"Jesus IS God!"?

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It is easy to simply regard the translation of the Greek Logos as “word” as it is usually translated in the Bible. But do not limit yourself to thinking of Logos as the literal meaning of the English word “word.” In Greek, the original language of the Gospel According to John, Logos means much more than literally, the “word.” The distinct meanings of the Greek word Logos can extend to, and can be translated into wisdom, thought, speech, proportion, or reason. When we limit the Logos to just “word”, we do an injustice to the intent of the author of the Gospel of John when he described Christ as the Logos.
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Firstly, which dialect of greek are you referring to. Secondly, it is written that Jesus is the Word and all things came into existance through the Word and by the Word though the uction of the Holy Spirit.

John 1
In the beginning was the Word.
The bible tells us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. In the beginning God begat his Son the Word, even before he created the heavens and the earth. And by the Son the Word of God, and through the Son the Word of God, God spoke all things into existence through the ministry of his Holy Spirit. God begat his Son who is the expressed image of the Father, a life unto himself. John 5:25

And the Word was with God. God begat his Son the Word, and God was a Father unto the Son and Jesus was a Son unto the Father.

And the Word was God. God the Father gave his Son his Holy Spirit without measure. The Son did only the will of his Father. Thus, making him God, for it is written, no man cometh unto the Father, but through the Son. In Hebrews 1, the Father himself refers to the Son as God so who do we do any less.
 
heiscominginthe said:
Firstly, which dialect of greek are you referring to. Secondly, it is written that Jesus is the Word and all things came into existance through the Word and by the Word though the uction of the Holy Spirit.

John 1
In the beginning was the Word.
The bible tells us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. In the beginning God begat his Son the Word, even before he created the heavens and the earth. And by the Son the Word of God, and through the Son the Word of God, God spoke all things into existence through the ministry of his Holy Spirit. God begat his Son who is the expressed image of the Father, a life unto himself. John 5:25

And the Word was with God. God begat his Son the Word, and God was a Father unto the Son and Jesus was a Son unto the Father.

And the Word was God. God the Father gave his Son his Holy Spirit without measure. The Son did only the will of his Father. Thus, making him God, for it is written, no man cometh unto the Father, but through the Son. In Hebrews 1, the Father himself refers to the Son as God so who do we do any less.
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My point is that the Bible wasn’t written in English. The English language wasn’t even in extant when the Gospels were written. The language of the New Testament was Greek, specifically Koine Greek. When you say that “the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. In the beginning God begat his Son the Word, even before he created the heavens and the earth,” you are thinking of the English “word” as in a sound representing an idea, or a term. When material contained in the New Testament was originally written in the language of Koine Greek, the Koine Greek word for “word” is Logos. Logos can be translated as the “word” as use in English, but it can also mean other things, more than simply “word”. What I’m trying to say is that the meaning of the Greek Logos is more complex than the English word “word.” This is one of the benefits of reading the Bible in the original dialect, you are not limited by the ideas of the translators, who themselves are limited by the language into which they are translating the original Greek.

Peace
 
By the way, I wish you all a joyous and Blessed Easter.
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I don’t like using the word easter to represent our Lord’s day of resurrection. I believe it is better say happy resurrection day.
 
heiscominginthe said:
I don’t like using the word easter to represent our Lord’s day of resurrection. I believe it is better say happy resurrection day.
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If you are going to not say Easter because of the pagan origins of the word, then you better not say any day ogf the week either, and months cab get tricky too
 
My point is that the Bible wasn’t written in English.
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Saying that God could not get his Word perfectly into English is like saying it is impossilbe for God to use men to get his Word written and have it perfect.

One of the most sucessful lies the devil has used to deceive mankind is that it is impossible for God to get his Word written by using sinful men.
 
heiscominginthe said:
Saying that God could not get his Word perfectly into English is like saying it is impossilbe for God to use men to get his Word written and have it perfect.

One of the most sucessful lies the devil has used to deceive mankind is that it is impossible for God to get his Word written by using sinful men.
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You are missing my point. I don’t think you understand. LOGOS MEANS MORE THAN “WORD.”
 
