Jesus use of Hyperbole

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šŸ¤“:whistle:
i don’t know where Jesus is supposed to have advocated socialism but it is clear that he was anti-capitalism which has but one law: if it makes money it is good. Jesus is quoted exactly at least three times saying : ā€œit is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.ā€ In other words rich people all go to hell!
Sorry: Cultural, historic misunderstandings because the Bible was mostly written in the parables, culture of the Time (they didn’t even write in English, nor with modern words ;)) Please get the Most definitive Bible, The history of every Book of the Bible explained, as are More Verrses than any other: Referenced Culturally: [SIGN]US Conference of Catholic Bishops: * New American Bible *[/SIGN](9.00 Paperback, available Everywhere.) :bible1:
The Church has Never said Anyone has gone to hell; Only God, not bible verses decide; we Humans can’t. ā€œThe Eye of The Needleā€ was One Narrow gate, the widest into Jerusem, that even the Wealthiest had to unload some of the Bags if their cargo Carriers: Pack Mules. The Richest and most tallented have a greater obligation to help others; and most Catholics Do.
 
Most Good people, many atheists also, Help Others: It is The Proof of being Christian also: there is a verse in Romans: ā€œNot by Faith, but by Works are ye savedā€ (The opposite of what br Martin Luther Changed (documented) a Verse to: Faith, not works. Lutheran World Leaders agreed in Conference With Catholic Cardinals, as the Catholic Church teaches universally: Saved by Faith And Works, both required) :bible1: Correction of my Post Above: ā€œThe Eye of The Needleā€ was the popular Nickname Then of the Narrowest, yet most time saving way to get Into Walled Jerusalem; Even the wealthy stopped to Unload the pack-animals enough to squeeze through, instead waste time for More Distant wider Gate. Even a Mule had to be narrow enough to get through "The Eye"gate: Our expert Bible Study: The Patriscians: Legion of Mary; A Priest there to correcxt any misunderstandings, errors. (Anyone welcome to Legion of Mary PATRISCIANS MONTHLY Only; and Catholic Biblde Studies; Our Parish has 3, by Converts from Bible-Only type Protestant brothers)
 
šŸ¤“:whistle:

Sorry: Cultural, historic misunderstandings because the Bible was mostly written in the parables, culture of the Time (they didn’t even write in English, nor with modern words ;)) Please get the Most definitive Bible, The history of every Book of the Bible explained, as are More Verrses than any other: Referenced Culturally: [SIGN]US Conference of Catholic Bishops: * New American Bible *[/SIGN](9.00 Paperback, available Everywhere.) :bible1:
The Church has Never said Anyone has gone to hell; Only God, not bible verses decide; we Humans can’t. ā€œThe Eye of The Needleā€ was One Narrow gate, the widest into Jerusem, that even the Wealthiest had to unload some of the Bags if their cargo Carriers: Pack Mules. The Richest and most tallented have a greater obligation to help others; and most Catholics Do.
…hate to disagree with you… I doubt that that is the case (cultural/historical ignorance); these ā€œscholarsā€ and ā€œtheologeansā€ have done research (perhaps some better than others) but they are bent on offering the world something new… something man has never dared to think/put into words before (you know, that hollowood hype) and they get so caught up in their quest for ā€œthe-bestest-numero-Ćŗnico-sagemaximus-got-the-Holy Ghost-in-my-pocketā€ genius that they go past heresy tofull blown anti-Christ without batting an eye-lash… the discovery/history/science, not sure how many others, continue to produce programs in such calliber… feigning to seek the Truth, they simply create a platform for Bible/Jesus/Yahweh God loathing… yes, they tend to use the Bible’s text… but the spins they put them through cannot be bested by the best weaver birds or the most intricate of spider webs… in the end the truth really comes out: ā€˜the real miracle is not that Jesus feed the thousands but that the Jews decided to share whatever they had…’ or the one cited on this thread ā€˜Jesus used hyperboles… so don’t believe what you read believe what I say (familiar, no).’

