Jesus Christ is our only 'mediator' as stated by St. Paul

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There you go again elvisman, being condescending. “Confused friend” indeed. How do you know that a spirit does not have spirit fingers and nostrils, or prefers its spirit right hand to its left? But that’s not the point, as you should have known. The point is that the writer of Exodus portrayed God as being the sole writer of the commandments on the tables of stone – without the use of a human agent - on two occasions. He used the expression “finger of God” to convey his belief that the tables of stone were miraculous engraved by God Himself. Yet, on other occasions, the same writer tells us that Moses chiseled God’s commandments on the stone slabs. So the question remains “Who wrote on the slabs, God or Moses? Or was it a combined effort?
Actually - this wasn’t the issue. The issue was about what is explicitly taught about Mary and what is implicit. The example I provided was Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant. YOU derailed it to another direction.

As we’ve seen in the last few posts - you can’t grasp the idea of anthropomorphisms. That’s why I called you confused. It’s not condescension - it’s a valid observation based on your inability to deal with anthropomorphistic language.
 
elvisman: I never said that ALL would be saved, but it is easy to interpret the catholic position on salvation as being, "If you aren’t in the catholic church, you cannot be saved! JPII spoke the truth, when he said that “No man was beyond God’s love” But the cc persists in being arrogant, and exclusive, similar to the Pharisees! John 3:16 does not say that some who believe, or only catholics will be saved; it says ALL. I know that JPII was a great man of God, but it was apparent that he had compassion for those outside the church, who by previous mandates felt excluded from Jesus’s promise of salvation! And neither one of us can say that anyone or everyone cannot have the opportunity to be saved, regardless of denomination! Only God knows what’s in a man’s heart, and only He forgives sin! And it’s okay that you guys believe that Mary is the second Ark, but afford us the opportunity to disagree!
 
PS - You as well as your friend avflf BOTH failed to debunk my post #1058.
We WERE talking about OT typology of Mary - not whether or God has fingers and nostrils . . . :rolleyes:
I was not trying to debunk anything. If you wish to make comparisons between a box and Mary you quite entitled to do so. I mean, you might even find parallels in the NT for the following Ark properties:

(Exo 25:12) And four golden rings, which thou shalt put at the four corners of the ark: let two rings be on the one side, and two on the other.

(Exo 25:13) Thou shalt make bars also of setim wood, and shalt overlay them with gold.

(Exo 25:14) And thou shalt put them in through the rings that are in the sides of the ark, that it may be carried on them:

(Exo 25:15) And they shall be always in the rings, neither shall they at any time be drawn out of them.

The sky’s the limit my friend.
 
**Actually - this wasn’t **the issue. The issue was about what is explicitly taught about Mary and what is implicit. The example I provided was Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant. YOU derailed it to another direction.

**As we’ve seen in the last few posts - you can’t **grasp the idea of anthropomorphisms. That’s why I called you confused. It’s not condescension - it’s a valid observation based on your inability to deal with anthropomorphistic language.
It was not derailing but an observation from one of your scriptural quotes. I see you’re not prepared to answer my question on the authorship of the writing. And try not to patronize me with "your inability to understand/deal’ with this or that. I understand very well those passages in Scripture. I think you should pray to your patron saint to curb your “know-it-all” attitude. A bit of humility wouldn’t go amiss.
 
elvisman: I never said that ALL would be saved, but it is easy to interpret the catholic position on salvation as being, "If you aren’t in the catholic church, you cannot be saved! JPII spoke the truth, when he said that “No man was beyond God’s love” But the cc persists in being arrogant, and exclusive, similar to the Pharisees! John 3:16 does not say that some who believe, or only catholics will be saved; it says ALL. I know that JPII was a great man of God, but it was apparent that he had compassion for those outside the church, who by previous mandates felt excluded from Jesus’s promise of salvation! And neither one of us can say that anyone or everyone cannot have the opportunity to be saved, regardless of denomination! Only God knows what’s in a man’s heart, and only He forgives sin! And it’s okay that you guys believe that Mary is the second Ark, but afford us the opportunity to disagree!
**There you go again misrepresenting the Catholic position. **

Your comment is very telling of your ignorance:
"…it is easy to interpret the catholic position on salvation as being, "If you aren’t in the catholic church, you cannot be saved!

