Jesus vs Muhammad

[Loboto-Me]

I keep reading why did Jesus (Glory To Him) and the apostles abstain from eating pork or blood. Where does it say that in the bible? I’ve never read anything of the sort unless I’ve skipped over the passage somewhere.

 

[qwerk]

I keep reading why did Jesus (Glory To Him) and the apostles abstain from eating pork or blood. Where does it say that in the bible? I’ve never read anything of the sort unless I’ve skipped over the passage somewhere.

Who really cares? They probably did what all good Jews did.

Islam teaches to worry about eating pork but ignores the 10 Commandments and all the other dietary practices that was taught?

It worries about what we eat and does nothing about the violence perpetrated against others in the name of Islam?

There is some real big deficit in this line of reasoning.

 

[MOCatholic]

The Pharisees point out that Jesus and His disciples are doing something unclean according to the law. Jesus then tells the crowd "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ "

What would the crowd have understood? They would have understood that many things make you unclean: biblegateway.com/topical/topical_searchresults.php?search=unclean

Using this term encompasses more than just washing hands. If Jesus just wanted to deal with hand washing, he would not have told the crowd that in, in general, nothing from the outside makes someone unclean, but instead it’s what’s on the inside. He would have specifically dealt with hand washing, but instead hand washing is the example the Pharisees used, and so it’s the example he uses to tie the message back to a real world example. An example used to illustrate a general concept does not limit the general concept in any language I have encountered.

 

[dzheremi]

And who exactly is informing Christians that their Church leaders are being guided by the Holy Spirit?

Erm… let me guess… Could it be that the Church leaders themselves have been informing the flock that they are being guided by the Holy Spirit?

Do my eyes now deceive me? Unbelievable! You of all people are in absolutely no place to protest another’s use of what you see as circular logic! After all: Who or what tells you that Muhammad taught the true religion, and not falsehoods and distortions as we say he did? I’m going to take a wild guess and assume that your answer will somehow reference the Islamic idea that God Himself somehow confirmed Muhammad’s prophethood, guaranteed his transmission, etc. After all, it was supposedly God Himself (through the intermediary of the angel Gabriel) who gave Muhammad his “revelations” which nobody else ever saw or verified.

Well, if you are willing to accept all these as the Islamic idea (and, even more to the point, if you expect us to accept them on that level), then you must also accept the Christian idea of how we know that Christ’s church is being guided by the Holy Spirit: We believe it because, just like you believe God said so regarding Muhammad and Islam, God Himself told us it would be so! It is recorded many places in the Bible that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18), that the Holy Spirit will be sent from the Father to be with His believers forever (Jn. 4:16), etc. Again, you don’t have to believe in any of this yourself, but at least don’t mock it out of hand when you have no recourse but to use comparable argumentation. We believe in the Holy Spirit’s guidance of the Church (no matter what church we believe to be Christ’s Church) because as Christians, we be believe in Christ and in the Holy Bible as the one and only correct record of His teachings and sayings (not the Qur’an). I suspect you would say similar things about the Qur’an if the tables were reversed and we asked you why you believe in Islam, the Qur’an, and Muhammad.

 

[hamba2han]

I’ve jumped into this thread very late and haven’t been able to read all the posts. I apologize if I don’t understand what you have posted above. But what you posted implies to me that you don’t understand the Church and her teaching authority, the Magisterium.

No. It’s not some sort of conspiracy ala Jack Chick. The Church leaders may indeed inform the flock that they are being guided by the Holy Spirit, but it doesn’t really matter if they do so (and I have never heard that they have done so) because we already know the Holy Spirit guides the Magisterium. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church:

“Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” [Matthew 16:18-19, Douay-Rheims Bible]

I don’t think Jesus is a wimpy god who does things in a lazy, lackadaisical method, or who lies. I believe that what He said is Truth.

When it comes to matters of dogma, the Church is indeed guided by the Holy Spirit. Why wouldn’t she be? If she weren’t, wouldn’t that mean that the gates of hell have prevailed against her? Wouldn’t that mean Jesus lied to us? Do you think God would abandon His Church? The Church He founded? Why would He ever do this? Why wouldn’t He guide her? As He is God, so is the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit, as God, who guides the Church.

Praise and glory be given to God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit! And may peace be with us all!

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

Jesus, I love you. Please bestow upon me the gift of faith.*

From what I read in Wikipedia, there are different accounts to the story of Peter and even some doubt as to his actual position and role in the early Church.

However, even if it is true that he became the first leader of the Church, the teachings of the Church underwent many changes long after his death.

The doctrine of the Trinity for example was non-existent during the time of Peter… and so, is the doctrine of the Trinity guided by the Holy Spirit then?

