In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Christians consider Jesus (pbuh) to be God on the basis of:
Jesus’ pre-existence as stated in John 8:58;
Jesus said unto them, ‘Verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.’”
The idea of pre-existence is not unique to Jesus even in the Bible. Pre-existence was mentioned in relation to Solomon (Proverbs 8:23-27), to Job (Job 38:4 and 21) and to Jeremiah (Jeremiah 1:4-5).
The Qur’an states in Surah Al-A’raaf (7):172 “When your Lord gathered all of Adam’s descendants (before creation) and made them bear witness for themselves…”
We thereby know that ALL men were created in spirit before the creation of the physical world. Jesus (pbuh) was not unique in this pre-existence and cannot claim divinity because of it.
islam-australia.iinet.net.au/Consider%20Islam/consider_islam_august2004.htm
Dear Muslim Women
The site got it wrong. Let me explain:
We thereby know that ALL men were created in spirit before the creation of the physical world.
Not a Christian belief. But what about the Biblical verses quoted? None talks about us preexisting before creation.
The idea of pre-existence is not unique to Jesus even in the Bible.
Wrong, the preexistence shown in this verse (John 8:58, existence before Abraham) is unique to Jesus.
Pre-existence was mentioned in relation… to Job (Job 38:4 and 21).
Job 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
2 “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up your loins like a man, I will question you, and you shall declare to me.
**4 Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.” **
God asks “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.” This does not show any preexistence. The verse actually shows the lack of existence during that time.
Job 38
16 "Have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?
18 Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this.
19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light, and where is the place of darkness,
20 that you may take it to its territory and that you may discern the paths to its home?
**21 You know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great!” **
"for you were
born then and the number of your days is great.” God is talking of out lack of knowledge about things such as the “expanse of earth” etc in spite of the fact that we exist during all of it.
A side note, the chapter is God poetically reminding us that he exists everywhere and he knows everything and we are very limited in the time of our existence and in knowledge.
None of these verses shows preexistence.
Pre-existence was mentioned in relation… to Jeremiah (Jeremiah 1:4-5).
Jeremiah
4 Now the word of the LORD came to me saying,
**5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” **
This doesn’t show existed before creation or to the extent of Jesus. We exist before we are placed in the womb. This is why abortion is considered a sin because we begin at conception. God creates us (at least the soul) before we are formed in the womb, thus killing a child however early in the pregnancy is murder because the child has life and God knew him/her before the child was conceived. This doesn’t talk about preexistence before creation or years before some ancestor.
Pre-existence was mentioned in relation… to Solomon (Proverbs 8:23-27).
I wonder if the place you have quoted from reads verses in the context. Proverb 8:23-27, talks about preexistence and existence during the time creation
but the verse is
not talking about Solomon,
the verse is referring to Wisdom
Proverb 8:1-4,23-27
1 **Does not wisdom call, does not understanding raise her voice? **
2 On the heights beside the way, in the paths she takes her stand;
3 beside the gates in front of the town, at the entrance of the portals
she cries aloud:
4 "To you, O men, I call, and my cry is to the sons of men.
23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,"
Wisdom is saying the above quote, not Solomon.
We thereby know that ALL men were created in spirit before the creation of the physical world.
No Biblical verse implies that we exist during the creation. The only person who exist before creation is Jesus, the Word.
So, it doesn’t matter to you to find TRUTH, you want acceptance for what you already believe.