Jesus' status in Islam and Judaism

[inJESUS]

Right, my mistake, let me qualify my sentence. While Abraham was on the earth, he did not know Jesus and yet he led a life of righteousness that brought him to heaven. He did not have the Gospel like we have. This is a matter of wordplay, you knew what I meant.

so why need Jesus? let us follow Abraham and pretend that Jesus never existed …Abraham is more important to follow than the Word in flesh. All NT authors just taught that you dont need Jesus but we must follow Abraham as our role model because Jesus brought no new covenant neither did He say He is the Way, life and Truth but said no one goes to the Father except through Abraham…actually Abraham is the way and truth…ok, we just created a new religion mixing lies with falsehood…surely my words sent to this forum members are from God since hey, i believe in Abraham too .

 

[Angelos]

so why need Jesus? let us follow Abraham and pretend that Jesus never existed …Abraham is more important to follow than the Word in flesh. All NT authors just taught that you dont need Jesus but we must follow Abraham as our role model because Jesus brought no new covenant neither did He say He is the Way, life and Truth but said no one goes to the Father except through Abraham…actually Abraham is the way and truth…ok, we just created a new religion mixing lies with falsehood…surely my words sent to this forum members are from God since hey, i believe in Abraham too .

Very nice post, but is most likely to fall on deaf ears. Ed Rand is not pleased with our Bible and is uncannily eager to authorise a false religion with the help of a promise that exists neither in the Bible nor in the Koran!

 

[morning_star777]

actually ed,muhammed says some good words but those words he took from bible.but many words he forged.so its very influential if any1 will preach a true coated lie.by the way read the rigveda,hindu scripture.there are lots of nice words.so did god send vedas to us what is full of 33gods?so if the authors of veda claimed that OT it also the word of bhagwan(God)then would you belive the hymns of 33 gods is the true word of god the father?

 

[dolphinlove]

Very nice post, but is most likely to fall on deaf ears. Ed Rand is not pleased with our Bible and is uncannily eager to authorise a false religion with the help of a promise that exists neither in the Bible nor in the Koran!

Thats all we need, another ‘new’ religion to add to the mix…
:bigyikes:

 

[inJESUS]

That’s what I’ve been saying!!! Oh boy, I can’t take this right now… It’s 3 am. you are making me crazy.

no one is disputing that the covenant was with Isaac…we are disputing your mixing of “great nation” with a religion…God’s promise of a new religion by using “great nation”, if indeed it was about a religion, then you will have to call it Christianity, which is the Messianic covenant.Since the Messianic covenant is to be followed by all till the end, Jews, and non-Jews, then Ishamels’ “great nation” must follow Jesus’ eternal covenant, and will not be given a covenant/religion/book/prophet that contradict the Messianic one. So in order for your personal interpretation to be true, we must falsify what the Bible says…This is the point we have been trying to explain to you.

 

[swariffin]

God made the general promise to Abraham: “I will bless all nations through you.” God made his covenant with Isaac. God also made a promise to Isaac that was exactly the same as the one to Ishmael.

None of you have answered my questions!!! Is the promise of a great nation made to Isaac foretelling Christianity? As Christians, I believe we must say yes. The promise is the same to Ismael; therefore, the fulfillment of this promise must be a faith comparable to Christianity. This is logic.

Dear Ed,

God promised that Abraham will have the decendent as much as the stars in the sky of the sands of the beach. Nothing to do about a specific religion, let alone modern countries like what the world has today. But, you are correct, that all the decendant of Abraham, as well as all human being must believe in God.

 

[morning_star777]

oh ed,hindus claim that they believe in 1 true god&he is param bramhn.and all gods like vishnu(krisna),shvia.indra&agni(chief god of veda,later became demigod in purana).agni is fire&purana is epic.but leave this epics.vedas taught very nice things.just 1 deference that they didn’t know about our prophets but muhamed knew.so its very easy for muhamed claiming himself the chief prophet of all prophet.anyway veda didn’t teach violence like quran

 

[Ed_Rand]

actually Angelos is correct…not all promises are the same…if God promises and eternal covenant through Isaac to be followed even by Ishmaels’ descendant, how can God give Ishmaels’ descendant a covenant that opposes the one given through Isaac, the Messianic covenant?

He gave the covenant to Israel, Ishmael did not share in that inheritance and his descendants were not to follow it. Okay, this is absolutely the last time I’m going to explain this to you and Angelo:

1)God promises he will bless all nations through him
2)God promises he will make Ishmael into a great nation
3)God promises he will make Isaac into a great nation
4)God says he will establish the covenant with Isaac only.

You sometimes have great insights and beautiful words…but sometimes you amaze me with your belittling of who Jesus is, what He did, His death and resurrection, and all of His covenant, when you claim that God calls Jesus’ crucifixion and resurection a delusion, when yiu claim that it is God who gave Muhammad a covenant that contradicts the eternal Messianic one to be followed by all, and you top it all by saying you do not even have to believe in Jesus to be saved…

Muslims would say that you are belittling God by claiming He was a craping, farting, bleeding, human. It’s a matter of perspective. Both sides say the other is insulting their God and neither are right. Both views of God are holy and acceptable to Him.

why aren’t you a Jew if what Jesus did, all His life and covenant is not that important or why aren’t you a Muslim since you believe that the one addressing you in the Quran as deluded and cursed for believing in Jesus’ death and lordship is actually God?