Here’s the jest of the parable of the talents: a wealthy man travels abroad and leaves three of his servants the task of administering his wealth; he gave different portions to them: 10, 5, and 1… yeah Jesus uses extravagant exaggerations… cause, you know, people couldn’t count past 3 back then!

…then there are the ā€˜Jesus didn’t say that cause ā€œxā€ā€™ or ā€˜not the original text so God did not say ā€œxyzā€!’

Maran atha!

Angel
 
  • promethius, do you even know what ā€˜socialism’ is? Don’t cloistered Nuns, Brothers, Monks live in shared self-supporting housing, not For Profit? Ditto very many examples. Didn’t Our Lord tell the Apostles to Leave Friends, Family, And Earthly Goods and Follow Him? ā€œSocialismā€, which is everywhere in the world, and Most Efficient economically, has been Falselly Pictured as Evil Personified. Look up what Socialism Is, please
I’ve taken more than enough classes in economics to know what socialism is. Having a priestly or monastic class as part of a society is FAR different than advocating socialism for everyone. In fact, the scriptures even indicate that we are NOT all to be like preists, but rather as a whole body of the Church.

Second, socialism is not the most economically efficient. I say this for two reasons: socialism has never been demonstrated to be economically efficient in any nation of any size, racial construction, etc. Second, every good economist will tell you that socialism stifles market competition and therefore creativity, thus creating stagnant economies and markets. We have only to look at the fact that a communist nation has YET to produce a decent car to realize that socialism has never encouraged economic growth.
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Please explain try to explain how/why ā€œSocialism at it’s very best is an affront against Godā€ Per Se
Socialism denies the value of the individual as a uniquely created, loved, and valuable person. The individual does not go as society goes, society goes as the individual does.

Second, the state has no soul. A government’s giving does not earn the government or the nation salvation, niether of these even has a soul to save. Taxes, taken by force of law rather than by effect of individual will, will rarely, if ever, serve the goodness of the soul of those who give them.
Not aware of both John Paul II The Great and recently Pope Benedict’s Encyclicals criticized the extremes of each, Especially the Extremes of Capitalism that Caused the 2000’s Massive World economic collapse that Taxpayers through Government are still trying to save: severe Crisis in the Entire World?
Moderation, Balance is what succeeds: fair to all. unbiased Facts blow common myths and self serving propaganda away.
I don’t know why you assume that I’m unaware of the writings of our two most recent popes. This insinuation lacks charity (and truth) on your part. I’m not saying that a strict capitolist systems represents the will of God, I’m merely pointing out that a strict socialist system is absolutely contrary to the teaching of the church (something that Pope John Paul II echoes repeatedly in his writings against communism).
Not aware that the Most Taxed, most ā€˜socialilist’ Countries: Scandinazvian, Always Lead the USA in PER CAPITA Personal Donations in Crises, like the flooding in SE Asia, etc., etc.? And guess Where the Highest Standard of Living Nations Are: The Heavily ā€œSocialistā€ Nations like Iceland, Norway? We rank far from the top.
Of course I’m not aware of that… because it isn’t TRUE! [Here’s (http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income-oped-cx_ee_1226eaves.html) a forbes article which tells the truth (that in terms of money, Americans give the most per capita)

In terms of welfare given, of course the socialist countries give the most: their people are taxed so heavily they NEED the welfare to survive. Americans are taxed much less, so it makes sense that our welfare system is smaller, per capita. But the social welfare spending by the government is the ONLY monetary donation place where any of the countries you quoted top America… why? Because in all the world, America gives the most per capita in terms of PERSONAL donations, followed by Israel and then Canada. Scandinavia and Norway both invest more in personal time because their people cannot afford to donate as much money since they’re so heavily taxed.

I’m familiar with both systems, I’ve lived in three countries and been to half the continents in the world. Socialism is an evil system that does not work in any of its practical applications (and before you say it does in Norway and Scandinavia, take a look at Norway’s debt… it’s three steps away from becoming the next Greece and their government is already addressing the need for austerity spending. Scandinavia isn’t much behind Norway in terms of economic failure)
 
If it makes money it is good? Where did you get the idea that all Capitalists think that? Are some capitalists ruled by greed? Sure. There are bad apples in any group. Let’s look at the great Socialist icons: Joseph Stalin killed at least 20 million people, Mao Zedong caused the death of over 40 million by his policies. Che Guevara whose image we see on the T-shirts of young socialists was a mass murderer. Are these people your heroes? Are they in heaven? They weren’t capitalists so they must be by your standards.
 
