"Jesus IS God!"?

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Who Is Yahshua (“Jesus”)

God
The son of the living Yahweh
One third of a triune “God”
ALL Of The Above

2 more options should be added.

Humble Slave & Messenger of God Almighty

None of the Above.

 

[ralphinal]

This is going to be a long, slow process. Oh well…

Let’s look at that Hebrew’s passage you threw out. But, just for fun, let’s go a little deeper

1
1 In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;
2
in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
3
who is the refulgence of his glory, the very imprint of his being, and who sustains all things by his mighty word. When he had accomplished purification from sins, he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4
as far superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
5
2 For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; this day I have begotten you”? Or again: “I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me”?

Clearly, the author is saying that while in the past, God used prophets, in Jesus he used his son through whom he created everything, who had the glory of God, and is God.

One issue down…oh, and show me where Jesus is a spokesman and not God based on this passage.

Now, back to John. It does not say Jesus is God. However, anyone who is able to retain a thought in their head for five minutes should be able to connect the dots.

Word at Beginning
Word with God
Word Was God
Word Created
John testified to the Word
Word became Flesh and Dwelt among us
Word not accepted by all
Whoever accepts Word has eternal Life

Now, for whom did John testify? Jesus
Who was not accepted by his own but for those who did, they have eternal Life? Jesus.

Jesus is the WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH.

Please tell me to what church do you belong? This is a tired, played out old heresy.

 

[LilyM]

Look up the definition of the English word ‘lord’ in your Funk & Wagnalls. Look the word ‘lord’ up in any Bible dictionary and you will find that this word does not always refer to Father Yahweh as translated.

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

If you can’t take the perfectly simple logical steps from the premises that
a) the Word WAS God and
b) the Word (God) became flesh

and deduce the necessary and irrefutable conclusion that c) GOD BECAME FLESH then you badly need to do a very basic course in logic.

having reached that irrefutable conclusion from John’s Gospel - who then does John propose IS this God become flesh? None other than Jesus, who Thomas acknowledges as God. Not the mere Son of God, not the spokesperson of God, but GOD!

 

[LutheranDK]

No, Yahchanan [John] 1:1 says in the translation that you have submitted “… and the word was God.”, not ‘… and the word was Jesus.’.

Because Jesus is “the Word”. The “Logos” of God.

Even Jehova’s WItnesses acknowledge that this passage speaks of Jesus, and that Jesus is the Word, which is why they have to twist their translation to fit to their theology.

The Greek text actually emphasize the divinity of Christ in the prologue to John than its English translation. This text is a clear example of High Christology if ever there was one. The only reason not to acknowledge this, is if one doesn’t want to.

 

[planten]

**There was a long passage from ralph about the word and word was god…

I present that below:

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.**

I do not believe that word was god and word was with god…( It seems a complex sentence.)

Yet I would like to know who is this john who taught all that? Is he a prophet of God or he is a messenger of God? or is he the Jesus speaking? Or did Jesus say (ever say) that word was god and word was with god? I would like to know who is John? Is it the one who wrote the gospel of John or he is John the baptist?

Did this person have the authority from some one to proclaim that word was God and word was with god etc. Please reply to each point. Thanks.

 

[Reuben_J]

Is Jesus God?

In short, this got to do with the faith of the believers who believe. No amount of scriptural passages and justification will change anything. It is whether one believe or not.

I believe that Jesus is God and can find many scriptural passages to support this belief, but for those who don’t they can always be understood in different ways even it is unreasonably flawed. The ultimate deciding factor is faith to believe. Fortunately for many Christians, their faith in believing have very often times translated to personal experience of ‘peace’, the ‘peace’ that the world cannot give.

 

[ralphinal]

**There was a long passage from ralph about the word and word was god…

I present that below:

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.**

I do not believe that word was god and word was with god…( It seems a complex sentence.)

