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Auriel
Guest
Earlier I posted that I was just waiting for the “Jesus/Yahshua was not a Jew” comment. I see by Gabriel of 12’s comment to Frank that I DID miss it. My bad.
Wow, I get it now…
Wow, I get it now…
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Auriel
Guest
Frank, I am curious. I know you believe in following God’s Yahweh’s teachings. In your belief is it your trying to follow them that counts? What happens when you fail?
And by his teachings are you including all… the Ten Commandments, the Moral and Ceremonial Laws, and the Laws of Moses? There are over 600 of them.
And if you excluded some, how did you determine which ones were to be followed?
I was thinking about some of the old laws pertaining to women, I can imagine some of the fights that could cause!
And by his teachings are you including all… the Ten Commandments, the Moral and Ceremonial Laws, and the Laws of Moses? There are over 600 of them.
And if you excluded some, how did you determine which ones were to be followed?
I was thinking about some of the old laws pertaining to women, I can imagine some of the fights that could cause!
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SHW
Guest
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planten
Guest
**Gabriel of 12, that is not the right approach. It will not lead both of us to any conclusion. Because then I could ask " who told you Abraham was not God incarnate?" So you should believe that Abraham was also god incarnate. See?
Also “who told you Mr. Smith (of the mormons) was not God incarnate?”
You have taken a wrong unending road. Therefore please come to the point and it is your responsibility to tell me the answer to my question “Who told you that Jesus was god.?”
Let us remain on that please, unless you have no reply at all. Just tell me the name of the person who told all of you that Jesus was god.**
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Gabriel of 12:
Your funny planten; we are not discussing Abraham or Mr.Smith. I was not looking to end a road here, I really want to know who told you Jesus was not God?
I am not sure if you and I have the time here for me to list all of the confirmations I have recieved that Jesus is God incarnate? Would you prefer a testimony from me, it may take 20 pages of threads, but it would be alot shorter than listing all the confirmations I have recieved confirming Jesus is God incarnate.
That is why I posed the question to you? Who denies Jesus Christ Divinity? Knowing from you who told you Jesus Christ is not God incarnate, will help me explain to you; why I believe Jesus is God incarnate.
Maybe after this revelation; I can help you understand who told me Jesus is God. Because what you ask of me deals with spiritual realities that the natural person cannot understand the things of God. In other words what you ask of me in time, is answered in “Truth” from eternity. Because you deny Jesus is God incarnate subjects you to the world, and the answer you seek is not of this world. To gain the understanding of this; one must die to the world, and raise up in Jesus Christ through baptism.
Now if God has graced you and is calling you to His “Truth”, one must be open to recieving God’s grace and not anti- christ in the way of denying Jesus is God incarnate, but admit this is hard to understand to God, and it is, that is why God calls his children to faith in him, so that we do not lean on our own understanding but his grace calling us to faith.
Peace be with you
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planten
Guest
**Gabriel of 12, sorry. My post was relevant. If nobody told you that Abraham was NOT god then you should believe that Abraham was God, according to your own principle.
If nobody told you that Mr. Smith was not God then you should believe in Smith as a god too, according to your own belief that if nobody tells any one that so and so is not a god then he/she is a god incarnate. Do you see the problem of your counter question?
I do not need 20 pages of your reply. I asked just the name of the person who told you that Jesus was God.
I have not seen all the posts but so far no catholic, no christian has rationally replied to the question. Please try to reply.**
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Gabriel of 12;Hi,
I do see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying your position.
Pax,
SHW
Your welcome; If you allow me SHW, to finish my thought here, I had to leave quick when I closed my previous response to your question?
Pertaining to the 3 aspects of scriptural interpretation the Catholic church teaches, these are my words; I will not take them from the CCC, because citing text’s all the time, I believe does not really give authentic testimony to ones true faith in the Catholic church, if ones testimony of his belief’s can be explained by one’s own words that do not conflict with Church teaching.
Simply put the Catholic church teaches when reading scripture for it to have the full deposit of faith; One the interpretation must deal directly with the content of the text in its original time of revelation, Two the interpretation must not conflict with the Old Testament, that points to the text, or the text brings the old testament to fulfillment in time through Jesus Christ, from Prophecies, or Letter of the Law of God. Thirdly this interpretation must not conflict with Jesus and Apostolic Teachings by Letter or Oral Sacred Apostolic Traditions, when applied to the present.
In other words for the interpretation of scripture to be “Truth” or “Rock” immovable, it will contain the “Truth” pertaining to the Past, Present, and Future and it will not conflict with each other in any age, for God’s Word does not decieve nor cannot it be decieved. That is why the Catholic church is the custodian of (God’s word) Jesus teachings on earth, for Jesus built his Catholic church upon “Peter” or “Kepha”= “Rock”.
The position the Catholic church takes for biblical interpretation takes alot of scrutiny for it to be proclaimed. That is why only a Bishop, Priest or Deacon can read the Gospel at Mass and teach from the Gospel, because they are the custodians of Jesus teachings in every age, and the Magesterium along with the Pope in the protection of the Holy Spirit guarantees these teachings from Jesus and the apostles unchanged. The Catholic church hands on the full deposit of faith, she does not horde or keep it, her mission is to give it away, but not to cast her “pearls among swine”. She has been given much, and much is required of her, that is why the Catholic church has survived unchanged these last 2000 years.