This is not the Catholic position. I’ve already stated several times what the Catholic position is but you keep refusing to hear. Do everybody a favor and stick to what you know (which appears to b e scant) - insteading of speaking of things you have absolutely no grasp of. :rolleyes:

As for Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant - she is. But, you can believe or disbelieve what you want. I never said you had to believe in anything.
 
It was not derailing but an observation from one of your scriptural quotes. I see you’re not prepared to answer my question on the authorship of the writing. And try not to patronize me with "your inability to understand/deal’ with this or that. I understand very well those passages in Scripture. I think you should pray to your patron saint to curb your “know-it-all” attitude. A bit of humility wouldn’t go amiss.
I’m not a know-it-all. I just think before I speak. I make sure what I say is researched rather than stick my foot in my mouth as you and 1beleevr have been doing.

You speak of understanding these passages and it is abundantly evident that you don’t understand much of what Scripture says.

It is clear that you cannot grasp (or refuse to) the anthropomorphic language of Scripture - and since you don’t, I’ll explain what it is:

**Anthropomorphisms are what the writers of the Scriptures used to apply human characteristics or understanding to otherwise supernatural beings or events. A few good examples are "the finger of God", “a blast of his (God’s) nostrils” and the like. **

**It would be similar to a 21st century author describing a storm by saying that “it was raining cats and dogs”.In your imited understanding, there would have to be “piles of pussycats” and “puddles of poodles” for this to be true.

I’ve already shown you where God is described in the Psalms as having feathers and wings yet I doubt that you are ready to perceive him as a bird.
If he IS a bird, then he wouldn’t have fingers, no would he? This is yet another classic example where you didn’t do your homework and I did.


**Your rejection of the Trinity is another tragic example of your limited knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures.
 
You simply don’t understand the Scriptures.

For instance - i****s God a bird? No – but he is described as having wings and feathers in Psalm 91:4. The Scriptures are written in such a way so that we - as limited human beings can understand. Unfortunately - some of us are more “limited” than others in the understanding of Biblical anthropomorphistic language. :rolleyes:

Jesus said in John 4:24, “God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth.” And in Luke 24:39 Jesus says that a* “spirit has not* flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39).

Your problem is that you are trying to bring God down to YOUR level and that is never going to happen. Sorry, pal - you* can’t* have it your way.

PS - You as well as your friend avflf BOTH failed to debunk my post #1058.
We WERE talking about OT typology of Mary - not whether or God has fingers and nostrils . . . :rolleyes:
Debunk? You did that yourself. I had to do nothing. For I am a man and have been created in the image of my heavenly Father, and just as he has two hands, two feet, a face and so on and so forth, so do I, his creation in his image.
 
Debunk? You did that yourself. I had to do nothing. For I am a man and have been created in the image of my heavenly Father, and just as he has two hands, two feet, a face and so on and so forth, so do I, his creation in his image.
I’m sorry heis, but God the Father DOES NOT have hands, feet, etc. He is a purely spiritual being [Jn 4:24], and Jesus teaches that spirit DOES NOT have flesh [Lk 24:39]. elvisman has pointed this out to you already but you refuse to believe him. When God said “Let us make man to our image and likeness” He was talking about our soul. This is evident because John 4:24 teaches that God does not have a body. Listen to elvisman, he knows what he is talking about.
 
Debunk? You did that yourself. I had to do nothing. For I am a man and have been created in the image of my heavenly Father, and just as he has two hands, two feet, a face and so on and so forth, so do I, his creation in his image.
Gee, I hate to ruffle your feathers (you DO have them, don’t you?) but you’re wrong.
What do you make of the Psalm 91:4?

