Jesus Christ is our only 'mediator' as stated by St. Paul

[placido]

elvisman, oops, I mean placido: I do believe in order, and I also know that Our God, the One and only Holy Father, is a God of order; just look at His Creation, and look at us! However, there comes a point, where TOO much order, imposed usually by MAN, can be repressive, and then you have rebellion

That is true what you are saying, however who is to determine what is too much order? What you consider too much, I don’t consider too much. Who is to decide - you or me?

I work in prison, and their are rules, but on occasion, somebody feels like that badge gives them more authority than the law allows! I have found that if you are firm, fair and consistent in your application of the regulations, you will have order! I have a lot of catholic friends, who when talking to me, almost every other word is a curse word, with a couple of co-workers, even using GD it!

Are you sure they “curse” because of Catholicism or is it maybe because of culture? I am asking because believers in my country - whether Catholic or not - don’t behave like that.

They talk about how drunk they got the night before, and one is even bragging about how he has been cheating on his wife, in fact has sired two children with his mistress

If you love them like you love yourself, pray for them and correct them.
I am also of the working class. In my office I am the only Catholic and am the only one who don’t drink. My colleagues inclue members of the Apostolic Faith Mission, the Dutch Reformed and Lutherans - and they all drink and smoke but I don’t blame their churches, I try to convince them but as you know, they won’t listern to a “papist”.

They all say, "It’s okay, I’m going to confession tomorrow!

Any true Catholic will tell you how he/she was taught that confessing deliberate sin is useless.

And as for JP II, I do not see my quoting him as hypocrisy, rather showing how one of your own, did not shut out those who are not catholic, but gave them the hope of salvation!

Firstly, why do you need to be given hope by a Pope?
Secondly, if what Pope JPII said was novel, why was he not accused of heresy? You see, that was not news for us because that is precisely what we believe.

Imagine your despair, if someone told you, “The only way you’ll see Heaven, is if you convert to catholicism”.

Why not just ignore him? Will you worry if a Muslim said the same to you? The fact that you don’t just ignore him is because your heart tells you his statement carries some truth.
FYI: the Catholic Church teaches that any one who was baptized a Trinitarian baptism is a true Christian. Take note of that and then we can procceed.

And lastly, people leave churches for various reasons, whether it is being undercatechised, feeling repressed, don’t like the music, not being fed, etc. Man separates man from the Body, or walks away from their faith! Christ is always there for you,“I will never leave you or forsake you”. And just because I disagree with JPII, and all other popes, does not mean I do not respect them!

We do have some common ground after all.

placido

 

[elvisman]

elvisman: I should probably consider it an honor to be rebuked by you Invincible ignorance, huh? Is this another "made up term like purgatory, and transsubstantiation? It sounds like you’re saying that if one is ignorant of the teachings of Christ, they can be saved! There are many ways to interpret JPII’s words(as there are to interpret everything). One could be that JPII, was reminding us non-catholics, that God is merciful, and can save us from eternal destruction as well. Did Our Holy Father say, “I will show mercy to whom I choose?”(Romans 9:15) Bottom line is, no matter how much you catholics hate us non-catholics, I know I’m going to Heaven, how ‘bout youse? Will I/have I stumbled along the way, and will I stumble some more? Of course, but because of Christ’ promise in John 3:16, I have the hope of eternal life:thumbsup:

Invincible ignorance is an idea that is implicity taught in Scripture.
Again - you seem to have a really difficult time understanding these terms as they apply to Scripture.
Jesus taught invincible ignorance when he said (John 9:39-41):
***Then Jesus said, “I came into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see might see, and those who do see might become blind.” ***
***Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and said to him, “Surely we are not also blind, are we?” ***
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, ‘We see,’ so your sin remains."

---

This is what JPII was referring to - not that all Protestants will be saved. ONLY those who are blind by no fault of their own. Jesus also daid:
"but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." (Luke 12:48).