Because I am a Christian, with a very wide open mind in comparison to most others apparently… others that believe God would let 1.5 billion of His sons and daughters be led to Hell by Satan. Don’t you think Satan’s greatest lies are going to be a little more of an international phenomenon than Islam is? i.e. Satan’s greatest lies are going to be much more appealing to an international audience. In your view of the world, the fact that I am born in the Middle East to loving, Muslim parents would make life quite unfair for me, wouldn’t it? Since this would mean that I am born into a household and landscape dominated by Satan. But if I am born in the US? I am far from the reach of Satan’s lies because of circumstances that I am born into. Is God that unfair?
I know that my views seem very unorthodox, but your views have not made sense to me for quite some time.

 

[dolphinlove]

off topic for a moment, sorry folks
morningstar, have you converted to Christianity yet?
Sorry, back to the thread peeps

 

[morning_star777]

oh ed,hindus claim that they believe in 1 true god&he is param bramhn.and all gods like vishnu(krisna),shvia.indra&agni(chief god of veda,later became demigod in purana)

but all gods are the appearance of 1 true God param brahmn.that not meant that they believe in our god and their book is also from god.but i wanted to say if they knew our prophets like muhamed knew&then they also claimed like him,then?

 

[swariffin]

He is saying basically the same thing that Paul teaches in Romans chapter 4. Abraham came before the law and before Christ. If we live by faith as he did, it does not matter if we follow Christianity or Islam.

Funny that Satan would teach so many of the same things as God. And warn his audience constantly about himself. He sure is crafty!!!

Dear Ed,

No way Ed. You misunderstood Paul again. Paul said in Roman chapter 4, against the believe that following the law (which is not necessarily means the Thorah) will save. You told me yourself about this in your previous post. As i mentioned, do you think all the muslim scholars will say the same thing you do? They don’t even believe in Paul.

Off course Satan will make his teaching the same things as God, but not quite. It is only the beginning. You will see in the ending things like God is Great, God is this… God is that… And finally??? Lo and Behold. Kill the Unbeliever, Slay your enemy, Make the unbeliever as Second Citizen under your kingdom.

I don’t have a Quran with me. Now you tell me. Where do the Jihadist verses in the Quran. At the beginning??

 

[morning_star777]

off topic for a moment, sorry folks
morningstar, have you converted to Christianity yet?
Sorry, back to the thread peeps

dear dolphine!off topic?i gave some references that if any1 will claim that his book is the word of god then its not the word of god.&i am a christian.any doubt?i know you very wel.i never thought that u can ask me that did i become a christian or not(if i am wrong then correct me)

 

[dolphinlove]

dear dolphine!off topic?i gave some references that if any1 will claim that his book is the word of god then its not the word of god.&i am a christian.any doubt?i know you very wel.i never thought that u can ask me that did i become a christian or not(if i am wrong then correct me)

oh no, please, you have mistaken what im asking…
I thought you were going through the process of converting the last time we spoke, or have i mistaken you for someone else?
Im sorry if i have offended you, but i have not been on here for a while and im trying to get up to date with that is going on.
Im sorry
God bless and i know Jesus loves you.

 

[inJESUS]

dear dolphine!off topic?i gave some references that if any1 will claim that his book is the word of god then its not the word of god.&i am a christian.any doubt?i know you very wel.i never thought that u can ask me that did i become a christian or not(if i am wrong then correct me)

she was saying her question is off topic and asking if you already legally converted .

 

[morning_star777]

morningstar, have you converted to Christianity yet?

but my dear friend is you just simply asked me then i can answer you after leaving bangladesh(2or3year later)i will openly convert.i mentally became christian u know1 apologist ensured me that its called baptism by desire,&if i will die before taking sacrament then i will go to heaven.but when i will find an option then i have to baptize.thanks

 

[dolphinlove]

but my dear friend is you just simply asked me then i can answer you after leaving bangladesh(2or3year later)i will openly convert.i mentally became christian u know1 apologist ensured me that its called baptism by desire,&if i will die before taking sacrament then i will go to heaven.but when i will find an option then i have to baptize.thanks

Well, im sure Jesus will open the door for you that will allow you to convert freely. May that day come soon for you.
God bless

 

[morning_star777]

oh my dear friend,i am a fool.sorry for my mistake.i apologize.and for my life risk i can’t baptize in banglades.so i will do it after leaving bangladesh.again sorry for my mistake and i am begging ur pardon.pls reply and forgive me

 

[morning_star777]

oh no, please, you have mistaken what im asking…
I thought you were going through the process of converting the last time we spoke, or have i mistaken you for someone else?
Im sorry if i have offended you, but i have not been on here for a while and im trying to get up to date with that is going on.
Im sorry
God bless and i know Jesus loves you.

no friend i am sorry&feeling shy for my mistake

 

[dolphinlove]

oh my dear friend,i am a fool.sorry for my mistake.i apologize.and for my life risk i can’t baptize in banglades.so i will do it after leaving bangladesh.again sorry for my mistake and i am begging ur pardon.pls reply and forgive me

Oh of course your forgiven! It was just a silly misunderstanding, thats all. Was nothing to even worry about!

 

[ralphinal]

I’d like to get into it, but if you read this whole thread, I think your question will be answered. See Meedo’s post on page 1 of this thread.

Nope. His post does not tell me what a messiah is in Islam. It does tell me some things that are vastly different than Christian teaching about Jesus’s second coming.

Islam says he will kill the anti-Christ. We say he kills no one.

Islam says he will marry. We say he is maried to the Church and will never and has never taken a human bride.

Islam says he will die. He has died and risen and will never die again.

Islam talks about him destroying the cross and the pig and all that. We say none of that.

Again, the message is different. The role of Christ is grealy different.

I want to note that i do not hold Islam to be from the devil. I, like the Catholic CHurch, hold that they intend to worriship the same God but have a flawed understanding of Him.