is the Son of God, filled with the Holy Spirit of the Father, thus making him Father for this time. Yet, in 1 Cor. 15:24-28, it talks of the Son relinquishing his Godhead authority back unto the Father, once he has offered up the kingdom unto his Father. For there can be only one God and the Son relinquished his authority so that Father can be all in all.

 

[elvisman]

I posted the above because it has allot of good material in it. Yet, I don’t agree with some of it.

The reason why I posted it is for others to seek the truth from it. Yet, one thing the author of the above had just not understood is that Jesus is the Son of God, filled with the Holy Spirit of the Father, thus making him Father for this time. Yet, in 1 Cor. 15:24-28, it talks of the Son relinquishing his Godhead authority back unto the Father, once he has offered up the kingdom unto his Father. For there can be only one God and the Son relinquished his authority so that Father can be all in all.

WHAT??
How does any of this nullify the doctrine of the Trinity? Most of it supports the Trinity and some of it is out of context.
You’ll have to do much better than this.

As for 1 Cor. 15:24-28 - the Son doesn’t relinquish so much as he acknowledges the one who sent him and presents everything to him. And it is clear that he cannot put the Father under his dominion as he has all the rest. The Holy Spirit proceeds from them both.

I await avflf’s - or any other “oneness believer” - answer to my challenge . . .

 

[Texan77]

We do not see Mary as the mother of God.

Jesus Christ is not God?

Okay I know that you believe this to be true - but how does it work that Mary being Jesus mother is not the mother of God…

As Catholic we are not suggesting that Mary is the mother of God the Father - but Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man - in the early church they called her the mother of God because many at that time saw Jesus as just a man and not divine.

Last Mary is in fact - through christian instruction and belief - the Mother of God but is not the mother of divinity…

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman: The gift of salvation is not that complicated And Jesus will meet you wherever you are, whether it is the catholic church, in a train station, at a ball game(I’ve seen people come to the Lord there). We humans have a bad habit(And I know you’re thinking"No, only you non-catholics)of tweaking, and complicating the Good News! We actually sometimes(yes, even us noncatholics) drive people away from the church, rather than draw them to it! I really can’t believe that my Lord intended for His plan of salvation to be so ritualistic(Acts 2:38-40). But the great thing is, while you are catholic, and I am not, we still serve the same amazing God, and can still love each other in spite of our differences! Thank you brotha for the great times spent talking about Jesus! I am so stoked about serving my King!!!

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman: I know I have frustrated you with this thing about pope John Paul II, but I have to ask; as great a pope as he seemed to be, and I understand he is up for beatification, was he ever accused of heresy for his embracing of noncatholic religions and his “universal salvation” message? Was this in contradiction of pope Eugene IV, at the council of Florence,circa 1439, who in essence said,“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all, to hold the catholic faith; andunless each one presents this whole and inviolate he will without a doubt, perish!” It is strange indeed, to imagine someone of JPII’s stature being accused of not only heresy, but even, dare I say it, apostasy. I didn’t know a lot about this pope, but I do remember him as being very visible and very involved with leaders of other religions,i.e, Jews, Muslims, Protestants, etc. So, confusion reigns about whether this pope advanced the teachings of those such as pope Eugene IV, or went sideways, teaching that even those outside of the catholic church, COULD be saved Mind you, it is still a matter of accepting or rejecting the gift of grace and salvation(s-o-o-o glad I accepted it). And did JPII, have any opposing thoughts on purgatory?

 

[elvisman]

elvisman: The gift of salvation is not that complicated And Jesus will meet you wherever you are, whether it is the catholic church, in a train station, at a ball game(I’ve seen people come to the Lord there). We humans have a bad habit(And I know you’re thinking"No, only you non-catholics)of tweaking, and complicating the Good News! We actually sometimes(yes, even us noncatholics) drive people away from the church, rather than draw them to it! I really can’t believe that my Lord intended for His plan of salvation to be so ritualistic(Acts 2:38-40). But the great thing is, while you are catholic, and I am not, we still serve the same amazing God, and can still love each other in spite of our differences! Thank you brotha for the great times spent talking about Jesus! I am so stoked about serving my King!!!

**And therein lies your confusion.
The Catholic Church is not a place or train station or a building. It is the living, breathing Body of Christ.

I don’t disrespect you because you’re Protestant. I respect your enthusiasm and hunger for truth - but my fervent hope is that you’ll come home to Christ’s Body.