 

[elvisman]

My goodness, I am all that, really? I’m flattered, at least I don’t seem to have the blinkers, or is it tunnel vision, RC’s and Trinitarians seem to have, And what I was trying to bring to your attention was the “Oneness belief” - God IN Christ reconciling the world unto himself. As for John the baptist’s mother I’m sure she wont mind a term of endearment. You, elvisman, are too quick to judge, perhaps as a defence mechanism to cut short any discussion that may challenge your viewpoint of Scripture. It actually can’t be called yours because it appears you do not have a personal viewpoint but just rattle off what the Church teaches, Like the Church Father who stated that he would believe black was white if the Church said it was. I suppose if the Church said that Jonah swallowed whales you’d believe it and defend it to the death. So, discussing anything with you is a waste of time, you’re too set in your Church belief to see any logic in anything else. Enjoy your micro-cosmos

I’m not judging anybody - just telling it like it is.
The oneness belief is heresy - plain and simple. Oh, by the way - Catholics ARE Trinitarians. As a matter of fact, we were the very FIRST Christians/Trinitarians.

The Church father you attempted to quote was Augustine. What he actually said was:
"For my part, I should not believe the gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church."
He was simply trusting in our Lord Jesus Christ and his promises to the Church (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:13-15). He also knew - as we Catholics do today - that the Church IS the Body of Christ.

The sad part is that you don’t believe in Jesus’ promises or in the Body of Christ…
Ummmm . . . good luck with that . . .

 

[1beleevr]

placido: My hope comes from the High Priest, whose Name is Jesus:thumbsup: But I have met many a person, including those that we witness to during street ministry, who are quite fragile, and worry that there is no hope for them! And to hear someone like JPII say that ALL mankind can be saved, gives them some comfort! And as for my catholic friends and co-workers, I am not condemning them, rather pointing out the hypocrisy of professing to be a devout catholic in one breath, and then drinking cussing, and committing adultery in the next. But don’t get me wrong, these practices are not limited to the catholic church I know many from other religions, who are just as bad. There was a time, when I was right there with them; even though I was a Christian! Those were the times, when I was away fro God; and I am not proud of them But, as Christians,regardless of where we worship, are charged with insuring that the seeds of hope and freerist get planted!And it is not for you or I to decide how many rules are too much, or too little. But believe me, one can tell when someone is crossing the line, whether it’s in prison, or in church! There are some who for whatever reason, become drunk with power, and begin infusing their own agenda into the situation! I am not saying that order is bad, we just have to be careful how we apply it! Even churches are not safe from corruption and deceit!

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman: While I do agree that avflf is wrong on the Oneness issue, he/she has been able to nail you to the wall on a lot of issues, not the least your personality. And we can debate until the cows come homeM-O-O-O-O!, about what John Paul II meant in his statements about the availability of salvation Of course, if youpresent the Gospel to some, and they have the veil over their eyes, such as the Pharisees did, they will reject it out of pride( an enemy to grace), and ignorance! To paint non-catholics with the same broad brush, without knowing what is in their hearts(God’s domain), is in itself ignorance, something that avflf has pointed out about you! We are al Christians here(well most of us), and neither you or any of your catholic cohorts, can play the role of God, and shut us out of the Kingdom! I do look forward to seeing you on the other side, even though I’ll probably have to wait until you clear purgatory

 

[placido]

placido: My hope comes from the High Priest, whose Name is Jesus:thumbsup:

Glory be to the Lord our God!

But I have met many a person, including those that we witness to during street ministry, who are quite fragile, and worry that there is no hope for them! And to hear someone like JPII say that ALL mankind can be saved, gives them some comfort!

Yes, I know. I was just wondering why speciffically JPII? Why not you or your pastor for example?

And as for my catholic friends and co-workers, I am not condemning them, rather pointing out the hypocrisy of professing to be a devout catholic in one breath, and then drinking cussing, and committing adultery in the next. But don’t get me wrong, these practices are not limited to the catholic church I know many from other religions, who are just as bad.