And CW Betts is correct. Tuesday is named for the Saxon pagan god Tewes, similar to the Roman Mars. Wednesday is named for the Saxon god Woden, or Odin. Thursday is for Thor, and Friday is for Fridda (Friddas Dag), all Saxon/Germanic pagan gods. Saturday is named for Saturn. This is because the English language we speak today evolved from the language that the Saxons spoke. The names of the days of the week kept their Saxon monikers as the language evolved into what we speak today. That is why the Quakers called Sunday “First day”, and Monday “Second day”…
 
It seems to me that defining words to meet our standards is the cause of arguments, and divisions.

When the truth is being masked by it.

To argue that Jesus was not God saving the world, then God must have left it all to Jesus, under His own power and might without the help of God.

Question? Who but God could meet the perfection that was required by God of mankind, save God Himself?

Blessing, AJ
 
look3467 said:
Question? Who but God could meet the perfection that was required by God of mankind, save God Himself?

Blessing, AJ
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You have no argument from me there. A few posts back, heiscominginthe mentioned something like: “Does a word exist before it is spoken?” I may have taken a too round-about way of trying to explain that Jesus is much more than just the word of God. If we limit Jesus to just a word, we might be tempted into thinking that there was a time when Jesus was not, i.e. before God spoke that word. And since Jesus is God, Who is outside of time, that is impossible.

Peace
 
piltdown_man said:
You have no argument from me there. A few posts back, heiscominginthe mentioned something like: “Does a word exist before it is spoken?” I may have taken a too round-about way of trying to explain that Jesus is much more than just the word of God. If we limit Jesus to just a word, we might be tempted into thinking that there was a time when Jesus was not, i.e. before God spoke that word. And since Jesus is God, Who is outside of time, that is impossible.

Peace
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You are correct in what you said.
The order is God the Father, unknown to mankind except for the Son who has revealed the true nature of the Father, for He reflected all that the Father is in human form.

Then there is the Holy Spirit which is Jesus as we know Him and the Father as Jesus has revealed Him to us.

All 3 are God, but in different administrations.

Therefore, God always was, whether in human form, Jesus, or in a known Spirit, Holy Spirit.

To have understanding of the three, one must understand their administrations in the course of human history.

Blessings, AJ
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467
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Question? Who but God could meet the perfection that was required by God of mankind, save God Himself?
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Blessing, AJ
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You have no argument from me there. A few posts back, heiscominginthe mentioned something like: “Does a word exist before it is spoken?” I may have taken a too round-about way of trying to explain that Jesus is much more than just the word of God. If we limit Jesus to just a word, we might be tempted into thinking that there was a time when Jesus was not, i.e. before God spoke that word. And since Jesus is God, Who is outside of time, that is impossible.
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It is written that Jesus is the Word of God. It is also written that he is the only begotten Son of God. Begotten means born of the same, Scripture tells us that God gave Jesus a life unto himself. This goes perfectly when it is conceived that the Son was begotten of the Father.

God is not a god of confusion. To say that he sent his Son into the World when it was really himself promotes confusion and that is contrary to the Word of God.

Can God die? To say he died is contrary to the Word of God.

When Jesus was on the cross, our heavenly Father removed his Holy Spirit from Jesus before he became our sin offering. That is why Jesus said, Father, why hast thou forsaken me.

As I said before, it is not robbery to say Jesus was equal to God, is God since he had the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Yet, it is the fullness of the Godhead that exists in the Son that makes it possible to call him God.
 
heiscominginthe said:
It is written that Jesus is the Word of God. It is also written that he is the only begotten Son of God. Begotten means born of the same, Scripture tells us that God gave Jesus a life unto himself. This goes perfectly when it is conceived that the Son was begotten of the Father.
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**Quite confusing policy statement. The meaning of begotten is “born of the same”. So Jesus is born of the same as was the father god born?? Is that what you mean please??.

Was father god born of a woman??

Then there is another problem. The one who is begotten can also beget too. Please tell me did Jesus beget any one?? I hope not.**
God is not a god of confusion. To say that he sent his Son into the World when it was really himself promotes confusion and that is contrary to the Word of God
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.