If ā€œit is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heavenā€ doesn’t mean that rich people go to hell, where is Christ saying that they are going?
and what can this be other than a condemnation of the pursuit of wealth which is what capitalism is all about.
 
If ā€œit is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heavenā€ doesn’t mean that rich people go to hell, where is Christ saying that they are going?
and what can this be other than a condemnation of the pursuit of wealth which is what capitalism is all about.
I’m curious about where you got the definition that capitalism is defined as the pursuit of wealth. That sounds less like a statement out of an economics text and more like a direct pull from socialist propaganda…
 
La relación entre la fe y la razón expuesta parabolicamente por Cristo al ciego de nacimiento (Juan IX, 39), nos enseƱa la necesidad del raciocinio para hacer juicio justo de nuestras creencias, a fin de disolver las falsas certezas de la fe que nos hacen ciegos a la verdad mediante el discernimiento de los textos bĆ­blicos. Lo cual nos exige criticar el profetismo judĆ­o o revelación para indagar ā€œsi es verdad o es mentiraā€ que los textos bĆ­blicos son palabra de Dios. Enmarcado la crĆ­tica en el fenómeno espiritual de la trasformación humana y, las ciencias y tĆ©cnicas que nos ayudan a desarrollarnos espiritualmente. Abordados por la doctrina y la teorĆ­a de la trascendencia humana, conceptualizadas por los filósofos griegos y los mĆ­sticos hindĆŗes. SabidurĆ­a vĆ©dica instruida por Buda e ilustrada por Cristo, la cual concuerda con los planteamientos de la filosofĆ­a clĆ”sica y moderna, y las respuestas que la ciencia ha dado a los planteamientos trascendentales: (psicologĆ­a, psicoterapia, logoterĆ”pia, desarrollo humano, etc.). Utilizando los principios universales del saber filosófico y espiritual como tabla rasa, a fin de deslindar y hacer objetivo lo ā€œque esā€ o ā€œno esā€ del mundo del espĆ­ritu. MĆ©todo o criterio que nos ayuda a discernir objetivamente __la verdad o el error en los textos bĆ­blicos analizando los diferentes aspectos y caracterĆ­sticas que integran la triada preteológica: (la fenomenologĆ­a, la explicación y la aplicación, del encuentro cercano escritos en los textos bĆ­blicos). Vg: la conducta de los profetas Abraham y MoisĆ©s, no es la conducta de los mĆ­sticos; la directriz del pensamiento de Abraham, es el deseo intenso de llegar a tener una descendencia numerosĆ­sima y llegar a ser un paĆ­s rico como el de Ur, deseo intenso y obsesivo que es opuesto al despego de las cosas materiales pregonado por Cristo y seguido por los mĆ­sticos y; es por ello, que la promesas de YahvĆ© a Abraham son alucinaciones contestatarias de los deseos del patriarca, y no tienen nada que ver con el mundo del espĆ­ritu. La directriz del pensamiento de MoisĆ©s, es la existencia de Israel entre la naciones a fin de llegar a ser la principal de todas, que es opuesta a la directriz de vida eterna o existencia despuĆ©s de la vida que orienta el pensamiento mĆ­stico (Vg: la moradas celestiales, la salvación o perdición eterna a causa del bien o mal de nuestras obras en el juicio final de nuestra vida terrenal, abordadas por Cristo); el encuentro cercano descrito por MoisĆ©s en la zarza ardiente describe el fuego fatuo; el pie del rayo que pasa por el altar erigido por MoisĆ©s en el Monte Horeb, describe un fenómeno meteorológico; el pacto del SinaĆ­ o mito fundacional de Israel como nación entre las naciones por voluntad divina a fin de santificar sus ancestros, su pueblo, su territorio, JerusalĆ©n, el templo y la Torah; descripciones que no corresponden al encuentro cercano expresado por Cristo al experimentar la comĆŗn unión: ā€œEl Padre y Yo, somos una misma cosaā€, la cual coincide con la descrita por los mĆ­sticos iluminados. Las leyes de la guerra dictadas por MoisĆ©s en el Deuteronomio causales del despojo, exterminio y sometimiento de las doce tribus cananeas y del actual genocidio del pueblo palestino, hacen evidente la ideologĆ­a racista, criminal y genocida serial que sigue el pueblo judĆ­o desde tiempos bĆ­blicos hasta hoy en dĆ­a, conducta opuesta a la doctrina de la no violencia enseƱada por Cristo __ Discernimiento que nos aporta las suficientes pruebas objetivas de juicio que nos dan la certeza que el profetismo judĆ­o o revelación bĆ­blica, es un semillero del mal OPUESTO A LAS ENSEƑANZAS DE CRISTO, ya que en lugar de sanar y prevenir las enfermedades del alma para desarrollarnos espiritualmente, enerva a sus seguidores provocĆ”ndoles: alucinaciones, estulticia, delirios, histeria y paranoia; propiciando la bibliolatrĆ­a, el fanatismo, la intolerancia, el puritanismo, el sectarismo, e impidiendo su desarrollo espiritual. scribd.com/doc/17148152/ EN-DEFENSA-DE-LAS-RAICES-CRISTIANAS-DE-EUROPA-LAICA
 