Yet I would like to know who is this john who taught all that? Is he a prophet of God or he is a messenger of God? or is he the Jesus speaking? Or did Jesus say (ever say) that word was god and word was with god? I would like to know who is John? Is it the one who wrote the gospel of John or he is John the baptist?

Did this person have the authority from some one to proclaim that word was God and word was with god etc. Please reply to each point. Thanks.

I had said I was done with you, but this is an important matter, so I will break my vow to myself.

The John that is mentioned is John the Baptist. he is seen as the last of the Old Covenant prophets. He is the one sent to prepair the way for Jesus.

The John who wrote this was John the Apostle, known as the Beloved Disciple. The Gospel of John testifies to that at the end of the book.

Now, why would John say such things? Because he knew them to be true. This same Gospel tells us that not everything Jesus said or did was recorded, but only that which would be needed to show he was the Son of God and the Word made flesh.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I do not work hard to try and divide Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator. It seems that you have divided YOUR “God” into three. Nowhere in Scripture is it taught “God has revealed himself in all three distinct persons undivided in his Triune God head.”

Elohim - Singual Or Plural?

To Believe “Jesus IS God!” Is To Be Deceived!

Did Yahshua Create?

Gabriel of 12:

You just seperated God when you called him “Heavenly Father AND creator”. Tell me Frank; can you understand what God means when he states "Let US create man in OUR image. Can you explain why God speaks of himself in the plural from the beginning of creation? and then in verse 27 God created man in HIS image singular. Here is the scripture for your reference; If you can understand this mystery could you educate me here? IF you need help with this biblical interpretation Iam sure many here are qualified to help us;

Genesis 1:26
4 Then God said: **“Let us **make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground.”
27
God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.

 

[geometer]

**There was a long passage from ralph about the word and word was god…

I present that below:

18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.**

I do not believe that word was god and word was with god…( It seems a complex sentence.)

Yet I would like to know who is this john who taught all that? Is he a prophet of God or he is a messenger of God? or is he the Jesus speaking? Or did Jesus say (ever say) that word was god and word was with god? I would like to know who is John? Is it the one who wrote the gospel of John or he is John the baptist?

Did this person have the authority from some one to proclaim that word was God and word was with god etc. Please reply to each point. Thanks.

John 1:1-18 is poetry not prophecy. And, importantly John 1:18 is correctly translated as:

18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

So we see here that Jesus has not allowed anybody to see God, because “no one has ever seen God”.

 

[adelore]

**Believe what you will but you will die in your sin on that misconception; are you a Jehovah Witness? I don’t believe the Jews tried to stone him twice and in Nazareth try to throw Him off a cliff because He said He was a “good teacher”; I believe it was because He claimed to be God.

Luke 5:20 Seeing their faith, He said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven you.” 21 The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this {man} who speaks blasphemies? **Who can forgive sins, but God alone?****” 22 But Jesus, aware of their reasonings, answered and said to them, "Why are you reasoning in your hearts? 23 "Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins have been forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 24 “But, so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,”–He said to the paralytic–“I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home.” 25 Immediately he got up before them, and picked up what he had been lying on, and went home glorifying God.

I don’t believe the person was a Jehovahs Witness. I believe they are the somewhat newer movement of the “Assemblys of Yahweh”. Or even maybe a person off the “Eliyahs Forum”. I have studied some of their writings and even have a couple of their Bibles. I started to fall for some of their beliefs and then it hit me…how wrong they are. When they tried to tell me the Trinity was Wrong,

Then they “Preach” that you can’t use the word Lord, God ect. They all use the word Yahweh, (which I won’t dispute that part with them as after all that is Gods personal name) Yet and here’s the clincer…Their churchs all use the King James Bibles…that do have printed in them…Lord, God, Jesus ect. Yet they sell the “Book of Yahweh” on their website.

