"Jesus IS God!"?

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In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

2 more options should be added.

Humble Slave & Messenger of God Almighty

None of the Above.
“None of the Above” would not be a proper option and you could have chosen “The son of the living Yahweh” since Scripture teaches that one can certainly be a son of Yahweh and that the so called "New Testament teaches that Yahshua is the son of thie living Yahweh. I am well aware that Muslims do not believe that one can be a son of Yahweh.
 
Frank,
In Bethel, Pa, there is a group known as The Assemblies of Yahweh (I know this because I was raised not far from there). Are you a member of this religious group? Just curious.

With some very tiny exceptions, those who believe in Jesus Christ as savior have believed in the Trinity, that He is the second person of the Trinity, from scripture, from the ECF’s, through the great schism, through the Reformation. Despite our disagreements, for 2,000 years, we have confessed together the nature of Christ as fully God, and fully man.
While I respect your right to believe as you wish, you have provided no evidence that comes anywhere near even getting me to think about maybe possibly for a tiny moment questioning Christ’s nature. The evidence of scripture and history is far too great.

Jon
No, I am not a member of the Assemblies of Yahweh - Bethel, PA. This group believes in the pre-existence of Yahshua. I do not. No one in the so called “New Testament” believed in the Trinity and that Yahshua was or is the second person of the Trinity. We are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and in stuction in righteousness from the Scripture.

All scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Yahweh may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all rightous works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

The “all scriptures” in this passage was in reference to the so called “Old Testament” since, the so called “New Testament” had not yet been compiled at this time. We are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh.
 
No, I am not a member of the Assemblies of Yahweh - Bethel, PA. This group believes in the pre-existence of Yahshua. I do not. No one in the so called “New Testament” believed in the Trinity and that Yahshua was or is the second person of the Trinity. We are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and in stuction in righteousness from the Scripture.

All scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Yahweh may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all rightous works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

The “all scriptures” in this passage was in reference to the so called “Old Testament” since, the so called “New Testament” had not yet been compiled at this time. We are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh.
Thank you for ignoring my explination of John 1:1-18. It means so much to me to know that my work is ignored.

If you HAD read it, you would see that the Apostle John DID say that Jesus existed prior to his birth. Jesus himself said it. Before Abraham was, I AM he said. No one has seen the Father except the Son.
 
Please Read all these scriptures and understand that JESUS IS GOD.

John 10:30, Matthew 4:7, Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 41:4, Revelation 1:17, John 1:1, 3, 10, 14, John 14:9, 1 John 5:7, Romans 10:9, Romans 8:39, Luke 11:1, Luke 10:21, Matthew 21:27, Matthew 17:4, Isaiah 45:21-22, Exodus 3:14, John 14:9, 2Corinthians 4:4, Acts 7:59, Isaiah 9:6,Isaiah 44:6,I2 Peter 1:1, Colossians 1:16, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 10:30-33, John 14:9-11, John 20:28, Philippians 2:5-7,1 Timothy 3:16, Titus 2:13, Revelation 1:8, Revelation 22:13, Romans 5:8, John 20:25, Col. 2:9,Mat3:3,John1:23,Mal 3:1,1 Corinthians 9:1, Jude 1:4
 
Philippians 2:5-6 “Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,”

The Father is a He. The Word/Jesus is a He. The Holy Spirit is a He. Three persons. One God. All equal. One Blessed Trinity.

SHW
 
Frank4Yahweh,
  1. What Verison of the Bible do you use?
  2. If you aren’t a memeber of the Assemblys of Yahweh, What Church/Assembly Do you attend?
  3. How old is the Religion/Church you do attend? Can you trace your Religion/Church History back to the time of Jesus (Yahshua)?
  4. Since you keep refering to the Bible as the “so called” Old Testament and the “so called” New Testament, this is also a big one on the Elliyah Forum. Truely this Group lives mostly by the “Torrah”. (the first five books of the Old Testament)
Since you have stated that you are not a JW, (which I already knew due to my past studing with them) and that you are not a member or an attendee of the Assemblys of Yahweh, Yet you never did answer my question about if you were a memeber of the Elliyah Forum. This is where I believe you may be getting your information from. (I too once was a member there, so what you say sure sounds like the information from that website.)

In any event surely telling us what “Religion” or Church you attend, or are a Part of, shouldn’t be any deep dark secret. And so I’ll ask you straight out…

What Church or Religion are you a part of?

In your postings you truely sound like a person of the “Messiah/Jewish” type groups. I have no doubts you most likely worship on the Sabbath and keep all the Sabbath laws. Yet believe in the Savior/Jesus/Yahshua.
 
Thank you for ignoring my explination of John 1:1-18. It means so much to me to know that my work is ignored.

If you HAD read it, you would see that the Apostle John DID say that Jesus existed prior to his birth. Jesus himself said it. Before Abraham was, I AM he said. No one has seen the Father except the Son.
Gabriel of 12:
I know how you feel:( Frank ignored my post in #28 asking for his interpretation of Genesis 1, when God created man in OUR image?
 