PS - I know you won’t answer, but I thought I’d ask, anyway . . . :rolleyes:
 
onenow1: Didn’t all of Christ’s disciples(except Judas) hold their own cup and bread, when partaking of communion with Jesus(I believe it is accepted that they actually passed the cup around)?:cool:
Quote=onenow1. " They all ate the passover dinner, and Jesus replied">>Matt.25: 20 When it was evening, he sat at table with the twelve disciples;
21 and as they were eating, he said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.”
22 And they were very sorrowful, and began to say to him one after another, “Is it I, Lord?”
23 He answered, "He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me, will betray me.

Matt 26: 26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and >>GAVE IT TO THE DISCIPLES<< and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”
27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he>> GAVE IT TO THEM saying, "Drink of it, all of you;

Quote=onenow1, If you’ll notice it was after the meal Jesus instituted the Holy Eucharist.:yup:

Peace and God Bless
onenow1 Coffee Time !
 
imkingdad: Isn’t Jesus or King? And can you show all of us where Jesus EXPLICITLY commands US to go weekly and confess our sins to a stranger? 1John 1:9 tells us,“For if we confess our sins unto Him, He is faithful to forgive US of all wickedness!” So lay some wisdom on us from the royal order of arrogant, exclusive,“we’re the only ones going to heaven”, club, also known as catholics:p
Might I suggest St Peter’s & St Paul’s Letters, We were told by both to submit to the Authority of the Presbyters etc. Just as you Wonderful. Pro-test-ants deduce certain elements of FAITH from the scriptures that are NOT Explictly made manifest in them, you then seek to deny Others - Catholic or Protestant - the right to do the same. Does the word Hypocrite ring in your ears?

Next Catholics DO NOT Teach that they are the Only Ones going to Heaven. Whomever taught you that Damnable lie Is of Satan. Might I suggest you Google & search the Catechism for that purported teaching OR Apologize for your misstatement.

Catholics Readily acknowledge the deposits of Faith that are held by our PRO-TEST-ANT Brothers & we even extol them when & where they are right. We acknowledge that there will be Jews, Protestants of all varieties, Catholics & quite likely even some heathens in Heaven. by the Grace of God. This is in stark Contrast to Your “Its Our way or the Highway” mentality I see you demonstrating here.

So Might I suggest that you REREAD every Epistle & reflect mightily upon scripture. Might I also suggest that your arrogance & buffoonery are not particularly well received. Try reading the Catechism for a complete & true understanding of what Catholics are supposed to Believe before you come in here bad-mouthing folks.

For Example, when was the last Time Catholics were outside your Billy-Bob Bumpkin Belief center Condemning you & the Brethren to Hellfire for all eternity simply because you were not in 100% agreement with Us?? Hmmmmm??

Try Growing Up! Try to Mature within those Elements of the Faith that your subgroup of Pro-test-ants actually have retained that comply to the Established Church of Christ. Lastly try actually investigating your own foundations & that of your particular subgroup compared to the Church Christ Established & that History has documented lo’ these past 2000 yrs or so & see when & where your divergence began. I/we will pray for you. vivat Jesus
 
geez, imkingdad, that plank in your eye, is growing! In a previous post, you unabashedly trashed anyone outside of "your"church! And, true to form, when asked to show where Jesus told US, to go to confession, you "wandered off into some confusing diatribe, about apostolic succession, telling us to submit to authority, when John tells us we can confess directly to Our KING! And James of course, suggests, that confessing our sins to each other(not necessarily a priest) is good, and that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much. So you see, my arrogant, self righteous brother in Christ, you too are a talking head, parroting what you have been taught:p And throughout my nearly 7 months on this forum, there have been a number(to huge to list here) of catholics who put forward the idea, that if you aren’t catholic, you can’t be saved! And I am well aware that there will be “people” of different faiths and walks of life in Heaven; in fact, we may all be surprised at who makes it, and who doesn’t:cool:It appears though that you have been ill taught in judging others(Matthew 7:1-5). So, from one Christian to another, God bless you!👍
 