The one thing I always hear from Protestants is that the catholic church "complicates" the simplicity of Jesus’ message of salvation.
If anything, Protestants over-simplify the very difficult task of remaining faithful and enduring to the end. Jesus and the Apostles never said it would be easy - in the CONTEXT of Scripture. They said just the opposite:

**Luke 9:23
**"If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Matt. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom of heaven’."

---

Matt. 24:13
"He who endures to the end will be saved"

Romans 11:22****
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”

---

Hebrews 10:26-27****
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

---

2 Peter 2:26-27****
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified".

1 Cor. 4:4
"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified.
It is the Lord who judges me".

1 John 5:13
‘These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.’

 

[elvisman]

elvisman: I know I have frustrated you with this thing about pope John Paul II, but I have to ask; as great a pope as he seemed to be, and I understand he is up for beatification, was he ever accused of heresy for his embracing of noncatholic religions and his “universal salvation” message? Was this in contradiction of pope Eugene IV, at the council of Florence,circa 1439, who in essence said,“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all, to hold the catholic faith; andunless each one presents this whole and inviolate he will without a doubt, perish!” It is strange indeed, to imagine someone of JPII’s stature being accused of not only heresy, but even, dare I say it, apostasy. I didn’t know a lot about this pope, but I do remember him as being very visible and very involved with leaders of other religions,i.e, Jews, Muslims, Protestants, etc. So, confusion reigns about whether this pope advanced the teachings of those such as pope Eugene IV, or went sideways, teaching that even those outside of the catholic church, COULD be saved Mind you, it is still a matter of accepting or rejecting the gift of grace and salvation(s-o-o-o glad I accepted it). And did JPII, have any opposing thoughts on purgatory?

Like I said before, this is the Catholic position on salvation “outside the Church”:

---

*Outside the Church there is no salvation (This is because there is no salvation outside the Body of Christ). * He is the ONLY way.

---

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
847*** This affirmation is not* aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: **

---

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337**

---

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

---

What JPII taught is in perfect harmony with what the Catechism teaches and what prior popes taught. That people who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel CAN be saved.** This does not apply to those outside the church who knowingly reject Christ’s body.**

---

I hope this finally puts this matter to rest.

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman: Let me assure you that this Christian walk is very arduous; albeit rewarding! After 42 years of following my Saviour, I must admit, that there are many days, where this cross gets mighty heavy! Persecution, however slight, disappointments, and loss, are just some of the many trials that we as Christians face! I have never indicated to anyone that the Christian life is “easy”, but I have shared my testimony(we all have one), about Christ’s invitation being for ALL! Have I been a good Christian? Well to quote Paul,“I am a wretched man,” this is how the molding and shaping of your life, by God, reveals your shortcomings(Phil 1:6) And when I witness to others, I am planting seeds, which only the Holy Spirit can fertilize and cultivate. I cannot save anyone, but to “hide my light under a bushel”, is to deny someone/anyone the Good News of the Gospel. Regardless of afiliation, we as Christians are charged with going forth with this Good News(Matthew 28:19-20) And as much as I appreciate the invitation to come to Christ’s church, sadly I would be a “cafeteria catholic.!” I mean.even though I am politically independent, I am prolife, pro-family, against same-sex marriage, detest divorce, and believe in One God, One Saviour, One Way Home, there are other things that I cannot embrace, that would render me a “cafeteria catholic,” sorry!

 

[avflf]

WHAT??
How does any of this nullify the doctrine of the Trinity? Most of it supports the Trinity and some of it is out of context.
You’ll have to do much better than this.

As for 1 Cor. 15:24-28 - the Son doesn’t relinquish so much as he acknowledges the one who sent him and presents everything to him. And it is clear that he cannot put the Father under his dominion as he has all the rest. The Holy Spirit proceeds from them both.

I await avflf’s - or any other “oneness believer” - answer to my challenge . . .

jeiscominginthe posted a fair summary of the oneness belief but I do not expect that anything I add to it will make you see how much more glorious God is by appreciating what He did to redeem us. He DID NOT “send” anyone else to to the dirty work for Him. He did it Himself by taking human form and to suffer and die for us. Remember the great commission (Mat 28:19-20) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (Eusebius Pamphilli, Bishop of Caesaria from 270-340 AD when quoting this passage has it as “Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you”), and remember how … he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (Joh 20:22) and how the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth/comforter (Jn.14:16-17) that would guide them *into all truth *(Jn 16:13)?
Don’t you find it strange that just after Pentecost. Peter admonishes the multitude with these words *Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost? *(Act 2:38)
Wasn’t Peter present at the Great Commission speech? He couldn’t have misinterpreted the baptismal formula because the Comforter had imbued him with all truth. The name Emmanuel (Mat.1:23) should give you a clue that “God with us” - the Old Testament God would now dwell with mankind. The problem is that you accept that Jesus was both man and God, just like the oneness folk, but you have to limit God by dividing Him into three. Don’t you believe that One God is capable of multitasking and have to give him helpers - one god to die as man, the other to be a Comforter when the one that died returns to the Head God in the sky.
Look how God was known throughout the O/T - He was known as Jehovah-Jireh (the provider) Gen 22:14; Jehovah-Rapha (healer) Ex 15:26; Jehovah-Nissi (my banner) (Ex 17:15); Jehovah-Shalom (peace) Judges 6:24; Jehovah Ra-ah (shepherd) Ps 23:1; Jehovah- Tsidkenu (righteousness) Jer 23:5,6; Jehovah-Shammah (ever present) Eze 48:35; Jehovah-Jesus (saviour) Isa 45:21,22.
As God Jesus gave rest Mt 11:28 as man he was wearied. As God he is the bread of life Jn 6:35 as man he hungered Mt 4:2 and so on and so on. You know them all too but you attribute it to 1/3 of the Godhead i.e. God the Son, while the oneness believers attributes it to the one and only God which is spirit. But I grant that it’s terrible difficult for someone that has been a Trinitarian for many years to see the oneness message. Only God can reveal it to them, in His good time

 

[elvisman]

jeiscominginthe posted a fair summary of the oneness belief but I do not expect that anything I add to it will make you see how much more glorious God is by appreciating what He did to redeem us. He DID NOT “send” anyone else to to the dirty work for Him. He did it Himself by taking human form and to suffer and die for us. Remember the great commission (Mat 28:19-20) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (Eusebius Pamphilli, Bishop of Caesaria from 270-340 AD when quoting this passage has it as “Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you”), and remember how … he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (Joh 20:22) and how the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth/comforter (Jn.14:16-17) that would guide them *into all truth *(Jn 16:13)?
Don’t you find it strange that just after Pentecost. Peter admonishes the multitude with these words *Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost? *(Act 2:38)
Wasn’t Peter present at the Great Commission speech? He couldn’t have misinterpreted the baptismal formula because the Comforter had imbued him with all truth. The name Emmanuel (Mat.1:23) should give you a clue that “God with us” - the Old Testament God would now dwell with mankind. The problem is that you accept that Jesus was both man and God, just like the oneness folk, but you have to limit God by dividing Him into three. Don’t you believe that One God is capable of multitasking and have to give him helpers - one god to die as man, the other to be a Comforter when the one that died returns to the Head God in the sky.
Look how God was known throughout the O/T - He was known as Jehovah-Jireh (the provider) Gen 22:14; Jehovah-Rapha (healer) Ex 15:26; Jehovah-Nissi (my banner) (Ex 17:15); Jehovah-Shalom (peace) Judges 6:24; Jehovah Ra-ah (shepherd) Ps 23:1; Jehovah- Tsidkenu (righteousness) Jer 23:5,6; Jehovah-Shammah (ever present) Eze 48:35; Jehovah-Jesus (saviour) Isa 45:21,22.
As God Jesus gave rest Mt 11:28 as man he was wearied. As God he is the bread of life Jn 6:35 as man he hungered Mt 4:2 and so on and so on. You know them all too but you attribute it to 1/3 of the Godhead i.e. God the Son, while the oneness believers attributes it to the one and only God which is spirit. But I grant that it’s terrible difficult for someone that has been a Trinitarian for many years to see the oneness message. Only God can reveal it to them, in His good time

It’s convenient how you leave things out that will illustrate the Trinity.
You quoted John 20:22, but left out the preceding and following verses.
Here it is in its CONTEXT:
****(Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. **As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” ***And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. ***Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." **
You see - it CLEARLY states that Jesus WAS sent by the Father.
As for further proof of the Trinity from Scripture - read the following and weep. Oh - and I won’t take anything out of context as you did - and because I have much to teach you, it will take a couple of posts:

“Elohim”,the Hebrew word for “God” is plural.
“Echad”, which is the Biblical Hebrew word for “one” is a corporate oneness, not just a numeric or chronological count. God is a plural number of persons yet one. All through the Scriptures, “echad” is continually used in reference to the one true God.

A glaring example of the meaning of “echad” can be also found in the celebration of the Jewish Passover. The three-pocketed matzo holder used during Passover is referred to as an “echad”. Consequently, it is the middle of the three matzos that is broken during the ceremony. The Holy Trinity of God and the brokenness of the Second Person of the Trinity are clearly revealed in this ancient tradition. The “echad”, the one true God, is the Holy Trinity.

The true Biblical doctrine of the oneness of God expresses His corporate unity. Jesus is one God with His Father. This is what Jesus meant when He said, “I and my Father are one.” (John 10:30).

Genesis 1:26
“And God said, Let us make man in our image…"

Isaiah 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

(The repetition of "Holy, holy, holy" symbolizes glory to the Father, Son and Spirit. This is echoed in the following verse)

Revelation 4:8
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Isaiah 48:16
"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me [Jesus Christ, the Messiah]."

 

[elvisman]

continued from previous post . . .

Matthew 3:16-17
**And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice (the Father) from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 28:19
"Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Luke 1:35
**And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest (Father) shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God (Jesus).

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name (Jesus the Son), he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ (Father) from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

1 John 5:7
"There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God (Father) hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Galatians 13:14
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all."**

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord (Jesus), one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[elvisman]

(Eusebius Pamphilli, Bishop of Caesaria from 270-340 AD when quoting this passage has it as “Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you”), and remember how … he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (Joh 20:22) and how the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth/comforter (Jn.14:16-17) that would guide them *into all truth *(Jn 16:13)?

Oh - and before you start to misquote the Early Father of the Church and take their comments out of context, I’ll provide their views on the Trinity for you:

Athenagoras
For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence, - the Father, the Son, the Spirit because the Son is intelligence, reason, wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire; so also do we apprehend the existence of other powers, which exercise dominion about matter, and by means of it (A Plea for the Christians, 2:18 A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus
**For the Son, who is the Word of God, arranged these things beforehand from the beginning, the Father being in no want of angels, in order that He might call the creation into being, and form man, for whom also the creation was made; nor, again, standing in need of any instrumentality for the framing of created things, or for the ordering of those things which had reference to man; while, [at the same time,] He has a vast and unspeakable number of servants. For His offspring and His similitude do minister to Him in every respect; that is, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Word and Wisdom; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject (Against Heresies 4:7:4 A.D. 180-190]).
Theophilus of Antioch
The three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His Wisdom (To Autolycus 2:18 A.D. 181]).

Clement of Alexandria
And the address in the Timœus calls the creator, Father, speaking thus: ‘Ye gods of gods, of whom I am Father; and the Creator of your works.’ So that when he says, ‘Around the king of all, all things are, and because of Him are all things; and he [or that] is the cause of all good things; and around the second are the things second in order; and around the third, the third,’ I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father (The Stromata 5:14 A.D. 202]).

Hippolytus
A man, therefore, even though he will it not, is compelled to acknowledge God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus the Son of God, who, being God, became man, to whom also the Father made all things subject, Himself excepted, and the Holy Spirit; and that these, therefore, are three. But if he desires to learn how it is shown still that there is one God, let him know that His power is one. As far as regards the power, therefore, God is one. But as far as regards the economy there is a threefold manifestation, as shall be proved afterwards when we give account of the true doctrine (Against the Heresy of One Noetus 8 A.D. 200-210]).

Tertullian
…All are of One, by unity (that is) of substance; while the mystery of the dispensation is still guarded, which distributes the Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in substance, but in form; not in power, but in aspect; yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Against Praxeus 2 A.D. 213]).
…all the Scriptures attest the clear existence of, and distinction in (the Persons of) the Trinity, and indeed furnish us with our Rule of faith…. (ibid. 11A.D. 213**]).**

Origen
**…the divine benefits [are] bestowed upon us by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which Trinity is the fountain of all holiness…. (On First Principles 1:4:2 A.D. 220-230]).
And under this rule must be brought also the understanding of the sacred Scripture, in order that its statements may be judged not according to the worthlessness of the letter, but according to the divinity of the Holy Spirit, by whose inspiration they were caused to be written (ibid. 4:27 A.D. 220-230]).
Now this expression which we employ – ‘that there never was a time when He did not exist’ – is to be understood with an allowance. For these very words ‘when’ or ‘never’ have a meaning that relates to time, whereas the statements made regarding Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are to be understood as transcending all time, all ages, and all eternity. For it is the Trinity alone which exceeds the comprehension not only of temporal but even of eternal intelligence; while other things which are not included in it are to be measured by times and ages (ibid. 4:28 [A.D. 220-230]).

Gregory Thaumaturgus
There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything superinduced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides forever (Declaration of Faith circa A.D. 250]).**