You haven’t even examined the evidence, so you are just blowing a lot of hot air.
Yet you reject the source of this revelation. GOD himself. After elequently describing all the wonderful expositions and usefulness of ART, MUSIC, LITERATURE, ect, created by man…
The passage doesn’t speak of the leaves of specific plants, but ALL seed-bearing plants. Many seed-bearing plants must be killed in order to provide sustenance. If these plants were given over as food, which they were according to Genesis, then God authorized their death.
All you’ve shown is that the Catechism uses the word decay, not what decay is meant to mean. I’ve given you the Latin Vulgate, the text from which all Church references to Scripture come from, and clearly demonstrated that the word for rot is not present in that passage. The passage in question is cited only twice in the Catechism, and in neither place does it discuss rot afflicting the world in general. In paragraph 400 it uses the passage to assert that creation has become hostile to man, and in 1046 it is cited in full to represent that creation has been damaged and awaits the Second Coming. No where does it define, or use, decay in the sense of rotting. Paragraph 400 comes closest when it refers to the returning of humans to dust, but this is after the passage is cited, and unrelated to 8:20, as it cites Romans 5 as its source alone.
Bewildering.
hecd2 said:
OK, Alec, you want me to debate you in HARD science, on your turf in comparative genetics and molecular biology?
No such document exists because such a view has never been considered heresy, nor has it been challenged in a heretical way. For such a document to be made, it would have to be heretical to believe that general death (as opposed to human death) entered the world only after the Fall, and it’s not heretical to believe that. My point is that believing the opposite is also not heretical, and therefore has never been formally challenged by the Church. The Church allows people to make their own discernment through reason and faith on this matter, as it does in all things that it does not declare Doctrine and Dogma, or a matter of current discipline. Your accusation that I hold to heresy is absolutely unfounded and insulting. The Church has never stated whether the “death” described by Paul is the death of humans, or death in general, but the Church has put its stamp of approval, without any reservations of the nature you present, on scientific explorations that take their foundations in the existance of death before the existance of humanity.
Errata. Make that unresponded to question found in post #196…I told you I was not facile with numbers.
I do have to point out that single use of the term evolution as used in CCC is this:
I am not exactly sure of Matt16_18’s ideas which have prompted some of the discussion, but it sounds similiar to things my husband has related about quantum physics. Much of that being speculative I’m sure, and in some cases sci-fi ideas being extrapolated, but based somewhat on science for what I understand. One book he wanted me to read is Schroedinger’s Cat - probably spelling that name wrong.
Charity, you took it upon yourself to reply for Matt when I had asked him a question (reference threads No. 197 and 200 ), please indulge me the same privilege by making a few comments you directed to Alec in your recent thread #291.
Such a view is heresy, because it makes God the author of death, instead of death being a consequence of sin.
Such a view is not heresy until it is fully defined what death is being spoken of. In 2000 years of Church history, the death being refered to has consistantly been the death of humanity in all official Church documents challenging heresies. The language used by Paul in the Greek and Latin specifically refers to the death of humans, and Genesis gives evidence of the deaths of non-humans prior to the Fall (I don’t believe you ever answered the point about Adam naming the animals in a manner that indicated their predatory nature either, as the Hebrew names do).
Parallel 3-D universes are all the rage among cosmologists today:
