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Benadam
Guest
Someone of respected authority on matters of faith must have taught that Jesus is God in order for there to be any faith that He is.
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SHW
Guest
Did the Bible write itself?
By what authority do you believe that the Bible is true and that it is the inspired Word of God? A book cannot prove, by what is written inside it, that it is Truth. A book is an inanimate object.Persons can pick up a science fiction book, and not knowing that it is fiction, actually believe that Martians came to earth in the year 1000 A.D. because this is what the book stated.
The Muslims believe that the Koran is the inspired Word of God. Why don’t you?
Pax,
SHW
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SHW
Guest
I like how you explained it. It is concise and easy to understand.
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look3467
Guest
There is no need for anyone to tell you that Jesus is God, for if you read your bible and study it, you will find out for yourself via the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
We can forgive sins done against us, but only God can forgive sins done against Him.
The “sin” of separation (or death) is upon all of us as a consequence of being made in the image of God, or as like Him.
Jesus then, is God paying the price for our separation (Death) and granting us life (Eternal) instead, and granted us as a free gift.
Only God could do that and in Jesus was God doing it for us.
Jesus, therefore is the center of all the bible, for by Him is all created and all of it all under His feet.
Having said that then, the only name now under the whole of Heaven by which mankind can be saved is Jesus.
If Jesus can not be accepted as God, than it is a hard thing to understand what salvation means.
For there is no other way by which mankind can be savd, save God.
Blessings, AJ
We can forgive sins done against us, but only God can forgive sins done against Him.
The “sin” of separation (or death) is upon all of us as a consequence of being made in the image of God, or as like Him.
Jesus then, is God paying the price for our separation (Death) and granting us life (Eternal) instead, and granted us as a free gift.
Only God could do that and in Jesus was God doing it for us.
Jesus, therefore is the center of all the bible, for by Him is all created and all of it all under His feet.
Having said that then, the only name now under the whole of Heaven by which mankind can be saved is Jesus.
If Jesus can not be accepted as God, than it is a hard thing to understand what salvation means.
For there is no other way by which mankind can be savd, save God.
Blessings, AJ
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planten
Guest
** K2CDS, here is John8:28,
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me**.
**Here is John 8:58.
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”**
In the above words of bible (ch. John 8), where did Jesus say that he was God? Where is the word “God” in your above quoted verses?
** I know Thomas said “O my Lord, O my God”. I don’t know what wa smeant. That is not the way to address a God**.
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I believe you that some has taught you that Jesus is God. Some one has been teaching you these things. But who? And Why?
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**Please do not mind. Where is god’s word? You do not have any word of god with you. Your friends here tell me that Jesus did not have any bible. He did not give any bible. So that is the end of the word of god.
If any persons wrote a book called gospels from their mind,i.e. some biography of Jesus, that cannot be called the word of god. We have seen many biographies of different people. Shall we call those biographies as the words of God? No. Not at all.**
**Thanks for the effort. You have described the beliefs of the Catholics very well. But from my post you may have understood that I had some problems with your post too. Please do not mind.
I believe that it is your belief. That is all. No more.**
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Eternaly_Secure
Guest
What religion do you belong to? as you are obviously not a practising Jew as you say ‘‘Yahweh’’ and read the new testament and you are not a Christian.
If this question has already been asked, please ignore this question.
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Benadam
Guest
** K2CDS, here is John8:28,**
I sense you are here daring Catholics to convince you
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planten
Guest
**Benadam, you did not read the posts properly. Please see again…
K2CDS, here is John8:28,
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
Here is John 8:58.
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” **
In the above words of bible (ch. John 8), where did Jesus say that he was God? Where is the word “God” in your above quoted verses?
Quote:
The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus God (20:28)
I know Thomas said “O my Lord, O my God”. I don’t know what was meant. That is not the way to address a God.
Quote:
All Christian theologians tell me ( us ) that Jesus IS God. We Christians believe that scripture is the inerrant infallible word of God. Although written by men it was written under the inspiration of God
. I believe you that some has taught you that Jesus is God. Some one has been teaching you these things. But who? And Why?
That was the discussion. Can you Benadam, show where in John ch.8 there is a word “God”? Similarly, there was nothing about God in other verses. It is just the belief of the people.
K2CDS, here is John8:28,
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
Here is John 8:58.
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” **
In the above words of bible (ch. John 8), where did Jesus say that he was God? Where is the word “God” in your above quoted verses?
Quote:
The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus God (20:28)
I know Thomas said “O my Lord, O my God”. I don’t know what was meant. That is not the way to address a God.
Quote:
All Christian theologians tell me ( us ) that Jesus IS God. We Christians believe that scripture is the inerrant infallible word of God. Although written by men it was written under the inspiration of God
. I believe you that some has taught you that Jesus is God. Some one has been teaching you these things. But who? And Why?
That was the discussion. Can you Benadam, show where in John ch.8 there is a word “God”? Similarly, there was nothing about God in other verses. It is just the belief of the people.
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Eternaly_Secure
Guest
If you dont submit to the Holy Spirit, you cannot understand the true meaning of many Scripture you will be blinded to them. They dont always have an obvious meaning and that is why they are misinterpreted. There are spiritual thing’s in the Bible that unbelieving men cannot learn.
To understand the scriptures you will need to repent and believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for your personal sins and then you will recieve the Holy Spirit and he will teach you.
The Lord Jesus Christ is God the Son and he died for you, but you have to believe that or you will be eternally lost.
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K2CDS
Guest
Planten
In Exodus 3:14 when Moses asks God what His name is, God says that He is called
“I AM”, “I am who I am…that is My name forever”. Jesus, when telling the Jewish
authorities who he is, said " I am who I am". This is where Jesus is calling Himself God.
The Jews tried to stone him because they said he “blasphemed, making Himself equal to
God.”
The apostle Thomas, in John 20:28, when he sees the reurrected Jesus, calls Him “My
Lord and my God.”. You may say that he was surprised to see Him ( which may be true)
and used that expression much as we we use “Oh, my God” today. What you must
realize is that Thomas, like all Jews of that day, was devout and orthodox and would
consider an expression like that towards another human being as sheer blasphemy.
When Thomas called Jesus “My Lord and my God”, he knew exactly what he was
saying and acknowledged Jesus as God the Son and his God. Also why did the apostles
worship Jesus (Mat 28:17 and Luke 24:52) when worship belongs to God alone and
Jesus did not rebuke them?
This is sufficient proof for me that Jesus is God, because He, and the apostles, told
me so.
In Exodus 3:14 when Moses asks God what His name is, God says that He is called
“I AM”, “I am who I am…that is My name forever”. Jesus, when telling the Jewish
authorities who he is, said " I am who I am". This is where Jesus is calling Himself God.
The Jews tried to stone him because they said he “blasphemed, making Himself equal to
God.”
The apostle Thomas, in John 20:28, when he sees the reurrected Jesus, calls Him “My
Lord and my God.”. You may say that he was surprised to see Him ( which may be true)
and used that expression much as we we use “Oh, my God” today. What you must
realize is that Thomas, like all Jews of that day, was devout and orthodox and would
consider an expression like that towards another human being as sheer blasphemy.
When Thomas called Jesus “My Lord and my God”, he knew exactly what he was
saying and acknowledged Jesus as God the Son and his God. Also why did the apostles
worship Jesus (Mat 28:17 and Luke 24:52) when worship belongs to God alone and
Jesus did not rebuke them?
This is sufficient proof for me that Jesus is God, because He, and the apostles, told
me so.
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planten
Guest
**Eternally Secure, thanks for your advice. You mean to say that I have to believe and I do not have to ask anything.
But I am a believer in God and all his attributes. I am a believer in the Holy Spirit too. I am a believer in all the angels and all the books of God. I am a believer in the goodness of Jesus and Mary and all the prophets/ saints of God.
I do not believe that Jesus or any one else is god. I do not believe that God had any son (unless in the metaphoric sense). I cannot believe that the death of one man cure the ills of all the people of the world who lived before him and never knew him.
I believe in Noah and Abraham and Issac and Jacob and Joseph and Moses and all the prophets who came after Moses amongst the Jews.
Now can you tell me where I go from here?
I do not blame you for what you have advised.**
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planten
Guest
**Eternally Secure, please understand that the Catholics here were writing that Muhammad was not visited by an angel. He was visited by the devil. I told them that Muhammad said he was visited by the angel and that he was receiving messages from the God Almighty care of an angel (Gabriel).
The Catholics said that it was not true.
That is why I asked them “Who told you that Jesus was God.?” Afterall some one must have told them. Then we will have to consider the credibility of that person who told the Catholics that Jesus was God.
Different people are giving different answers. Some are absolutely quiet, no response. I will keep on asking the question “Who told any one that Jesus was God?” Of course it could not be Jesus himself. We won’t believe him because nobody believed in what Muhammad said. So there is some deadlock. Can you see the problem that has been caused? WE do not have to believe any one.**
The Catholics said that it was not true.
That is why I asked them “Who told you that Jesus was God.?” Afterall some one must have told them. Then we will have to consider the credibility of that person who told the Catholics that Jesus was God.