I agree with you there. For our evangelization to be effective and true we don’t have to blame churches for the shorcomings of members.

There was a time, when I was right there with them; even though I was a Christian! Those were the times, when I was away fro God; and I am not proud of them But, as Christians,regardless of where we worship, are charged with insuring that the seeds of hope and freerist get planted! And it is not for you or I to decide how many rules are too much, or too little.

I would have agreed with you, had you said that in your previous post. Instead, you complained about too many rules forcing people to leave the church - or something to that effect.

But believe me, one can tell when someone is crossing the line, whether it’s in prison, or in church! There are some who for whatever reason, become drunk with power, and begin infusing their own agenda into the situation! I am not saying that order is bad, we just have to be careful how we apply it! Even churches are not safe from corruption and deceit!

While complaining about to many rules, in your previous post you were at the same time painting a picture of lawlessness - people drinking uncontrolably, having extra marrital affairs etc. I was sitting here and thinking: this is not what is supposed to happen when there is too many rules …

placido

 

[1beleevr]

placido: My pastor and I do convey the message of hope; I am constantly sharing my testimony of how Christ has changed my life from the inside out!!! And as far as lawlessness because of too many rules, some will rebel, when they feel that the laws are too strict, or there are too many! Then there is the danger of taking our eyes off Jesus and putting them on man! God bless you my brother in Christ! We have a HUGE outreach tomorrow(Saturday) and I am so excited about getting to share the Gospel with others:thumbsup:

 

[elvisman]

elvisman: While I do agree that avflf is wrong on the Oneness issue, he/she has been able to nail you to the wall on a lot of issues, not the least your personality. And we can debate until the cows come homeM-O-O-O-O!, about what John Paul II meant in his statements about the availability of salvation Of course, if youpresent the Gospel to some, and they have the veil over their eyes, such as the Pharisees did, they will reject it out of pride( an enemy to grace), and ignorance! To paint non-catholics with the same broad brush, without knowing what is in their hearts(God’s domain), is in itself ignorance, something that avflf has pointed out about you! We are al Christians here(well most of us), and neither you or any of your catholic cohorts, can play the role of God, and shut us out of the Kingdom! I do look forward to seeing you on the other side, even though I’ll probably have to wait until you clear purgatory

**The only thing avflf has nailed to the wall is his fate - unless he denounces his many heretical views, of course. **

**Look - you both want to have your cake and eat it, too. God does things HIS way - not yours. I’m not arrogant or argumentative - I’m just presenting the Church’s viewpoint. It is totally up to you if you want to accept it as the truth or not. If you don’t like my personality, that’s okay - you can’t please everybody.

**As for what JPII meant - we can’t argue about that. He meant exactly what I said he meant. Only through rare cases of invincible ignorance can you make it to heaven outside the Church. He was simply echoing what Jesus precribed (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:13-15, 20, 21-23). Take it or leave it - and by your posts, you have chosen to leave it.
Remember what Jesus said:
Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21).

---

As for what happens when we leave this world - I hope that I - and you - both make it to Purgatory.

 

[heiscominginthe]

I take it you also deny the Hypostatic Union of Jesus?
Jesus is God. Mary was proclaimed Theotokos (God-bearer) at the Council of Ephesus in 431 which was convened to, among other things, fight the Nestorian heresy.

Are you saying that you agree with Nestorius the heretic?

God the Father has no beginning or end. Jesus was begotten of his Father, in the beginning, even before the creation of the heavens and and earth. Jesus is the first born of all creatures. The Father made the Son a life unto himself. John 5:26

The Son, the Word, the expressed image of the Father was begotten of the Father, and all of creation came to be by the will of the Father though the Son by the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

The Father gave his Son his Holy Spirit without measure, making it not robbery to call the Son himself as God. In Hebrews 1, the Father himself calls the Son God, so who are we to not do that very thing.