If they would even read any Bible, King James, Book of Yahweh, The Scriptures ect. They would find several times where Jesus, (or in using the hewbrew name, Yahshua) refers to himself and the father as One. Jesus says, “I and the father are one.” Can’t get much clearer than that.

They also believe in the old laws, (food, no pork, no fish without scales and no sea food,ect, clothing ect.) now mind you I don’t think this will hurt them at all, yet because of Jesus this was all taken away…finished. They pretty much live by the Torah, (first five books of the Bible) and ingore the New Testament, except to say they believe in Jesus and God, and the Holy Spirit, but not that all 3 are one and the same.

If they would only study the New Testament, they would find many things in the New Testament that show the truths and truely go hand in hand with the Old Testament.

My heart goes out to them and I pray for them…for truely they are following what Man has said and not what Gods word says.

 

[FCEGM]

This is going to be a long, slow process. Oh well…

Let’s look at that Hebrew’s passage you threw out. But, just for fun, let’s go a little deeper

Clearly, the author is saying that while in the past, God used prophets, in Jesus he used his son through whom he created everything, who had the glory of God, and is God.

One issue down…oh, and show me where Jesus is a spokesman and not God based on this passage.

Now, back to John. It does not say Jesus is God. However, anyone who is able to retain a thought in their head for five minutes should be able to connect the dots.

Word at Beginning
Word with God
Word Was God
Word Created
John testified to the Word
Word became Flesh and Dwelt among us
Word not accepted by all
Whoever accepts Word has eternal Life

Now, for whom did John testify? Jesus
Who was not accepted by his own but for those who did, they have eternal Life? Jesus.

Jesus is the WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH.

Please tell me to what church do you belong? This is a tired, played out old heresy.

You’d think “and the Word became flesh” would have been noticed by the OP.

 

[JonNC]

This is going to be a long, slow process. Oh well…

Let’s look at that Hebrew’s passage you threw out. But, just for fun, let’s go a little deeper

Clearly, the author is saying that while in the past, God used prophets, in Jesus he used his son through whom he created everything, who had the glory of God, and is God.

One issue down…oh, and show me where Jesus is a spokesman and not God based on this passage.

Now, back to John. It does not say Jesus is God. However, anyone who is able to retain a thought in their head for five minutes should be able to connect the dots.

Word at Beginning
Word with God
Word Was God
Word Created
John testified to the Word
Word became Flesh and Dwelt among us
Word not accepted by all
Whoever accepts Word has eternal Life

Now, for whom did John testify? Jesus
Who was not accepted by his own but for those who did, they have eternal Life? Jesus.

Jesus is the WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH.

Please tell me to what church do you belong? This is a tired, played out old heresy.

Ralph,
I was going to put in my 2 cents, but you’ve said everything that needs to be said and better than I could.
Jon

 

[East_Anglican]

If you think Jesus is a third of the trinity then you do not Adhere to the Athanasian Creed.

“And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.”​

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

 

[ralphinal]

If you think Jesus is a third of the trinity then you do not Adhere to the Athanasian Creed.

“And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.”​

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

You are right but I read the question differently. I was not thinking of the implications of what he meant by that. I just thought about him being the Second of Three Persons.

 

[djconklin]

I think Ralph pretty much covered it.

salaam.

Here, here!

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

**Believe what you will but you will die in your sin on that misconception; are you a Jehovah Witness? I don’t believe the Jews tried to stone him twice and in Nazareth try to throw Him off a cliff because He said He was a “good teacher”; I believe it was because He claimed to be God.

Luke 5:20 Seeing their faith, He said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven you.” 21 The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this {man} who speaks blasphemies? **Who can forgive sins, but God alone?****” 22 But Jesus, aware of their reasonings, answered and said to them, "Why are you reasoning in your hearts? 23 "Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins have been forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 24 “But, so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,”–He said to the paralytic–“I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home.” 25 Immediately he got up before them, and picked up what he had been lying on, and went home glorifying God.