** The sentence is confusing.**
Can God die? To say he died is contrary to the Word of God.
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Thanks for agreeing that God cannot die.
When Jesus was on the cross, our heavenly Father removed his Holy Spirit from Jesus before he became our sin offering. That is why Jesus said, Father, why hast thou forsaken me.
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**That is interesting. The holy spirit left Jesus when he was on the cross. So Jesus was not God when he was on the cross. It was a good shifting about from God to no God. Is it your sceme or it was the Father god doing all that?. We Muslims do not believe that the holy spirit ever left Jesus.

Then Jesus may have died as a man and not as a God?? But when laid in the tomb, the holy spirit must have come back to him?? And the human soul must have also come back because he was dead in the tomb.

We have to believe that when Jesus was on the cross then only holy spirit did not leave him but the other spirit (or the soul) also left him. That is why he died. When a person dies, his soul departs. So we should believe that when Jesus was in the tomb, both the spirit and the soul must have come back to him without his choice.

Please keep trying. thanks.**
As I said before, it is not robbery to say Jesus was equal to God, is God since he had the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Yet, it is the fullness of the Godhead that exists in the Son that makes it possible to call him God.
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** We Muslims do not say Jesus was a robber or he robbed anything from God. But he said that there was one greater than him who had sent him. Surely the One who sends must be greater than the one who is sent. And nobody can send himself.

Please tell if what you have written is the proper church teaching or you have designed all that in your above post? WE do not want to be misled by just one man. It is alright for the church to mislead us. But we do not want to be misled by you. Thanks.**
 
Simply put, Jesus was either:
  1. The Son of God and the Savior of mankind.
  2. A liar.
Matthew 16:18-20, Jesus commends Simon Peter for calling him the Son of God.
John 14:6, Jesus says that He is the only way to the Father.
John 15:6, Jesus says whoever does not abide in Him will be thrown away.

Accept these, and you must accept that Jesus is the Messiah. If you say he was not the Messiah, then you can neither call him a great man or prophet of God. Make your choice.
 
heiscominginthe said:
Begotten means born of the same
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The word begotten is the adjective form of “beget”, which means generated from, or produced as an effect by; sired.

The key word that you left out is eternal. Yes, Jesus is begotten, but it is important that you remember that He is eternally begotten. This means that it is a timeless action, one that is outside of the temporal limits of our earthly, material life. If you accept that Jesus is eternally begotten, you must accept that He always Is, and always was, and always will be. Sounds a lot like God to me.

I must also add, that this is summed up very nicely in the Nicene Creed. I’m sure that someone has mentioned that earlier though.
“We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father.”
 
I know that you are looking for some irrefutable proof of Jesus as God, Planten. I think that this forum cited many New Testament passages that state without a doubt that Jesus is God. Some other passages, if misinterpreted and/or taken out of context, may seem to say otherwise.

What it comes down to is faith, it always does. There is very good evidence that the Gospels are factual. And if you believe that the Gospels state factual events, then logically, you must infer that Jesus is God. If you don’t trust the New Testament, and since you are a Muslim I suspect you don’t, then I don’t know what to tell you except this:

Members of the Catholic faith do not treat the Bible as the ultimate or highest authoritative source of information about Christology. I know this may be hard to grasp because I understand the weight of authority that the Quran has to Muslims. However, Catholics have tradition; decrees of Popes, and councils stretching back to Jesus and the Apostles which are treated as a co-equal sources and rule of faith with the Bible. This tradition, or passed down knowledge from the beginning of the Church, tell us without a doubt that Jesus is God. But in the end, as I said before, it is a matter of faith, and trust.

Peace
 
Then Jesus may have died as a man and not as a God?? But when laid in the tomb, the holy spirit must have come back to him?? And the human soul must have also come back because he was dead in the tomb.
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Again we come back to what it is that makes Jesus God. It is the Holy Spirit given him without measure that makes it not robbery to call him God.

It is written that God is the God of the living, not the dead. When Jesus died, God had removed his Holy Spirit from him because Jesus had to die, and his soul/spirit went into hell and preached to the righteous dead being held captive by the devil.

When Jesus was resurrected, the Holy Spirit of God is again in the Son, so he could be resurrected.

All the righteous dead who’s souls had been held baptive by satan were set free and went into heaven with Jesus.

Do not mistake the flesh as the soul. The flesh house the soul. Once the soul leaves the flesh, the flesh returns to dust.
 
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