Jesus said in His own words that He was God. In John 10:27-30 Jesus said that He and God the Father are one in union is giving eternal life to those who believe. Only God can give eternal life. If you continue on to verse 36 you will see how the Jews responded to Jesus’ words and why they took up stones to stone Him. They did so because He said He was God.👍
 
  1. “Morover, there is no mention in the New Testament of any one being immersed into the name of the trinity.” Dictionary of the Bible, by Hastings, volume 1, page 242, 1906 edition.
Not relevant, nor is any relevance shown.
  1. “The term ‘trinity’ was originated by Tertullain, a Roman Catholic church father.” New International Encyclopedia, volume 22, page 477.
Not relevant, the Bible also doesn’t use the term “monogamy,” nor does it discuss the use of heroin, cocaine or smoking a joint.
 
John 1:1-32 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made…10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 **But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: **13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’” 16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him…29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world…32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God!”

John the evangelist testifies that the Word of God is God and that the Word of God becomes flesh in Jesus Christ. John the Baptist also testifies that Jesus is the Son of God and that He baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Mark 2:7-11 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” 8 But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, 11 “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is also the Son of Man. He is both God and Man. Only God can forgive sins. Jesus forgives sins. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Jesus tells the apostles: Matthew 28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”

Jesus tells them to baptize in the Name of three different persons. These three different persons are the Blessed Trinity. These three persons are God.

Jesus gives His authority (which He received from His father) to His apostles so that they can forgive sins in His name:

John 20:21-23 "So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Only God has the authority to give His authority to others in order for them to be able to forgive sins in His name.

1 John 4:2-4 “By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ (Word/God) has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.”

2 John 1:7-8 “For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ (Word/God) as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.”

If any person does not believe the Word of God to be God (He is one of the three persons who comprise the one God), then he is of the Antichrist.

If any person does not believe that the Word/God came in the flesh as Jesus Christ in order to redeem mankind, then he is of the Antichrist.

All three persons of the Blessed Trinity of God are He(s): Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:

John 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”

John 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.”

Both God the Father and God the Son send God the Holy Spirit to the Church. He proceeds from both of them.

SHW
 
Please do not stop with the first verse. Read the whole passage down to verse 19.
 
Thank you for ignoring my explination of John 1:1-18. It means so much to me to know that my work is ignored.

If you HAD read it, you would see that the Apostle John DID say that Jesus existed prior to his birth. Jesus himself said it. Before Abraham was, I AM he said. No one has seen the Father except the Son.
I have not only read Yahchanan [John] 1:1-18 but, I have studied it in accordance with the Scriptures as a whole. I have some 30+ translations of the Scriptures in my personal library and there are many more translations that I have available on the internet to give reference to.

Yahchanan never said “Yahshua existed prior to his birth.” Show me a passage from any translation of Scripture QUOTING Yahchanan saying “Yahshua existed prior to his birth.” and I will certainly take it into consideration. That being said, I know for a fact that Yahchanan never made such a foolish statement as this.

What did Yahshua mean when he said:

“Before Abraham Was, I Am.”?

As for the translation that you have proposed (“No one has seen the Father except the Son.”), I would like for you to observe the following translations of this passage where it does not say that Yahshua seen the Father.
Douay-Rheims Bible* [Catholic]
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

King James Bible
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
No one has ever seen God. God’s only Son, the one who is closest to the Father’s heart, has made him known.

American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .

Bible in Basic English
No man has seen God at any time; the only Son, who is on the breast of the Father, he has made clear what God is.

English Revised Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Webster’s Bible Translation
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The word ‘see’ as used in Scripture does not always refer to what one sees with their eyes but, is also in reference to perception or understanding.
 
Jesus said in His own words that He was God. In John 10:27-30 Jesus said that He and God the Father are one in union is giving eternal life to those who believe. Only God can give eternal life. If you continue on to verse 36 you will see how the Jews responded to Jesus’ words and why they took up stones to stone Him. They did so because He said He was God.👍
No, Yahshua never said “I am God.” I do not side with the Jews who were out to trap Yahshua in his words. I side with Yahshua in that he said that he was the son of Yahweh. If you want to side with the Jews and believe them and not what Yahshua actually said, then have at it. The Jews falsley accused him of making himself out to be “God”. What Yahshua actually said and in correcting the Jews was “I am the son of Yahweh.”

Say you of him, whom the Father has set apart, and sent into the world, You blaspheme; because I said, I am the son of Yahweh? ().
 
If you can’t take the perfectly simple logical steps from the premises that
a) the Word WAS God and
b) the Word (God) became flesh

and deduce the necessary and irrefutable conclusion that c) GOD BECAME FLESH then you badly need to do a very basic course in logic.

having reached that irrefutable conclusion from John’s Gospel - who then does John propose IS this God become flesh? None other than Jesus, who Thomas acknowledges as God. Not the mere Son of God, not the spokesperson of God, but GOD!
Nowhere in any translation of Scripture does it say “God became flesh.”

You say that Yahshua is not a spokesman of Father Yahweh’s word and is not His son. This is nothing but a bold-faced lie!