Again, I am not a Jehovah’s Witness. The JWs believe that Yahshua (“Jesus”) pre-existed his birth. I have said from the beginning in this forum thread that I do not espouse to such a foolish belief as this.

The Jews stated that Yahshua was making himself out to be “God” because of the authority (power) that he was given by his (and our) Father Yahweh. They believed that “God” alone could forgive sin. They were not aware that Father Yahweh had given his son Yahshua all authority in heaven and in earth especially since they did not believe he was the promised anointed one of his (and our) Father Yahweh (The Messiah).

“But, so that you may know that the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins …”

Yahshua was given ALL authority by his (and our) Father Yahweh, and this included the authority (power) to forgive sin.

Yahshua was neither making himself out to be his (and our) Father Yahweh or claiming to be Father Yahweh. He never once claimed or proclaimed to be his (and our) Father Yahweh. Yahshua even went so far as to corrected them in saying that he was the son of man and the son of Father Yahweh. None of the apostles (those sent forth) or any of his disciple (students) never once claimed or proclaimed that Yahshua was his (and our) Father Yahweh. Even the Jews on a number of occasions asked Yahshua if he was the Messiah and never once asked him if he was “God”. In fact, at that time, no one had even thought that Yahshua was his (and our) Yahweh as is evidenced in the following question Yahshua had asked his disciples:

When Yahshua came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the son of man am? And they said, Some say that you are Yahchan who immerses: some, Yliyah; and others, Yeremyah, or one of the prophets ( 16:13-14).

No, at that time no one ever thought that Yahshua was “God”. When Yahshua asked them “But whom say you that I am?” Kepha replied “You are the Messiah, the son of the living Yahweh.” No, Kepha did not say that Yahshua was “God” but afirmed Kepha that flesh and blood had not revealed to him that he was the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh but, that it was Father Yahweh Himself Who is in heaven that had revealed this to him. Yahshua plainly stated when he was here on earth that his (and our) Father Yahweh was in heaven. Yahshua on a number of occasions throughout the so called “New Testament” made it known when he was here on earth that Father Yahweh was in heaven.

 

[SHW]

1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.”

One God in three persons: Blessed Trinity

All are equal to each other.

Philippians 2:5-6 "Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

**Baptize them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Name=Onoma defined:the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, AKA: everything that is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit

The trinity is pretty clear in Scripture, but not to the natural man.

“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
**

The Pope Changed Immersion (Baptism)

1. They acknowledge that the original formula for baptism was in the Name of the Savior, but the Pope changed it." Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913 edition, volume 2, page 256.
2. “The baptismal formula was changed from the Name of the Savior, to the words Father, Son and Holy Ghost by the Catholic church in the second centry.” Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, volume 3, pages 365-366.
3. “The early Church always immersed in the Name of the Savior, until the development of the trinty doctine in the second century.” Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53.
4. “The Christian baptism was administered using the Name of the Savior. The use of the Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in the early church history. Baptism was always in the Name of the Savior.” Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, volume 2, pages 377-379.
5. “Morover, there is no mention in the New Testament of any one being immersed into the name of the trinity.” Dictionary of the Bible, by Hastings, volume 1, page 242, 1906 edition.
6. “The term ‘trinity’ was originated by Tertullain, a Roman Catholic church father.” New International Encyclopedia, volume 22, page 477.
7. “The New Testament knows only one baptism in the Name of the Messiah, which still occurs even in the second and third century.” Schaff Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, volume 1, page 435, 1906 edition.
8. “The formula used was in the Name of the Savior. There is no evidence for the use of the trinity name.” Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, volume 2, page 384, 1958 edition.
9. “With the early disciples, generally, baptism was in the Name of the Messiah.” A History of the Christian Church by Williston Walker, page 87, 1959 edition.
10. Under Formula: “The former expression is used in Acts 2:38 and 10:48. The latter is used in Acts 8:16 and 19:5. See also Acts 22:16 … From these passages, and from Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 1:13 (was Paul crucified for you, or were you immersed in the name of Paul?), it is natural to conclude that baptism was administed in the earliest times in the Name of the Savior. This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to be singular - not triple, and was the later creed.” Encyclopedia Biblica, volume 1, page 473, 1899 edition.

