To say that Mary is the Mother of God is to say that Mary was before God and if she had not existed, how could God exist. Mary would have to have always been, without a beginning and without an end. For God is without beginning or end.
I appreciate what you wrote above. The reason why you have understanding is because we share in the river of truth known as the Holy Spirit.
I take it you also deny the Hypostatic Union of Jesus?
Where in the Bible can you show that grace flows through her? Through Jesus Christ grace is mediated. For “it is by grace” that we have been saved and we are saved by the blood of Christ Jesus, for believing that He is the Messiah and rose again the third day.
Adam and Eve were 100 % human but they apparently did not have two human parents. So you are mistaken once again.
And what is wrong with word of the mouth?
Ok, you believe Jesus is semi-human and semi-God
This is “warped” beyond recognition. Is the Holy Spirit the Son of God or where do the idea of God becoming Jesus’ uncle come from?
(Romans 5:12). However, she was chosen by God, because of her willingness, her humility(something we could all use more of), and her servan’t heart. And a petition has been sent to God by the church? How would that work, through prayer? Because, most Christians that I know, refer to God, our Redeemer as Holy Father, not the pope, a mere mortal man, with a sin nature. And not everyone requires an intercessor, other than Christ
But I personally do not have a problem with ANYONE using Mary or the saints as intercessors. I don’t NEED to use anyone else but Jesus! I do believe in intercessory prayer, for and with those on Earth.
Or the Way, for that matter. Peter did add 3,000 BELIEVERS that day, but he didn’t identify them as any specific affiliation. And thanks for thinking of me, as far as “possibly” coming home to the cc. I have a feeling that you wouldn’t want a “cafeteria” catholic, which is what I would be, due to the number of things I disagree with. And I am quite surprised that you got so bent about the topic of serving the Lord
I do not try to convict anyone, by sharing my experiences, just curious, as to what other Christians do And for someone who is so well versed in scripture, and pledges undying loyalty to the cc, and to Christ, wouldn’t you be considered disobedient, if you did not serve Christ, as He commanded. Believe me, I have not been the best servant, and have only, in the last few years, gotten beyond myself, and began to see the joy and benefits of serving others in His name. You rant about showing you scripture about the trinity, purgatory, etc., but you fail to show us where Jesus specifically said, "Let all who have sinned, go to the priest for forgiveness; therefore, it could be inferred, that this is what He means in John 20:20-23! And I didn’t mean that I don’t believe that God can’t give man the ability to forgive sin(with God, all things are possible), but iff He did, why would we need God? If the Law were designed to save us, would there be a need for Jesus? Only One has kept every Commandment! So, my young, brash, hard core catholic, I pray for you, that you will acquire humility some day, and you are right, you don’t owe anybody but God, an account of your charitable activities:thumbsup:**Again – you read the text, but God has not yet revealed the truth to you. **
And if I remember correctly, he did not say we had to be catholic Jesus offered salvation and eternal life to all, although in His infinite wisdom, God knew who would accept it and who would not! If the cc is the perfect church, why would anyone want to leave it? I am well aware that the reason(ad nauseum) that is given for catholics bailing, is that they are under catechised. Are there no other reasons? I will never change my affiliation, although I would rather be called a born again believer:thumbsup: Separated from man, not separated from my God!Your doctrine of the Trinity makes God a schizophrenic with multiple personalities – FATHER, SON and GHOST plus 7 Spirits (Rev 3:1). Let me try to bring your idea of the Godhead into a reasonable and logic perspective.Luke 1:43 states emphatically:
"And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
STRAIGHT outta the bible!
Congratulations, my uneducated friend - you have fallen into the Nestorian Heresy.
Most Protestant denominations adhere to the Hypostatic Union of Jesus. How is it that you don’t?
Boy, talk about going backwards in the wrong direction . . .
You’re absolutely correct (for once)elvisman:If we are indeed separated, it is not the doing of Christ, but through the exclusivity of certain religions, who shut those out, who choose not to follow their rules. Even pope John Paul II, said that ALL men could be saved
.This discussion already took place** 1578 years ago at the Council of Ephesus.**
Most of my catholic friends/co-workers feel the same way Jesus told us not to hide our light under a bushel, but to let it shine!! So, call it boasting if you will, but I boast only in the Lord:thumbsup:And while Jesus did not speak the word trinity, He did speak of all of it’s entities, and the word Bible is not in there, but He read from the words of Isaiah! Funny, there’s also nothing about confessing to a priest either, but some believe in itLiz had a hunch that the baby in Mary’s womb would have within him the “fullness of the Godhead”, meaning the Eternal Spirit manifested in the flesh. But as a man Jesus did not know everything .(Mat 24:36) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Not even God the Holy Spirit by the looks of thingsThis discussion already took place** 1578** years ago at the Council of Ephesus.