  • promethius, do you even know what ā€˜socialism’ is? Don’t cloistered Nuns, Brothers, Monks live in shared self-supporting housing, not For Profit? Ditto very many examples. Didn’t Our Lord tell the Apostles to Leave Friends, Family, And Earthly Goods and Follow Him? ā€œSocialismā€, which is everywhere in the world, and Most Efficient economically, has been Falselly Pictured as Evil Personified. Look up what Socialism Is, please
    . Please explain try to explain how/why ā€œSocialism at it’s very best is an affront against Godā€ Per Se
Many people have a mistaken view that socialism is an economic system. It is not; it is a philosophy. When I trained for the priesthood many years ago socialism was a module in my philosophy degree, not my economics course.

Socialism is a philosophy which has always and everywhere, overtly or covertly, made it its first objective to remove God generally and Catholicism specifically from national and ultimately international discourse. The mistake is easily made, because socialism cleverly claims compassion as its own. But compassion is not its ultimate end, as the history of socialism (which includes the Nazism/National Socialism you excoriate, by the way) fairly conclusively shows. The only aim of socialism is to strip man of his transcendence, and to create a world so obsessed with values on the horizontal plane that the vertical plane is erased from the memory.

The message of compassion preached by socialism is a ploy to gain power. Here in Ireland the Labour Party spent the pre-election campaign talking about the economy, and have spent their time since in government attacking the Catholic Church (treading carefully, of course, as is their wont). Open your eyes and you will see that this is the legacy of socialism always and everywhere.

And finally, left and right are nothing but another ploy to get people thinking horizontally, and to get them to forget their call to know and love God FIRST. Both socialism and capitalism therefore are the progeny of one and the same father. Who funded the socialist revolution in Russia in 1917? it wasn’t the working man in Russia, I can assure you.

No Catholic should concern himself with either left or right to the detriment of his primary duty as a child of God to love and obey God, and to find in this love and obedience the inspiration to love and serve other people.
 
In a recent ā€œThis Rockā€ magazine, there was an article (I believe by Mark Brumley) entitled ā€œWas Jesus a Socialistā€? He explains that many of Jesus’ comments that would seem to favor socialism are actually a use of Hyperbole. While I agree with his premise, how would one answer the critic who might argue that Jesus used Hyperbole in John 6:51-56 where he tells the people they must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life?
This is actually fairly easy to answer: Jesus clarifies misinterpretation. Read Mark 8:14-21.
It is unthinkable that his discourse in John 6:51-56 which would led to a colossal misinterpretation (if it were not literal) would not merit from Him a very patient explanation!
 
