"Jesus IS God!"?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

“One-third of a triune God” doesn’t work. The Godhead cannot be carved up like a pie. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God. Mathematics doesn’t work. Human words cannot describe it. (This is why arguing over the Filioque is ridiculous in the first place.)

Then why on earth are you entering this discussion arguing your point as if you know what you are talking about? Does not your so called “Holy Roman Catholic Church” try to discribe the so called “Holy Trinity”?

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

 

[JJ59]

I believe I said “I refer to the Messiah by the name that Father Yahweh gave His son.”

I never said “Calling Jesus “Immanuel” does anything to his Holy Name.” Nowhere in Scripture does it say “Jesus truly was “God With Us”, because he is God.”

Maybe you would like to accuse Yahshua of vanity!

Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34 A.K.J.V.)

Just because one says that Scripture interprets itself, does not necessarily means that they are not giving their own private interpretation to certain Scriptural passages by taking them out of context. There are also those who properly interpret Scripture in saying “You shall not steal.” and then they turn right around and disobey this teaching.

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

Yes. Bye saying “I refer to the Messiah by the name that Father Yahweh gave His son.” seemed that you were saying that you only refer to Him as ‘Jesus’ and never as ‘Immanuel’.

‘God With Us’. How else can it be interpreted? We call someone ‘God With Us’, It’s total blasphemy unless he is God!

Well, in that context, Jesus WAS actually crying out to God. He was addressing his Father. Another way to see it is that Jesus was quoting the beginning of Psalm 22. Either way, it’s completely different from how Thomas is supposed to have used it.

You say Thomas used it as an exclamation, Jesus did no such thing. The only realistic interpretation is that Thomas was calling Jesus his Lord and God.

Now, the whole Scriptural Interpretation thing is out of the discussion, but I must ask:
How do you decide how Scripture should be interpreted? And how do you know you’re doing it right?

I know I’m doing it right, because I belong (Well, almost) to the Catholic Church, which is almost 2000 years old and was given total authority by Jesus Christ himself!

God Bless you, Frank.

 

[Eggnotz]

Then why on earth are you entering this discussion arguing your point as if you know what you are talking about?

You’re right. What was I thinking?

 

[DLClark]

Frank what if you wrong and I can show you? Will you be open to this?

Darrel

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Yes. Bye saying “I refer to the Messiah by the name that Father Yahweh gave His son.” seemed that you were saying that you only refer to Him as ‘Jesus’ and never as ‘Immanuel’.

I never said that I refer to the Messiah as “Jesus”.

‘God With Us’. How else can it be interpreted? We call someone ‘God With Us’, It’s total blasphemy unless he is God!

As I had stated in a previous post, the word translated as “god” (el) does not always refer to Father Yahweh. I believe that a mighty one was with them like unto Moshe.

Well, in that context, Jesus WAS actually crying out to God. He was addressing his Father. Another way to see it is that Jesus was quoting the beginning of Psalm 22. Either way, it’s completely different from how Thomas is supposed to have used it.

Thomas was addressing Yahshua as "my master and crying out to Father Yahweh and addressing Him in saying “My Almighty One”.

You say Thomas used it as an exclamation, Jesus did no such thing. The only realistic interpretation is that Thomas was calling Jesus his Lord and God.

Yahshua certainly did cry out to Father Yahweh in exclamation! There are a number of Psalms that are prophetic of Yahshua.

Now, the whole Scriptural Interpretation thing is out of the discussion, but I must ask:
How do you decide how Scripture should be interpreted? And how do you know you’re doing it right?

This makes no sense at all! First you say “Now, the whole Scriptural Interpretation thing is out of the discussion …” and then you immediately turn around and say " … but I must ask: How do you decide how Scripture should be interpreted? And how do you know you’re doing it right?

Well, I’ll answer your question anway! Because I can read and nowhere in Scripture (which interprets itself) does it say “Jesus IS God!”

I know I’m doing it right, because I belong (Well, almost) to the Catholic Church, which is almost 2000 years old and was given total authority by Jesus Christ himself!

Well, you either belong to the Catholic Church or you don’t!

Nowhere in Scripture is it taught " The Catholic Church was given total authority by Jesus Christ himself."

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Frank what if you wrong and I can show you? Will you be open to this?

Darrel

This is an open discussion. Say what you have to say in this forum thread but, if you are going to try and prove such foolishness as " Holy Trinity, Jesus IS God!, deity of Jesus Christ, the pre-existence of Yahshua, and that he was a co-creator with Father Yahweh in the beginning, you are fighting a losing battle. I am quite familiar with these deceptive and demonic doctrines. I am here to teach the doctrines taught in Scripture, not the traditions and doctrines of men as inspired by demons.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Messiah (Colossians 2:8).

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our master Yahshua Messiah, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us (2 Thessalonians 3:6).

Trinity Links

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

The New Catholic Encyclopedia 1967: “The formulation ‘one God in three persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”

Catholic Encyclopedia 1991: “The term ‘Trinity’ does not appear in scripture” “(The Doctrine of the Trinity) - hammered out over the course of three centuries of doctrinal controversy against modalism and subordinationism”

The HarperCollins Encyclopedia of Catholicism 1995: “. . . scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the trinity as such in either the Old Testament or the New Testament.”

Trinity Links

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

 

[JJ59]

I never said that I refer to the Messiah as “Jesus”.

As I had stated in a previous post, the word translated as “god” (el) does not always refer to Father Yahweh. I believe that a mighty one was with them like unto Moshe.

Thomas was addressing Yahshua as "my master and crying out to Father Yahweh and addressing Him in saying “My Almighty One”.

Yahshua certainly did cry out to Father Yahweh in exclamation! There are a number of Psalms that are prophetic of Yahshua.

This makes no sense at all! First you say “Now, the whole Scriptural Interpretation thing is out of the discussion …” and then you immediately turn around and say " … but I must ask: How do you decide how Scripture should be interpreted? And how do you know you’re doing it right?

Well, I’ll answer your question anway! Because I can read and nowhere in Scripture (which interprets itself) does it say “Jesus IS God!”

Well, you either belong to the Catholic Church or you don’t!

Nowhere in Scripture is it taught " The Catholic Church was given total authority by Jesus Christ himself."

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

Well, that you call Him “Jesus” is logically deduced from the fact that that’s the name Yahweh gave Him. (Though I’ve noticed you prefer using Yahshua, which is cool too.) But that adds nothing to the discussion.

I’m glad you’re going to the original languages. At this point in time, though, I cannot respond to that. (I have a Greek/English NT somewhere, so then maybe that’ll help.)

Wow, that explanation certainly is quite contrived. As I’ve heard somewhere, the original Greek literally means “The Lord of me and the God of me”. Why would Thomas switch in the middle of the sentence from Jesus to God? Seems like a stretch!!!

Yes, I decided to continue on the Scriptural Interpretation because you insist on talking about that. (Also because it’s a topic I know quite well.) That’s why I said “but”. As you yourself once said, “context, context, context”!

Again, that Jesus is God is something that is LOGICALLY DEDUCED from Scripture. If you’re looking for everything to be totally spelled out the exact way you want it in the Bible, can you tell me where it says in the Bible that the Bible is our final authority?

I’m sorry to be frank, Frank (no pun intended), but you’ve been deceived. You want to believe that everything in Scripture has to be written out the exact way you want it. That’s false. We must use logic when interpreting the Holy Bible.

No doubt this will cause anger with you, but I’m just speaking what I think is the truth. As scripture says, “The Truth shall set you free.” The truth is in the Catholic Church, my friend.

God Bless.

Oh, and to answer your question, I consider myself to be pretty much Catholic, even though officially I’m not yet. I guess you could say I’m as Catholic as one can get without the Sacraments. I hope this message isn’t too long.

 

[JJ59]

Oh, and by the way, Frank, I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in any of these messages.

As you may have already realized, I’m not the world’s best debater, and I can sometimes get a little to “into” these discussions.

May God Bless You.

 

[planten]

Jesus IS God!"?

**We know, Jesus had a God to whom he prayed and called for help. So Jesus used to address Him as “God” and as “Father.”

There is no question that Almighty God was the God of Jesus.