As for the multitude of councils, all it proves is that men seek God without God’s help instead of letting God reveal himself to them. And what I discover upon reading the councils and their decisions is that men are always trying to complicate the simplicity of God and just as Jesus went to the common folk to get his apostles, it seems the philosophies and theologies of men try and steal the glory of God from the simple folk replacing it with their own idealogies stating the ignorant or common men need the rocket scientists to explain God to them. Yet, little do they realize is the glory they steal they give to the god of this world.

 

[placido]

placido: My pastor and I do convey the message of hope; I am constantly sharing my testimony of how Christ has changed my life from the inside out!!!

That is what every Christian is supposed to be doing. I was just wondering what makes JPII different if what he said is precisely what you, your pastor and other Christians are saying.

And as far as lawlessness because of too many rules, some will rebel, when they feel that the laws are too strict, or there are too many! Then there is the danger of taking our eyes off Jesus and putting them on man!

But in real life, the more people rebel, the more rules are added …

God bless you my brother in Christ! We have a HUGE outreach tomorrow (Saturday) and I am so excited about getting to share the Gospel with others:thumbsup:

You see, I like what you are doing, having done that myself for the past 25 years. What I don’t like is sectarianism, people who instead of preaching Christ go out proclaiming false end times, mistaking this or that person for the antichrist or saying this or that church is the “Whore”.

placido

 

[elvisman]

God the Father has no beginning or end. Jesus was begotten of his Father, in the beginning, even before the creation of the heavens and and earth. Jesus is the first born of all creatures. The Father made the Son a life unto himself. John 5:26

The Son, the Word, the expressed image of the Father was begotten of the Father, and all of creation came to be by the will of the Father though the Son by the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

The Father gave his Son his Holy Spirit without measure, making it not robbery to call the Son himself as God. In Hebrews 1, the Father himself calls the Son God, so who are we to not do that very thing.

As for the multitude of councils, all it proves is that men seek God without God’s help instead of letting God reveal himself to them. And what I discover upon reading the councils and their decisions is that men are always trying to complicate the simplicity of God and just as Jesus went to the common folk to get his apostles, it seems the philosophies and theologies of men try and steal the glory of God from the simple folk replacing it with their own idealogies stating the ignorant or common men need the rocket scientists to explain God to them. Yet, little do they realize is the glory they steal they give to the god of this world.

What is wrong with you people?
Jesus was created? Jesus is GOD - he was not created. All things were created through HIM.

John 1:1-4 EXPLICITLY staes:
**In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ****He was in the beginning with God. ****All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be ****through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; **
**This is not only taught fropm Catholic pulpits but from every major Protestant denomination.
This is the frightening reality that Protestantism has spawned - wacky beliefs.

 

[altabz]

elvisman: I should probably consider it an honor to be rebuked by you Invincible ignorance, huh? Is this another "made up term like purgatory, and transsubstantiation? It sounds like you’re saying that if one is ignorant of the teachings of Christ, they can be saved! There are many ways to interpret JPII’s words(as there are to interpret everything). One could be that JPII, was reminding us non-catholics, that God is merciful, and can save us from eternal destruction as well. Did Our Holy Father say, “I will show mercy to whom I choose?”(Romans 9:15) Bottom line is, no matter how much you catholics hate us non-catholics, I know I’m going to Heaven, how ‘bout youse? Will I/have I stumbled along the way, and will I stumble some more? Of course, but because of Christ’ promise in John 3:16, I have the hope of eternal life:thumbsup:

but because of Christ’ promise in John 3:16, I have the hope of eternal life:thumbsup:
"We are told in this verse to believe in him and come to him and believing in him means obeying his orders also right?

What are God’s order to us my friend?

First Jesus established a Church and called it “My Church” (Mat.16:18)
In fact this Church is his Mystical body that’s what he said when Paul prosecute it “I am Jesus, whom you are prosecuting”(Acts9:4-5)

*This means that if we love him we should come to him, to his Church because it’s his body you need to come to him to be saved not just by believing in him in distance you should be with him.