Many people have a mistaken view that socialism is an economic system. It is not; it is a philosophy. When I trained for the priesthood many years ago socialism was a module in my philosophy degree, not my economics course.

Socialism is a philosophy which has always and everywhere, overtly or covertly, made it its first objective to remove God generally and Catholicism specifically from national and ultimately international discourse. The mistake is easily made, because socialism cleverly claims compassion as its own. But compassion is not its ultimate end, as the history of socialism (which includes the Nazism/National Socialism you excoriate, by the way) fairly conclusively shows. The only aim of socialism is to strip man of his transcendence, and to create a world so obsessed with values on the horizontal plane that the vertical plane is erased from the memory.

The message of compassion preached by socialism is a ploy to gain power. Here in Ireland the Labour Party spent the pre-election campaign talking about the economy, and have spent their time since in government attacking the Catholic Church (treading carefully, of course, as is their wont). Open your eyes and you will see that this is the legacy of socialism always and everywhere.

And finally, left and right are nothing but another ploy to get people thinking horizontally, and to get them to forget their call to know and love God FIRST. Both socialism and capitalism therefore are the progeny of one and the same father. Who funded the socialist revolution in Russia in 1917? it wasn’t the working man in Russia, I can assure you.

No Catholic should concern himself with either left or right to the detriment of his primary duty as a child of God to love and obey God, and to find in this love and obedience the inspiration to love and serve other people.
  • Sorry, Please read the Entire ** ā€œSocialismā€** detailed Academic presentations on the Wikki. :eek: Pope Leo XIII Novum Rovarum and Pope John Paul II theGreat an exact Century later Wrote definitivelly on ā€œSocialismā€, excluding the extremes like Communism and Mega Rich control. Bible based. The Site is Very a great discovery: ā€˜Everything’ is generic socialist, including the Capitalist, Communist Extremes to avoid.
    Code:
                                                                                                                               "Socialism" Is morality Based,    and        all inclusive The Norm,  if we Study  that     Thought-Provoking Academic    series of Studies.   It  is Misreprented in the USA and  wealhiest  interests only    as an    evil,  The  Attack  word.                                                                                                                            Aware  that  the New        attacks on Religion,    even   Morality,  Ethnicity, Cultures  are by   the  Mega-Rich world  forces  now, because  those things  hurt  Profits and  sales?     I  was stunned to  discover this   a  few years ago,   having thought  as you  have. One  Mega-Rich  Billionaire,  Murdoch,     purchaser  of Major Nation's    (South   Africa,  Britain,   Australia, the  USA) principal  media    has not only  misrepresented  Everything, everybody   opposed to  Mega-Rich  ideas,  ***  But   also   Who Governs   and  what Policies    Legislatures  Pass.   One Man    controlling      Governing  is abhorrant,  especially  because it is Anti-Christ,  Anti  Morality,   Anti    Ethics.  ***
  • Murdoch’s top staff Methods are under Major British and now USA FBI investigation for How Many basic Laws have been violated: Criminally, Too promote, ā€˜sell’ the Mega-Rich narrow self-serving agenda.
    Vivat Jesu, not wealthy Power. The Popes armies of Billions Prayers caused the Collaspse of Soviet Communism, with the Pastoral Visit if a Fundamental Christ Filled Priest: Blessed John Paul II the Great: Gorbachov Said so.
 
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nosmelc:
Nosmelk posting # 5, please see my extensive, documented Post # 31. Novum Rovarum by Pope Pius XIII is Bible Based, on Socialism.
 
I’m curious about where you got the definition that capitalism is defined as the pursuit of wealth. That sounds less like a statement out of an economics text and more like a direct pull from socialist propaganda…
Opposite of ā€˜socialist propaganda’, what is the Fuindamental Basis/Motivation of Captitalism? IMO: Maximum growth of Profits/Wealth, with the resulting Power. Please correct where I err. I am Capitalist, but not any Extremes. Am firmest believer that the Wealthiest Pay the appropriate amount of Taxes, and never receive Federal Taxpayer welfare, as Exxon Mobil and General Electric have received (Dick Chamey 2001 ff) the last 2 several years… Know of them? The USA has to Borrow big money from China, to cover our Federal expenses They don’t pay fairly, and the Taxpayer Subsidies them and many other Richest, Biggest Profits. Know where they create jobs? Not the USA, Africa according to one TV Ad, repeatedly. Didn’t Our Lord teach clearly to Render unto Ceaser (The Denario) Which are Ceaser’s? šŸ‘ IMO, Paying Taxes is Patriotic, and Responsible.
 
I don’t believe that Jesus used hyperbole. He used many figures of speech to teach people about God and how we should live but I don’t see anywhere that Jesus exaggerated anything. As to Jesus saying that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to have eternal life in us; tell me if I’m incorrect but doesn’t the Church teach that the Eucharist is actually Jesus flesh and blood and that we take that into us when we put It in our mouth?

As I remember the situation at the time He said this; after Jesus said this, 5000 people said, "This is too hard for us, turned around and left Jesus. Jesus asked His disciples, ā€œAre you going to leave me too?ā€ If Jesus had been using hyperbole instead of the literal truth, all He would have had to say to get the 5000 disciples back would have been to say, "Hay guys! Don’t go! I was only using a figure of speech!

The fact that Jesus didn’t say that proves to me that He was speaking the Literal Truth. On a personal note. I was a Protestant who converted to become a Catholic when I was 27 y/o. One of the reasons I did that was that I was a guest during the Catholic Mass and out of respect I was not going to go up to take the Eucharist. I did go up after Jesus said to me 3 times, "Al, would you refuse me? I have no doubts that the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Jesus. God bless you dear Brothers in Christ.
 
Maybe. Scripture teaches us to obey legitimate authority (Romans 13:4), and render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.

I believe the point in this particular article was that Jesus does not forbid private property ownership and wealth. The line is crossed when we value the possessions and wealth more than our relationship with God and our neighbor. Even socialism with the best of intentions at best fails, and worse becomes totalitarian. Look at the Amana Colonies in Iowa. Their system of peaceful communism lasted about as long as communism in the Soviet Union. Human nature just doesn’t work that way.
 
Jesus may not have directly condemned private property ownership, but he told the rich man to give away his possessions if he wanted to go to heaven even though the man was a good and moral person. Why? And someone please tell me where, according to Jesus, the rich go when they die?
and for the sake of clarity, my criticism of capitalism does not mean i am a socialist. the political debate in the U.S. is dumb. the things we have taken from socialism: social security, the 40hr. work week, medicaid and medicare, and hopefully in the future socialized medicine, are all positive things that help balance our society and are not steps down the slippery slope to tyranny as the fools who follow fox believe.
 
šŸ¤“:whistle:

Sorry: Cultural, historic misunderstandings because the Bible was mostly written in the parables, culture of the Time (they didn’t even write in English, nor with modern words ;)) Please get the Most definitive Bible, The history of every Book of the Bible explained, as are More Verrses than any other: Referenced Culturally: [SIGN]US Conference of Catholic Bishops: * New American Bible *[/SIGN](9.00 Paperback, available Everywhere.) :bible1:
The Church has Never said Anyone has gone to hell; Only God, not bible verses decide; we Humans can’t. ā€œThe Eye of The Needleā€ was One Narrow gate, the widest into Jerusem, that even the Wealthiest had to unload some of the Bags if their cargo Carriers: Pack Mules. The Richest and most tallented have a greater obligation to help others; and most Catholics Do.
 
no, Jesus did not say anyone was going to hell, but if the eye of the needle he was talking about was a city gate why would he imply it was even difficult for a camel to pass through it? it seems to me that Jesus was making the point that it is, at least, extremely difficult for rich people to get into heaven and i referred to the quote to argue that Jesus would have been more opposed to a society based on individual gain than a more cooperative one, such as that created within the Catholic Church.
 
I’m curious about where you got the definition that capitalism is defined as the pursuit of wealth. That sounds less like a statement out of an economics text and more like a direct pull from socialist propaganda…
 
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