I am not into twisting Father Yahweh’s inspired word.

… they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction ( 3:16).
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...180px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.png

John 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, 13 and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.

30 14 The Father and I are one."

I would say that about covers it.
Note that Yahshua says that his Father has given him the sheep. No, Yahshua did not give himself the sheep. Also note that Yahshua says that his (and our) Father is greater than all and that on another occasion Yahshua said:

"…for my Father is greater than I ( 14:28).
 
Hi, Frank4YAHWEH.

It seems to me that you continue to avoid the clear meaning and our arguments about the first chapter of John’s Gospel.

(I’m just restating what others in this thread have said)

We are told that a person called the “Word” was in the beginning.
The Word was with God
The Word was God
Then later, we’re told that the Word became flesh. The Word became flesh, the Word=God, God became flesh. Jesus IS God in the flesh.

Now, if you’ll address these arguments, I think we’ll finally get somewhere in this discussion 🙂 Thanks!

For an excellent analysis of the Jewish Wisdom theology relating to the divinity of Christ, see this article tektonics.org/jesusclaims/trinitydefense.html by Protestant apologist J.P. Holding.

God bless you on your journey searching for Christ’s identity!
 
Hi, Frank4YAHWEH.

It seems to me that you continue to avoid the clear meaning and our arguments about of the first chapter of John’s Gospel.

(I’m just restating what others in this thread have said)

We are told that a person called the “Word” was in the beginning.
The Word was with God
The Word was God
Then later, we’re told that the Word became flesh. The Word became flesh, the Word=God, God became flesh. Jesus IS God in the flesh.

Now, if you’ll address these arguments, I think we’ll finally get somewhere in this discussion 🙂 Thanks!

For an excellent analysis of the Jewish Wisdom theology relating to the divinity of Christ, see this article tektonics.org/jesusclaims/trinitydefense.html by Protestant apologist J.P. Holding.

God bless you on your journey searching for Christ’s identity!
 
Oh, and as for the first chapters of the epistle to the Hebrews, check out 1:6-12. Each and every one of those Old Testament quotes were addressed to God in their original context. To apply these texts to Jesus would be total blasphemy!

…unless, that is, Jesus IS God.

Let’s take a look at these OT quotes:
“Let all God’s angels worship him.” Unfortunately, this quote is missing in Deut 32:43. It was only in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the LXX. But it WAS applied to God, and, saying angels should worship Jesus, would go against what Jesus commanded (and was commanded before in the OT) in Matthew 4:10, unless Jesus is God.

Now the second one:
“Thy throne, O God, will last forever and ever.” This is the Father addressing the Son. The Father calls Jesus God! What more evidence do you need?

And the third and most compelling:
“In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth…” The Father is still addressing the Son. It quotes Psalm 102:25, which talks about God. To show Christ’s divinity even more in the Hebrews text, the author adds “O Lord”.

God Bless.
 
Frank4Yahweh,
  1. What Verison of the Bible do you use?
  2. If you aren’t a memeber of the Assemblys of Yahweh, What Church/Assembly Do you attend?
  3. How old is the Religion/Church you do attend? Can you trace your Religion/Church History back to the time of Jesus (Yahshua)?
  4. Since you keep refering to the Bible as the “so called” Old Testament and the “so called” New Testament, this is also a big one on the Elliyah Forum. Truely this Group lives mostly by the “Torrah”. (the first five books of the Old Testament)
Since you have stated that you are not a JW, (which I already knew due to my past studing with them) and that you are not a member or an attendee of the Assemblys of Yahweh, Yet you never did answer my question about if you were a memeber of the Elliyah Forum. This is where I believe you may be getting your information from. (I too once was a member there, so what you say sure sounds like the information from that website.)

In any event surely telling us what “Religion” or Church you attend, or are a Part of, shouldn’t be any deep dark secret. And so I’ll ask you straight out…

What Church or Religion are you a part of?

In your postings you truely sound like a person of the “Messiah/Jewish” type groups. I have no doubts you most likely worship on the Sabbath and keep all the Sabbath laws. Yet believe in the Savior/Jesus/Yahshua.
  1. I use a number of translations.
  2. I am not affiliated with any particaular religious denomination.
  3. Religion is who or what it is that you believe in. How far can you trace the inspired word of our Heavenly Father and Creator Yahweh? I trace it long before Yahshua ever came into existence.
  4. I am a member of numerous forums including Eliyah’s forum, and most certainly this one. This does not mean that I espouse to all the beliefs of individuals of these diverse forums. Most who visit Eliyah’s forum (including Eliyah himself) beleive that Yahshua pre-existed his birth and was a co-creator with Father Yahweh in the beginning. I do not! Did you note the disclaimer on Eliyah’s forum as to those who visit his forum? When visiting Eliyah’s forum, as also with this forum and many other forums, you will note that there are diverse doctrinal beliefs espoused to by the members.
As to assembling:

For where two or three are gathered assembled] together in my name, there am I in the midst of them ( 18:20).
 
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