Different people are giving different answers. Some are absolutely quiet, no response. I will keep on asking the question “Who told any one that Jesus was God?” Of course it could not be Jesus himself. We won’t believe him because nobody believed in what Muhammad said. So there is some deadlock. Can you see the problem that has been caused? WE do not have to believe any one.**
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Eternaly_Secure
Guest
I know you think you believe in God. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
The Bible says that Jesus Christ is God’s Son and that he is the only way to God, but it takes faith and a person needs to know they are lost or they will not repent.
You need to believe that the Bible is God’s word for it to do you any good. If you reject Christ you reject God, it’s your choice.
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Eternaly_Secure
Guest
If Muhammad was visited by the angel Gabriel, he would have been told that Jesus Christ is God and that he needed to trust in him.
So if indeed he was visited by Gabriel, he rejected Christ at that moment.
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planten
Guest
**Eternaly Secure, Again Thanks. You are telling that bible is word of God. The Catholics on this forum had denied that jesus had any bible or that he gave any bible. That bible was passed own by God to any one.
I as a Muslim do believe that Jesus was taught the Torah and the Bible and he passed on the teachings (bible) to his followers. I have full unshaken beleif in that, that the bible is from God.
But as I see here, the Catholics are telling that Jesus did not give any bible. (Of course he did not give bible in any book form or as a written document). But he was the master, the teacher of what became bible… We Muslims believe that Moses was given the book and so was Jesus. Book means knowledge. But Catholics deny it. They say that some men later after Jesus went away, sat down and wrote down the bible.
That would be the man made book and the christians believe that all men are sinful (sinners). So how can the sinners be inspired to do a good work? They are not holy. It becomes complicated.
I as a Muslim do not believe that any one is a born sinner. I have no problem with such things. How to trust the bible in which there is no direct claim (sentence) that Jesus is god. It is all implied or derived meanings which cannot be accepted because the nature of the claim is very serious. It has tentacles leading into paganism.**
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Eternaly_Secure
Guest
The Bible was written by Holy men of God under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The Lord says in his Word: Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
The Holy Spirit enables the believer to live a Holy life.
The Lord said that he and the Father are one.
He also said: Before Abraham was, I am. What do you think he meant by those statements? Do you believe that Jesus always was or that when Mary bore him, that was his beggining?
The Lord Jesus Christ requires faith from us, that is his way and a sinner cant grasp that, but he God says: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
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Benadam
Guest
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planten
Guest
** It is surprising that the angel told Muhammad all about Jesus and his mother (Mary) and about his grand mother too. Angel told more to Muhammad about Jesus than it is described in the gospels. But angel failed to tell Muhammad that Jesus was son of God. Impossible !
Instead of that, the angel told Muhammad that Jesus was not a son of God. What a bad thing ! You suppose that was possible when the angels had been coming before Jesus too and God had been showing his messages through hundreds of prophets before Jesus. Never did God give the message that he had an original eternal son. That he would send his son in the world in the form of flesh.
The Jews, the predecessors and seniors of the christians were never informed about such things as son of God.
It seems that you are the odd one out and God truely informed Muhammad about the status of Jesus. And that, like the message to Jews, There could be no son or wife or father of God and no partner of God too. That was the message since the beginning of the world. How come the message suddenly changed in the middle? You have to think over. You do not know if Jesus is really the son of God, and in what sense is he the son of God.
Jesus always used to talk in parables. (see the bible).
According to the church teachings, Jesus who is said to be the son of God, eventually ends up as the only and real God. How is that? He is said to be everything, even the creator of everything, the creator of his mother too and the creator of his father Joseph the carpentar.
**
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K2CDS
Guest
Planten ;
May I ask you as a Muslim that you believe that Muhammad is God’s last prophet and
that he wrote the Qu’uran as the angel Gabriel told him? If you do, why" Who told you?
What is his name?
I have read through the Qu’uran and find nothing that mentions Muhammad.
May I ask you as a Muslim that you believe that Muhammad is God’s last prophet and
that he wrote the Qu’uran as the angel Gabriel told him? If you do, why" Who told you?
What is his name?
I have read through the Qu’uran and find nothing that mentions Muhammad.
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look3467
Guest
Let me ask everybody this question, if everybody’s understanding of what their God is, can it be summed up in one word?
If that one word is the catalyst which transcends all religious and non religious individuals, enables us to unite, as one in it, what difference than does it make by name is the giver of it?
“I am who I am” is open to us to express the “I am” in us by what ever way the I am chooses.
What is important here is, that if we exercise what that word is, then we shall know from where’s it comes and how it effects our relationships with one another.
Blessings, AJ
If that one word is the catalyst which transcends all religious and non religious individuals, enables us to unite, as one in it, what difference than does it make by name is the giver of it?
“I am who I am” is open to us to express the “I am” in us by what ever way the I am chooses.
What is important here is, that if we exercise what that word is, then we shall know from where’s it comes and how it effects our relationships with one another.
Blessings, AJ
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