The heretic, Nestorius (like you) couldn’t understand that God was omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. He felt that the definition of God could only be explained by mere human logic and understanding. This is the sin of spiritual pride.
Unfortunately for him (and you) is that the Early Church squelched his heresy.
Just as there are 3 persons in ONE God, there are 2 natures in the same Christ.
As I’ve already educated you, this is called the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union which has been believed and taught by the Church throughout history and is believed and taught by most prominent Protestant theologians.
In short, Jesus is fully God and fully man. To deny this is HERESY.
Mary gave birth to the divine person, Jesus.
Got the picture now?
**PS - You never answered how and why Elizabeth calls Mary, *****"… *the mother of my Lord …" in Luke 1:43.
**You said that the bible *didn’t ***give her any such title . . .
Again - you seem to have scanned my post but didn’t really read it.elvisman: That is probably why so many non-catholics liked John Paul II, because he said in essence that no one was beyond the love of God and that all men COULD be saved:thumbsup: I am so grateful, that by the grace of God, we are all afforded the gift of salvation! It is not an exclusive club(unless you’re a catholic), I mean Jesus offered salvation and eternal life to the Samaritans! And not to belabor the point, but I shouldn’t have been surprised by your reaction to my excitement about serving my King
I apologize for calling you a Nestorian heretic. You’re actually plagued by a plethora of Heresies:
Okay, let us consider the alternative - a church without rules where people are free to behave like Ananias and Sapphira; free to behave like Simon Magus, where Matthew 18:17 is not applicable, etc … can’t you foresee the chaos and confusion? And God is God of order, not God of confusion.
Pope JPII said so many things you disagree with. Hypocrisy can be the only reason you quote him here.Even pope John Paul II, said that ALL men could be saved
I hope you do still remember that Jesus was perfect. Some people left Him nonetheless (John 6:66).
Of course there are other reasons - otherwise how do we explain that even priests and people with PhDs in Theology do leave the Church.
That is a “feel good” statement. Jesus founded His Church. His Church is One. To be separated from Jesus’ Church is to be separated from Jesus’ Boby - wheteher you feel good or not - that is the truth, and Jesus wants those separated to come back to the fold (John 10:16).
I work in prison, and their are rules, but on occasion, somebody feels like that badge gives them more authority than the law allows! I have found that if you are firm, fair and consistent in your application of the regulations, you will have order! I have a lot of catholic friends, who when talking to me, almost every other word is a curse word, with a couple of co-workers, even using GD it! They talk about how drunk they got the night before, and one is even bragging about how he has been cheating on his wife, in fact has sired two children with his mistress
They all say, "It’s okay, I’m going to confession tomorrow! And as for JP II, I do not see my quoting him as hypocrisy, rather showing how one of your own, did not shut out those who are not catholic, but gave them the hope of salvation! Imagine your despair, if someone told you, “The only way you’ll see Heaven, is if you convert to catholicism”.And lastly, people leave churches for various reasons, whether it is being undercatechised, feeling repressed, don’t like the music, not being fed, etc. Man separates man from the Body, or walks away from their faith! Christ is always there for you,“I will never leave you or forsake you”. And just because I disagree with JPII, and all other popes, does not mean I do not respect them! Invincible ignorance, huh? Is this another "made up term like purgatory, and transsubstantiation? It sounds like you’re saying that if one is ignorant of the teachings of Christ, they can be saved! There are many ways to interpret JPII’s words(as there are to interpret everything). One could be that JPII, was reminding us non-catholics, that God is merciful, and can save us from eternal destruction as well. Did Our Holy Father say, “I will show mercy to whom I choose?”(Romans 9:15) Bottom line is, no matter how much you catholics hate us non-catholics, I know I’m going to Heaven, how ‘bout youse? Will I/have I stumbled along the way, and will I stumble some more? Of course, but because of Christ’ promise in John 3:16, I have the hope of eternal life:thumbsup:My goodness, I am all that, really? I’m flattered, at least I don’t seem to have the blinkers, or is it tunnel vision, RC’s and Trinitarians seem to have, And what I was trying to bring to your attention was the “Oneness belief” - God IN Christ reconciling the world unto himself. As for John the baptist’s mother I’m sure she wont mind a term of endearment. You, elvisman, are too quick to judge, perhaps as a defence mechanism to cut short any discussion that may challenge your viewpoint of Scripture. It actually can’t be called yours because it appears you do not have a personal viewpoint but just rattle off what the Church teaches, Like the Church Father who stated that he would believe black was white if the Church said it was. I suppose if the Church said that Jonah swallowed whales you’d believe it and defend it to the death. So, discussing anything with you is a waste of time, you’re too set in your Church belief to see any logic in anything else. Enjoy your micro-cosmos