 

[Ignatius]

Your doctrine of the Trinity makes God a . . . .

So, just curious, which are you - Jehova Witness, Mormon, or Muslum?

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman: Blah, blah, blah…yada, yada, yada! Geez! The thing is we just don’t want your poison cake And before He established His church, He offered ALL people the gift of salvation, not just catholics! And when we get to Heaven, we will NOT all be catholic; we will be saints, worshipping an praising our Saviour forever and ever!!! And don’t wait up for me, at purgatory, I don’t have to stop there; remember, non-catholic Avflf, and others have exposed you for what you are, aloud gong clanging, calling it the truth. I read that piece by JPII and, I know he took some flak from hard core catholics, for extending the hope of salvation to ALL mankind! Would you look a non catholic in the eye and tell him/her that they are not saved, or do you believe that all things are possible with God? Rest easy, my catholic brother in Christ, we would be "cafeteria " catholics, if we decided to convert, and I know you don’t want that!

 

[altabz]

elvisman:before He established His church, He offered ALL people the gift of salvation;!

Exactly and where would you receive this salvation? To Christ right soo that’s the reason why he made a Church his mystical body. Soo that in his Church we will recieve the salvation he offer…,That’s the reason why “faith alone” is not enough we also need to come to him thru his body the Church…

I’ll make a simple story for you to understand what we Cahtolics are trying to say.

salvation=gift
Church=place where you can claimed the gift of salvation.

It goes like this Christ came to this world to save us he did this by sacrificing himself to the cross, he purchase all our sins by his blood. Before he went up to heaven he established a Church of cors even though salvation is for free but Christ demand a requirements from us. What are this requirements on top of the list are:

baptism— it whip out sins although infants don’t faith yet they still inheret our ancestors adam and eve curse. That is the reason why we baptist infants.
repentance—we need to ask forgiveness to show Christ that we want to be with him again.
faith----we need to believe in his salvific power and promise to us…
But there are different kinds of faith which one is for Christ;

evils’ faith= this equals to “faith alone” scripture told us that even demons tremble to him

dead faith= this is also equivalent to “faith alone” this faith is alternative to “evil’s faith” lucifer’s strategy her is simple if he can’t force you to do evil then better do nothing than do good…that still count to his favor. win win strategy we called !!!

living faith=this faith is the faith that God require us to have it will not save us alone but without it we can’t be saved either. This faith is with action as what St. James said and even Christ preached this one. I’m pretty sure you already read the sermon in the mount in the Gospel of John. He told us to obey his commands, obedience not simply means obey of words like merely saying yes I obey you need to show it to your actions. Live the life of charity, feed the hungry help the poor, and even went further and told us love your enemy because as he said if you can’t love the one that you can see how much thus you can’t see he was obviously referring to God.

Claiming salvation is like claiming a scholarship: Salvation is like a scholarship you didn’t earn it it is given for free. But as I said scholarship need requirements like salvation also Christ demand requirements thus I menationed above. Again I will put this in to a simple story for you to understand it very will.

scholarship=salvation(thru his grace)
Christ=giver of the scholarship
Church=the place to pass your requirements and claimed your scholarship.

Let the story begin, here God purchase salvation for us he uses his blood as payments. And then gave it to us but since he will left physically he established a Church and institution assigned to keeping the requirements for that salvation. Like a scholarship you need to pass the requirements to the institution that provides it.

My point is that after Christ left you protestants dis obey the institution(Church) of the giver (Christ). And to make matters worst you made another institutions (churches 200,000) and counting! Adding insult to injury you also set another rules in claiming the salvation(scholarship). Chirst before leaving clearly installed representatives(apostles) and appoint a leader(Peter,the rock) as temporary admininstrator of his office. Since he will not comeback immediately he told the apostles to appoint successors(apostolic succision). And breathed the apostles and impose his hands over them and promise them to guide his institution until the end of time.