Peace be with you
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Gabriel of 12;
“Tusche”, So your twisting my words; You have not answered my simple request of who told you Jesus was not God incarnate? then apply your own theory to your own principle, see why you cannot mix carnal knowledge with the Spiritual knowledge. You get yourself all mixed up in your own webb.
The answer you seek is in your denying Jesus is God; to deny Jesus is God is to deny yourself of this revelation; Suspend your denial, repent and maybe the same person who told me will tell you also. So if you ever decide to take a leap of faith, this person will speak to you in many ways, followed by signs and wonders that will take your breath away as it did mine, in the end, And if you do hear his voice you will be happy to know Jesus is truly Word of God made flesh, God incarnate, emmanuel = God is with us.
Peace be with you
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SHW
Guest
Hi planten,
Do you think that He is the Son of God, but not God? Or do you think that He is only a prophet but not as important as Mohamed? I need to know this before I can answer your question correctly.
Pax,
SHW
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K2CDS
Guest
In Mathew 28:17 and Luke 24:25 the apostles worship Jesus. Since worship belongs to God alone, how come Jesus accepted the worship and did not rebuke them?
In John 20:28 Thomas the apostle, when he see the resurrected Jesus, calls Him “My lord and my God”. Thomas recognized Him as God and knew what he was saying.
Again, in John 8:28, Jesus, when telling the Jewish authorities who He is said “I Am Who I Am”. And in John 8:58 He tells them that “Before Abraham was, I Am”. In Exodus 3:14 when Moses asks God what His name is, God says that He is called “I AM”, “I Am
who I Am…that is my name forever”.
There are many other proofs in scripture, both the old and new testaments, that Jesus is God the Son, and deserves our worship. I pray that the Holy Spirit opens your eyes so that you may see this.
In John 20:28 Thomas the apostle, when he see the resurrected Jesus, calls Him “My lord and my God”. Thomas recognized Him as God and knew what he was saying.
Again, in John 8:28, Jesus, when telling the Jewish authorities who He is said “I Am Who I Am”. And in John 8:58 He tells them that “Before Abraham was, I Am”. In Exodus 3:14 when Moses asks God what His name is, God says that He is called “I AM”, “I Am
who I Am…that is my name forever”.
There are many other proofs in scripture, both the old and new testaments, that Jesus is God the Son, and deserves our worship. I pray that the Holy Spirit opens your eyes so that you may see this.
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planten
Guest
**My reply to you and to Gabriel of 12 is as follows: (But I will reply to you SHW later)
Some people are telling me that Jesus is God. Some other people ( The Jews and the Muslims) are telling me that Jesus is not God.
I asked Gabriel and few others about who tiold them that Jesus was God. I wanted to know that, the name etc. Nobody is replying. So far nobody has replied. I do not need any lecture at present. No need of any long post yet. I just want to know the name of that person who told the Catholics that Jesus was god. Welcome. SHW also, please you give reply to my question. I have my beliefs. They will not change overnight. I will tell you all about your questions.**
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planten
Guest
K2CDS, thanks for guiding me to the answer care of the verses of the bible. i will keep your good work in mind because it seems to be a derived meaning. Thanks. Yet I was interested in finding out “Who told you people that Jesus was god?” Could you name any one please. But I would not press you because you have already done enough and I need not bother you so quickly. What you have written is well enough. Now I need more that is the name etc.
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Benadam
Guest
when a creature is fulfilling the reason God made it, it gloriofies it’s maker by fulfilling the purpose God made it to be. A creature cannot be glorified by it’s creator because it’s not the reason God exists. Jesus though states that He has glorified the Father and asks to be glorified in return with the glory He had in the beginning. Who has ever said such a thing?
Creatures can only recieve from God in as much as the creature is equal to God. There is no creature that God can give himself entirely to because the created would have to be equal to God. Jesus states that everything the Father Has he gives to the Son. Who has ever said such a thing?
God generates Cognizance of himself from eternity. God knowing God. Jesus say’s 'Only the Father knows the Son and only the Son knows the Father. Who has ever said such a thing?
The deepest kind of knowing requires the deepest union of likeness. If you have seen me you have seen the Father. Then Jesus teaches what true joy is ’ to know the Father’ here we see knowing as a union of likeness. Who has ever described their relationship with God this way?
Jesus said that John the Baptist is the greatest man born of woman. Is Jesus saying John is greater than Himself? that would make John a teacher of error. Is Jesus teaching that His Incarnation was not from the womb of Mary? That would be error. Jesus is saying John is greates of all the children generated by Adam born of Eve. Jesus is teaching He is not of this generation but is generated by His Father in heaven. Who has ever said such things?
Creatures can only recieve from God in as much as the creature is equal to God. There is no creature that God can give himself entirely to because the created would have to be equal to God. Jesus states that everything the Father Has he gives to the Son. Who has ever said such a thing?