geez, imkingdad, that plank in your eye, is growing! In a previous post, you unabashedly trashed anyone outside of "your"church! And, true to form, when asked to show where Jesus told US, to go to confession, you "wandered off into some confusing diatribe, about apostolic succession, telling us to submit to authority, when John tells us we can confess directly to Our KING! And James of course, suggests, that confessing our sins to each other(not necessarily a priest) is good, and that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much. So you see, my arrogant, self righteous brother in Christ, you too are a talking head, parroting what you have been taught:p And throughout my nearly 7 months on this forum, there have been a number(to huge to list here) of catholics who put forward the idea, that if you aren’t catholic, you can’t be saved! And I am well aware that there will be “people” of different faiths and walks of life in Heaven; in fact, we may all be surprised at who makes it, and who doesn’t:cool:It appears though that you have been ill taught in judging others(Matthew 7:1-5). So, from one Christian to another, God bless you!👍
Ummm . . . imkingdad wasn’t judging you. He even agreed that there will be non-Catholics who will make it to heaven.
You always play the "don’t judge me!" card when you don’t have anything to come back with.

Well, my angry and confused friend - we ARE called upon to judge rightly. Maybe you should crack open a Bible and read the following passages about judging.
Oh - ONE hint - CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT:

**Matthew 7:15-16,****Luke 7:42-43, **Luke 12:57, John 7:24, Acts 18:5-6, Galatians 6:1, Romans 16:17, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, Ephesians 5:11.
 
elvisman: And you do ventriloquism too? According to the dictionary, the word judge,means, among others, to criticize, or form an opinion about something, or someone. Even though imkingdad doesn’t know me from Adam, he has decided that I am a hypocrite, because I don’t share his viewpoint:p If he were to read my posts, he could see that I, 1beleevr, have NEVER told anybody that they couldn’t do anything spiritual or otherwise; but because I disagree with things such as confessing to a priest(which I believe to be something taken out of context of Jesus’s words), infant baptism, asking Mary or the saints to intercede on my behalf to God, he has chosen to berate the entire non-catholic community. I am my own person, and do not adhere to everything that many of the organized religions teach, including catholicism. And I do support judging rightly, using Godly principals; but one should really think twice before speaking or double check their posts, before putting it out there:D Am I guilty of judging others at times, even though I’m a Christian? Of course, I do; the difference now is that when I catch myself, I repent, thank God for His forgiveness, and move on! And it is al about context with you, isn’t it? Even though you don’t always practice what you preach! I thank God daily for Jesus, His peace, and discernment, which helps me to sort things out!
 
imkingdad: Looked in the dictionary under hypocrite, and it said:1) a person who puts on a false appearance of goodness or religion. 2)imkingdad,3)Pharisee! Hypocrisy is as hypocrisy does! Were you looking in the mirror when you wrote that post? What makes you think that I, one man, am denying anyone the right to worship as they please, or confess to a priest, or any other religious freedom? Just because I say,“You haven’t shown me where my Saviour commanded me to confess weekly to a stranger;) What probably brought this about was someone down the apostolic line of succession, decided that Jesus’s words in John 20:20-23 meant that we as Christians were to go to a priest and confess our sins! The last I heard, God still forgives sin, so what I am saying is this; why do I have to confess to a stranger(I know, I know, James 5:16, etc,) And 1 Corinthians 8:1 says"But while knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church.” I have seen a ton of knowledge in this catholic forum, but haven’t felt much love. Before you start name calling, check that glass house you’re living in!
 
I’m not a know-it-all. I just think before I speak. I make sure what I say is researched rather than stick my foot in my mouth as you and 1beleevr have been doing.