 

[Frank4YAHWEH]

1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.”

One God in three persons: Blessed Trinity

All are equal to each other.

Philippians 2:5-6 "Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

The Johannine Comma
For there are three that that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

This verse is found in no ancient manuscript, and can be proved to have been inserted, perhaps in the fifth century, to support the doctrine of the Trinity. It is the one verse in the New Tesament which is entirely spurious, and has now been struck out from every good text. The Literature of the New Testament By Ernest Findlay Scott, Professor Emeritus of Biblical Theology, Union Theological Seminary, pgs. 267-268. See the proof on ‘Bible Researcher’ by clicking on the following hyperlink.

The Johannine Comma - 1 John 5:7-8

More Infomative Links On The Johannine Comma

Wikipedia

Theopedia

 

[JonNC]

Again, I am not a Jehovah’s Witness. The JWs believe that Yahshua (“Jesus”) pre-existed his birth. I have said from the beginning in this forum thread that I do not espouse to such a foolish belief as this.

The Jews stated that Yahshua was making himself out to be “God” because of the authority (power) that he was given by his (and our) Father Yahweh. They believed that “God” alone could forgive sin. They were not aware that Father Yahweh had given his son Yahshua all authority in heaven and in earth especially since they did not believe he was the promised anointed one of his (and our) Father Yahweh (The Messiah).

“But, so that you may know that the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins …”

Yahshua was given ALL authority by his (and our) Father Yahweh, and this included the authority (power) to forgive sin.

Yahshua was neither making himself out to be his (and our) Father Yahweh or claiming to be Father Yahweh. He never once claimed or proclaimed to be his (and our) Father Yahweh. Yahshua even went so far as to corrected them in saying that he was the son of man and the son of Father Yahweh. None of the apostles (those sent forth) or any of his disciple (students) never once claimed or proclaimed that Yahshua was his (and our) Father Yahweh. Even the Jews on a number of occasions asked Yahshua if he was the Messiah and never once asked him if he was “God”. In fact, at that time, no one had even thought that Yahshua was his (and our) Yahweh as is evidenced in the following question Yahshua had asked his disciples:

When Yahshua came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the son of man am? And they said, Some say that you are Yahchan who immerses: some, Yliyah; and others, Yeremyah, or one of the prophets ( 16:13-14).

No, at that time no one ever thought that Yahshua was “God”. When Yahshua asked them “But whom say you that I am?” Kepha replied “You are the Messiah, the son of the living Yahweh.” No, Kepha did not say that Yahshua was “God” but afirmed Kepha that flesh and blood had not revealed to him that he was the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh but, that it was Father Yahweh Himself Who is in heaven that had revealed this to him. Yahshua plainly stated when he was here on earth that his (and our) Father Yahweh was in heaven. Yahshua on a number of occasions throughout the so called “New Testament” made it known when he was here on earth that Father Yahweh was in heaven.

Frank,
In Bethel, Pa, there is a group known as The Assemblies of Yahweh (I know this because I was raised not far from there). Are you a member of this religious group? Just curious.

With some very tiny exceptions, those who believe in Jesus Christ as savior have believed in the Trinity, that He is the second person of the Trinity, from scripture, from the ECF’s, through the great schism, through the Reformation. Despite our disagreements, for 2,000 years, we have confessed together the nature of Christ as fully God, and fully man.
While I respect your right to believe as you wish, you have provided no evidence that comes anywhere near even getting me to think about maybe possibly for a tiny moment questioning Christ’s nature. The evidence of scripture and history is far too great.

Jon