Let us examine why Jesus used to call The God as his Father.

1. Was it because of love of God?
2. Was it because of fear of God?
3. Was it because God was really his Father?
4. Was it because he was Created by God?
5. Was it because Jesus was begotten by God?

The Catholics should please tell which of the above is true and add any more reasons to the list as you like. Welcome. Thanks**.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You do not dictate by what name I refer to Father Yahweh’s son. I refer to the Messiah by the name that Father Yahweh gave His son.

“There is NONE OTHER NAME GIVEN AMONG MEN whereby we must be redeemed.”

The Name Yahweh And The Name Of His Son Yahshua

YHWH

Gabriel of 12;

Yes and Amen, Yahshua = Jesus = God who saves = prophecised about by the prophets of YAHWEH = Emmanuel = God is with us…

Is there another you were refering to, because the bible doesnt, and I as a Catholic sure dont believe there is another; Why do you falsely believe Catholics beliieve in another God?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Kepha is not my paternal father nor is he my Heavenly Father. Yahweh is my Heavenly Father by inheritance and my earthly father is my paternal father by birth.

Gabriel of 12;

Boy, Iam sure glad you cleared that up, Kepha is not your paternal father, nor your heavenly father:thumbsup: If you think Cathoilcs believe this, you have a miscontrued view of the Roman Catholic church. I hope we do agree that Jesus gave Simon Bar Jona that name Kepha = Rock, and Jesus did not just call Simon Bar Jona’s faith Kepha as most non catholics and protestants misinterpret Mathew 16:14-18. Would you agree to Jesus statement in renaming Simon Bar Jona’s name to “Kepha” = Rock?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12;4921547:

No, Thomas did not take Father Yahweh’s Name IN VAIN

! Note that in the translation that you use the word “God” is not a name but, is an attributive title. Even if Thomas did use His Name, the context does not say that he used His Name IN VAIN.

The Name Yahweh

Baal Gad

Gabriel of 12:

Frank, some one has duped you into teaching these false translation interpretations here; If you believe that Thomas was a Jew, Jesus was a Jew and when Thomas spoke the name of God in public, if he was not addressing God in his speech, then any other way you propose or distort his speech becomes in “Vain” a mortal sin.

And Yes you are correct Thomas did not speak God’s name in “Vain” because Thomas addressed his name correctly to Jesus. Any other way you put it, outside this context, it becomes God’s name in vain a violation of Exodus 20:7 Commandment.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I believe I said “I refer to the Messiah by the name that Father Yahweh gave His son.”

I never said “Calling Jesus “Immanuel” does anything to his Holy Name.” Nowhere in Scripture does it say “Jesus truly was “God With Us”, because he is God.”

Maybe you would like to accuse Yahshua of vanity!

Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34 A.K.J.V.)

Gabriel of 12;

Good point Frank, but you missed the boat, when Jesus cried out he was truly calling to God the Father, Not crying out in vain as you falsely claim Thomas doing. When Thomas worshipped Jesus in front of him, not cried out and said "My Lord “AND” my God. For some unknown reason you keep missing the “AND”. Thomas was speaking directly to God the Son, not in vain, Just as Jesus was crying out directly to God the Father, not in a vain expression as you and your sources falsely interpret.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Jesus IS God!"?

**We know, Jesus had a God to whom he prayed and called for help. So Jesus used to address Him as “God” and as “Father.”

There is no question that Almighty God was the God of Jesus.

Let us examine why Jesus used to call The God as his Father.

1. Was it because of love of God?
2. Was it because of fear of God?
3. Was it because God was really his Father?
4. Was it because he was Created by God?
5. Was it because Jesus was begotten by God?

The Catholics should please tell which of the above is true and add any more reasons to the list as you like. Welcome. Thanks**.

Gabriel of 12;

Ok, planten; The Son of God = Jesus took on humanity for us to make an eternal sacrifice unto the Father for our sins, because there is no other in heaven, on earth, or under the earth who could accomplish reconciliation with God and humanity eteranally.