In this Church you can claimed the free gift of salvation that he gave to us but you need to pass the requirements, baptism,repentance, living faith,obedience. Thus this is the only accredited institution that Christ made and salvation it offers. Christ never gave it to anyone else not to luther,king henry, joseph smith,charles taze,john wesly, johm smith, nor to james and ellen white not even to the denomination that you belong. Only to his apostles and successors in the Church. So even if Christ offer it to all people you can only claimed to the right place his church. Soo even if you believe in Christ but your not in the church he established. The salvation that you believe to have which you claimed from other institution is fake and can’t save you or like the scholarship fake

 

[elvisman]

elvisman: Blah, blah, blah…yada, yada, yada! Geez! The thing is we just don’t want your poison cake And before He established His church, He offered ALL people the gift of salvation, not just catholics! And when we get to Heaven, we will NOT all be catholic; we will be saints, worshipping an praising our Saviour forever and ever!!! And don’t wait up for me, at purgatory, I don’t have to stop there; remember, non-catholic Avflf, and others have exposed you for what you are, aloud gong clanging, calling it the truth. I read that piece by JPII and, I know he took some flak from hard core catholics, for extending the hope of salvation to ALL mankind! Would you look a non catholic in the eye and tell him/her that they are not saved, or do you believe that all things are possible with God? Rest easy, my catholic brother in Christ, we would be "cafeteria " catholics, if we decided to convert, and I know you don’t want that!

**I wouldn’t look anybody in the eye and tell them they’re saved OR damned - because there is no such thing as being fully saved until you die. **You’ve already been shown the Scriptures that prove this, my stubborn friend.

And you keep misrepresenting what JPII said about salvation for those outside the Church. What he said did not go against Catholic teaching - you just choose to twist it - as you do the Scriptures (2 Pet. 3:16).
Unfortunately, you don’t appear to fit the bill for invincible ignorance - only spiritual pride and arrogance . . .

 

[altabz]

elvisman:Rest easy, my catholic brother in Christ, we would be "cafeteria " catholics, if we decided to convert, and I know you don’t want that!

You want to be save?you need to believe in Christ. And if you can’t believe in his Church the mystical body of Christ how can you believe Christ himself that you can’t see? My be you will answer “faith alone” But Christ said the church is his body and he is the head of his church. Soo if you’re telling me that you believe the head of the church which is Christ and can’t believe his body the church that’s a pathetic lie…!

You want to be save? You need to love Christ. And if you can’t love his Church the mystical body of Christ how can you love Christ himself that you can’t see? My be you will answer “faith alone” But Christ said the church is his body and he is the head of his church. Soo if you’re telling me that you love the head of the church which is Christ and can’t love his body the church that’s a pathetic lie…!

 

[avflf]

So, just curious, which are you - Jehova Witness, Mormon, or Muslum?

None of the above, Ignatius, Just someone that has studied the Bible without being subjected to the prejudices that denominations bring, for if one belongs to one of the conventional churches one tends to accept their interpretation uncritically, in fact the thought wouldn’t cross their minds that, maybe, the church interpretation might be wrong. Why think for yourself if you have others doing it for you? The Trinity is wrong, period. As is the Rapture.

 

[onenow1]

None of the above, Ignatius, Just someone that has studied the Bible without being subjected to the prejudices that denominations bring, for if one belongs to one of the conventional churches one tends to accept their interpretation uncritically, in fact the thought wouldn’t cross their minds that, maybe, the church interpretation might be wrong. Why think for yourself if you have others doing it for you? The Trinity is wrong, period. As is the Rapture.

Quote= onenow1. Indeed you bring none of your owh prejudices to bear.

Peace and God Bless
onenow1

 

[guanophore]

So confessing my sins to Jesus will not save me?

Heis, you have embraced so many heresies at this point that the Apostles would not consider you to be a member of the One Body of Christ. You have been carried away by “a different gospel”. However, we are all saved by grace, through faith, nad certainly you may be saved through invincible ignorance.

So scripture is not bible based?

Please read it again, heis. the Church founded by Christ is not “bible based” as you have been led to believe.

Does not the written Word come from spiritually moved men who are submissive to the will of God?

Yes. Jesus had already built His church upon them at the time they wrote. Their faith did not come from the Bible, but from Jesus.

And once it is written, does it not stand as proof and reproof. And once written, does it not become bible based?

No. Your statement makes no sense. The Church did not come from the Bible.

I believe the apostles were chosen for the purpose of bringing about the Word of God into writing, establishing it from what was already written on the fleshly tablets of their hearts. Yet, it was written.

Well, you are in error, in that case. They were chosen to shepherd the flock of God which was given into their care. The Scriptures are profitable in that task.

Let me ask you this, when Jesus rebuked the devil in the wilderness, he said, it is written.
So my question is, was it written in heaven or on earth?

Either, or both, the Church is not “bible based”. The Bible did not produce the Church. The Church produced the Bible.

So if it is not written, then why do you continue to believe it?

Because the Word of God was imutable prior to it being written.

Scripture talks of believers on earth praying for eachother. Yet, it says nothing of praying to those in heaven to make intercession for us. It does say that Christ makes intercession for us, so let us stick with the what is written.

If you wish to have a limited spiritual experience, then you can do that. Catholics embrace all the Jesus did and taught, including what was not written. It is not appropriate for you to come to a Catholic forum, and try to pull Catholics away from the faith committed to them by the Apostles.

The appearing witness by the apostles were for the benefit of the apostles. For what they witnessed was not of this world, revealing to them even more that Jesus Christ is Lord. Does it not also say they Jesus was visited at times by angels?

I agree, it was to demonstrate the communion of saints to the Apostles, and for them to understand that those who have gone on before us in the faith are able to know what goes on here on earth, and participate with us.

Yet, intercession comes only by way of the Son.

He is gracious and generous,and permits us to participate.

It doesn’t matter what forum I am on. As for being taught, do you not know that when a man is born again, the Word of God is written in his heart? Who is the greater teacher, the Holy Spirit or men? And when one does learn a truth from a man, does not the truth come from the Holy Spirit?

Each man is influenced by his own perceptions and experiences. The HS does not lead different sheep into different directions.

Scripture, whether on the heart or on paper is scripture. I will stick with what is written.

Why are you here, heis? You don’t seem very interested in any “catholic answers”.

The only thing the CC did was compile that which was already written

Actually, this is false. They did do that, as well as many other things to bring scripture to the faithful.

CC had a monopoly on the Word of God.

It was written by, for, and about Catholics. It is wrong to separate it from the source that produced it.

And guess what, the CC sure did not offer up any scripture, for they believed that only the priests and above were to control the Word of God, including interpretation.

This is also a false statement. You have been misled about the Catholic Church. Did you no know that the inventor of the printing press was a Catholic, and that the bible was the first book he printed?

Yet, a God filled man named William Tynsdale gave his life in order to get the Word of God into the hands of men. And he was put to death by order of the CC.

You are reading a corrupted hisotry, heis. The Catholic Church has no authority to issue such an order.

Well, for every time you claim I am promoting anticatholic propaganda, I could claim your lack of faith in the written Word of God. It is for that reason why you claim I am anticatholic.

Actually, no. Catholics have as much faith in the Scripture. We just believe that it should be interpreted according to the Teaching of the Apostles that produced it. You are outside the boundaries of the Apostolic Teaching, and have created “a different gospel” based upon your understanding (or misundersanding) of what is written.

The reasons you are anticatholic are very numerous, and stretch way beyond the role of scripture in the Christian life. You have just offered an anti-Catholic rendering of history to demonstrate this.

What is curious is that you are here, given what you seem to believe about the Catholic faith.