God generates Cognizance of himself from eternity. God knowing God. Jesus say’s 'Only the Father knows the Son and only the Son knows the Father. Who has ever said such a thing?
The deepest kind of knowing requires the deepest union of likeness. If you have seen me you have seen the Father. Then Jesus teaches what true joy is ’ to know the Father’ here we see knowing as a union of likeness. Who has ever described their relationship with God this way?
Jesus said that John the Baptist is the greatest man born of woman. Is Jesus saying John is greater than Himself? that would make John a teacher of error. Is Jesus teaching that His Incarnation was not from the womb of Mary? That would be error. Jesus is saying John is greates of all the children generated by Adam born of Eve. Jesus is teaching He is not of this generation but is generated by His Father in heaven. Who has ever said such things?
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planten
Guest
** Benadam, thank you for a good lecture and for NOT naming any one. I was most interested in the words of Jesus who was born of a woman that there is none greater than John the baptist. Both John the baptist and Jesus son of Mary were born of the woman. Please be real. Was Jesus not born of a woman?
Then if Jesus was telling the truth, he could not be greater than John the Baptist. It is also proved by the fact that john the Baptist baptised Jesus. The writers of the gospels had to wangle a lot of things to mislead the people in each verse. In each verse they added a few words to make the things in their favor. (palatable).
This baptism of Jesus was another difficult issue. They solved it by few words of Jesus and John. The reality remains that John was superior. Jesus went to him. Baptism was to cleans a person from sins. Did Jesus also have some sins?. The christians should not take too much liberty with their beliefs.
But thanks anyway. You may hold on fast to your beliefs lest you lose your way. You should be a good christian. That is a must, a good christian. Keep trying. Thanks.**
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Benadam
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Planten; do you believe God lives now in the hearts and mind of men? The name you seek is the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit the blessed Trinity, for in all these are one, and through the Son, Jesus has revealed the Father to humanity. This is of whom you seek and the name is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Father has revealed to us in times of old, that He himself will provide the sacrifice to redeem all of humanity. Emmanuel is made present in the Person of Jesus, who did the act that only God could accomplish not man, presently through the Holy Spirit who teaches and reveals Jesus is God incarnate in the Hearts and minds of men, who come to believe “Christ Crucified” a stumbling block to those who dont believe. This is how God dwells with the human race, until Jesus returns for his Catholic church.
THrough the blessed Trinity, signs and wonders have confirmed that Jesus is God incarnate through Prophets, the Law of God, the eyewitness accounts of the Gospels, followed by the Sacraments of signs and wonders, to which God is in all and through all, in him, with him in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all Glory is given to God alone.
Peace be with you
THrough the blessed Trinity, signs and wonders have confirmed that Jesus is God incarnate through Prophets, the Law of God, the eyewitness accounts of the Gospels, followed by the Sacraments of signs and wonders, to which God is in all and through all, in him, with him in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all Glory is given to God alone.
Peace be with you
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SHW
Guest
The Catholic Church told me that Jesus is God. I believe this Church because she can trace her teachings back to Jesus Himself. Jesus instituted (built) the Catholic Church upon Peter (this is a stewardship or office because Peter is given the “keys” of the kingdom of heaven). If you want more explanation of this, I will be happy to give it.
We also know that these men and women, who were alive when Jesus was on earth, knew Him personally and they believed that Jesus was God because He said He was and His Father said He was and they saw Him die on the cross for their sins, and they were willing to die in defense of these beliefs and not retract them under persecution and martyrdom. This is a very powerful witness to Truth. People do not willingly give up their lives in order to trick persons into believing something that is not actually true. They saw Him and they believed what He said.
Pax,
SHW
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K2CDS
Guest
Planten:
To answer your question as to who told me ( us ) that Jesus is God, I present the following:
Jesus Himself said He is God (John 8:28; John 8:58)
The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus God (20:28)
All Christian theologians tell me ( us ) that Jesus IS God. We Christians believe that scripture is the inerrant infallible word of God. Although written by men it was written under the inspiration of God.
Many men down thru the ages up to atheists of today have tried to prove the Bible and its
teachings wrong, fantasy, ridiculous, etc, but all have failed. It IS God’s word and we who believe accept it without reservation.
I hope that this answers your question satifactorily.
Len
To answer your question as to who told me ( us ) that Jesus is God, I present the following:
Jesus Himself said He is God (John 8:28; John 8:58)
The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus God (20:28)
All Christian theologians tell me ( us ) that Jesus IS God. We Christians believe that scripture is the inerrant infallible word of God. Although written by men it was written under the inspiration of God.
Many men down thru the ages up to atheists of today have tried to prove the Bible and its
teachings wrong, fantasy, ridiculous, etc, but all have failed. It IS God’s word and we who believe accept it without reservation.
I hope that this answers your question satifactorily.
Len
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Benadam
Guest
what if you never heard of the bible or jesus and found a book and it was the bible… Would you believe it to be inerrant truth on account of the book ’ alone’ or would there have to be an authoritive testimony from a person to say, ‘this book teaches truth’ and even then would you be able discern that the man Jesus is God?..Many don’t and argue the bible doesn’t reveal the Trinity.
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