**Jesus fully human and fully divine, when Jesus speaks as the Son of Man from his humanity when he calls God the Father, Jesus is speaking for you and me from his perfect humanity unto God the Father, **because no one in all of creation has seen the Father, but Jesus has seen the Father, because Jesus comes from the Father, and the Father and the Son are One. Now when Jesus speaks from his Divinity, the wind, sea storms, nature, blindness, sickness, raising the dead, forgiving sins,even demons obey his Word and Command, just as they obey God’s Word, because Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.

To begin to understand these great mysteries, one has to accept that Jesus is the “Lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the World” as confessed by the last living prophet John the Baptist.

I have not exhausted this revelation here, nor have I touched this mystery yet, I have only introduced it here very briefly at that. I hope this helps, if you need deeper revelation, prayer may be helped, to explain more. So ask if you need more help?

Peace be with you

 

[juliamajor]

People-give Frank short shrift.read his website and links-he is obnoxiously anti-catholic.This guy is a troll .Don’t give him the time of day.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

People-give Frank short shrift.read his website and links-he is obnoxiously anti-catholic.This guy is a troll .Don’t give him the time of day.

I figured Frank was not seeking Truth, when he ignored Gen.1:26-27, but these give way to better understanding for others here seeking Truth. I believe Truth exposes deception, others viewing from the outside are not fooled, and see his exposed false interpretations.

 

[planten]

Gabriel of 12;

Ok, planten; The Son of God = Jesus took on humanity for us to make an eternal sacrifice unto the Father for our sins, because there is no other in heaven, on earth, or under the earth who could accomplish reconciliation with God and humanity eteranally.

**Jesus fully human and fully divine, when Jesus speaks as the Son of Man from his humanity when he calls God the Father, Jesus is speaking for you and me from his perfect humanity unto God the Father, **because no one in all of creation has seen the Father, but Jesus has seen the Father, because Jesus comes from the Father, and the Father and the Son are One. Now when Jesus speaks from his Divinity, the wind, sea storms, nature, blindness, sickness, raising the dead, forgiving sins,even demons obey his Word and Command, just as they obey God’s Word, because Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.

To begin to understand these great mysteries, one has to accept that Jesus is the “Lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the World” as confessed by the last living prophet John the Baptist.

I have not exhausted this revelation here, nor have I touched this mystery yet, I have only introduced it here very briefly at that. I hope this helps, if you need deeper revelation, prayer may be helped, to explain more. So ask if you need more help?

Peace be with you

** Gabriel of 12, you have bypassed my question. Please see my post again and let me know which of these things is true, or wrong? See again. You have not replied why Jesus called God his Father.

Let us examine why Jesus used to call The God as his Father.

1. Was it because of love of God?
2. Was it because of fear of God?
3. Was it because God was really his Father?
4. Was it because he was Created by God?
5. Was it because Jesus was begotten by God?

The Catholics should please tell which of the above is true and add any more reasons to the list as you like. Welcome. Thanks **.

 

[SHW]

Yes, I agree with you.

If we agree that Jesus is God, we can see that at the time of Jesus crucifixion, the beginning was.
Here’s what I mean.
The old had come to an end, nailed to the cross by death, but the new begun at the resurrection.
We have two distinct time periods that come to a “cross” road, the old/new.

For Jesus to, from the time He came to earth, must of necessity include all previous souls that ever lived and died in His redemptive work.

This takes Him to the beginning of mankind to His day and for all future generations.

That is why He is the Alpha and the Omega. (The beginning and the end)

He was the end of the first and the beginning of the second.

If He uses the same 7-day creation story, it means that He in physical practice must spiritually encapsulate all souls from the very start in His work of redemption…

Good points.
SHW

 

[Eggnotz]

People-give Frank short shrift.read his website and links-he is obnoxiously anti-catholic.This guy is a troll .Don’t give him the time of day.

Agreed. There is polite discourse and then there is grinding axes. I’ve been in too many discussions like this in the last 55 years to become fodder again for a circular, aporetic exchange discussing things that are ultimately unknowable. The chip-on-shoulder, petulant tone that discussions like this often take is just too irritating to allow a true exchange of ideas. I have more respectful discussions with non-Christians than I often do people who name the name of Christ. Go figure.

An honest question deserves an honest answer. Not much of that here I’m afraid.