You speak of understanding these passages and it is abundantly evident that you don’t understand much of what Scripture says.

It is clear that you cannot grasp (or refuse to) the anthropomorphic language of Scripture - and since you don’t, I’ll explain what it is:
Anthropomorphisms are what the writers of the Scriptures used to apply human characteristics or understanding to otherwise supernatural beings or events. A few good examples are "the finger of God", “a blast of his (God’s) nostrils” and the like.

**It would be similar to a 21st century author describing a storm by saying that *“it was raining cats and dogs”.***In your imited understanding, there would have to be “piles of pussycats” and “puddles of poodles” for this to be true.

I’ve already shown you where God is described in the Psalms as having feathers and wings yet I doubt that you are ready to perceive him as a bird.
If he IS a bird, then he wouldn’t have fingers, no would he? This is yet another classic example where you didn’t do your homework and I did.

**Your rejection of the Trinity is *another ***tragic example of your limited knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures.
Elvisman, you don’t have to explain the meaning of words because I have a dictionary to consult for big words like that outhro … antropo …authropode … well, the one you used that means the morphing of the Divine into shapes we can understand … like a bird which could be this morphism that God flies, either by itself or riding on cherubims. By the way, tell me, if God is spirit and spirit doesn’t have appendages why do you call it a He? Am I missing a morphism here?
 
I’m sorry heis, but God the Father DOES NOT have hands, feet, etc. He is a purely spiritual being [Jn 4:24], and Jesus teaches that spirit DOES NOT have flesh [Lk 24:39]. elvisman has pointed this out to you already but you refuse to believe him. When God said “Let us make man to our image and likeness” He was talking about our soul. This is evident because John 4:24 teaches that God does not have a body. Listen to elvisman, he knows what he is talking about.
Right, we have established that God the Father is a spiritual being meaning a spirit. What of God the Son before he incarnated as a fetus in Mary’s womb? Was he a Spirit also? And returned to that same spirit form when he ascended? Thirdly, God the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost, although the name implies that he was a spirit like God the Father, was he really a spirit, different from God the Father perhaps. Or are they all 3 a triple anthropomorphism? Maybe this should go to Elvisman, he likes big words.
 
elvisman: And you do ventriloquism too? According to the dictionary, the word judge,means, among others, to criticize, or form an opinion about something, or someone. Even though imkingdad doesn’t know me from Adam, he has decided that I am a hypocrite, because I don’t share his viewpoint:p If he were to read my posts, he could see that I, 1beleevr, have NEVER told anybody that they couldn’t do anything spiritual or otherwise; but because I disagree with things such as confessing to a priest(which I believe to be something taken out of context of Jesus’s words), infant baptism, asking Mary or the saints to intercede on my behalf to God, he has chosen to berate the entire non-catholic community. I am my own person, and do not adhere to everything that many of the organized religions teach, including catholicism. And I do support judging rightly, using Godly principals; but one should really think twice before speaking or double check their posts, before putting it out there:D Am I guilty of judging others at times, even though I’m a Christian? Of course, I do; the difference now is that when I catch myself, I repent, thank God for His forgiveness, and move on! And it is al about context with you, isn’t it? Even though you don’t always practice what you preach! I thank God daily for Jesus, His peace, and discernment, which helps me to sort things out!
And according to the Bible, judging rightly is a good thing.

Judging by your words, I don’t know if I’d call you a hypocrite so much as I would call you disingenuous and spiritually prideful.


**I wouldn’t call you ignorant because you’ve been shown the truth and have refused it. :rolleyes:
 
elviaman: There seems to be an abundance of disingenousness, and spiritual pridefulness going on in this forum, on both sides! Sometimes, we need to be more fearful of the other sheep, than the wolf! You are obviously well versed, and well catechised, but from time to time, you have trouble seeing the forest for the trees:D And also, presuming to know what another man thinks, or means, is dangerous!
 
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