I would think that the Church leaders who came many years after Peter would certainly assert that.

 

[richardacombs]

Oh… it cannot get any clearer than that you say?? …

Well, if it is so clear that nothing that a person eats will make him ‘unclean’ as Christians say what the verse in question means, then the question remains → Why did Jesus (pbuh) himself abstain from eating pork and blood?

Why indeed did all of his disciples abstain from eating pork and blood throughout their entire lives?

And if Christians answer that dietary prohibitions applies only to Jews and not themselves, then where in the Bible does Jesus (pbuh) himself say this in clear and unequivocal terms?

If as I suspect, Christians are relying ONLY on the words of their Church leaders to support this claim of theirs that dietary prohibitions apply only to Jews… and they are NOT referring to the actual words of Jesus (pbuh) himself, then the only thing that is very clear to me is the truth of this verse in the Qur’an …

You only confirm and prove the words and divinity of Jesus, when he said and foresaw in Matthew 13:13: **" For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand." **(New Living Translation)

 

[hamba2han]

Do my eyes now deceive me? Unbelievable! You of all people are in absolutely no place to protest another’s use of what you see as circular logic! After all: Who or what tells you that Muhammad taught the true religion, and not falsehoods and distortions as we say he did? I’m going to take a wild guess and assume that your answer will somehow reference the Islamic idea that God Himself somehow confirmed Muhammad’s prophethood, guaranteed his transmission, etc. After all, it was supposedly God Himself (through the intermediary of the angel Gabriel) who gave Muhammad his “revelations” which nobody else ever saw or verified.

Well, if you are willing to accept all these as the Islamic idea (and, even more to the point, if you expect us to accept them on that level), then you must also accept the Christian idea of how we know that Christ’s church is being guided by the Holy Spirit: We believe it because, just like you believe God said so regarding Muhammad and Islam, God Himself told us it would be so! It is recorded many places in the Bible that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18), that the Holy Spirit will be sent from the Father to be with His believers forever (Jn. 4:16), etc. Again, you don’t have to believe in any of this yourself, but at least don’t mock it out of hand when you have no recourse but to use comparable argumentation. We believe in the Holy Spirit’s guidance of the Church (no matter what church we believe to be Christ’s Church) because as Christians, we be believe in Christ and in the Holy Bible as the one and only correct record of His teachings and sayings (not the Qur’an). I suspect you would say similar things about the Qur’an if the tables were reversed and we asked you why you believe in Islam, the Qur’an, and Muhammad.

You have missed the point that I was making.

Muslims use the Qur’an and the Sunnah as the primary source of divine guidance, any other source would be secondary.

By comparison, what do Christians use as their primary source of guidance – the teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh) or the teachings of the Church?

It is obvious to me that most Christians view the latter as their primary source of divine guidance.

 

[seraphime2008]

You have missed the point that I was making.

Muslims use the Qur’an and the Sunnah as the primary source of divine guidance, any other source would be secondary.

By comparison, what do Christians use as their primary source of guidance – the teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh) or the teachings of the Church?

It is obvious to me that most Christians view the latter as their primary source of divine guidance.

Hamba2Han or slave of God,
Perhaps you would consider this link as an eye opener or food for thoughts for what you’ve been missing so far that all the other Christians here have tried to show you, but since your arrogance or your preconceived mind had kept you blinded, this could perhaps help you to hopefully understand that we do consider the primary sources of our belief is really taken from the Bible and from Christ himself:

godandscience.org/ppt/Atheist_Myths2.html

Another link below could also bring you to non-muslim consideration whether Muhammad was really receiving revelations from God or he was making all this stuff since he had all the access to some sort of heretics of Christian in the past (a sect of Jewish-Messianic cult called the Ebionites of which his uncle Waraqa bin Nafal was in charged of or involved in). It’s really very informative and makes people could relate and make senses to all the different messages and dualism in Islam that can be seen from the Medinan time and the Meccan time.

adonis49.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/the-parson-and-the-prophet-book-review/

 

[LittleSoldier]

From what I read in Wikipedia, there are different accounts to the story of Peter and even some doubt as to his actual position and role in the early Church.

However, even if it is true that he became the first leader of the Church, the teachings of the Church underwent many changes long after his death.

The doctrine of the Trinity for example was non-existent during the time of Peter… and so, is the doctrine of the Trinity guided by the Holy Spirit then?

I would think that the Church leaders who came many years after Peter would certainly assert that.

Wiki is an online pseudo-encyclopedia. Anyone can makes changes. I have made a change myself. Relying on Wiki as your source for information on the Catholic Church (or anything else, for that matter) is probably a mistake.

What makes you think that the doctrine of the Trinity was non-existent during the time of Peter? And even if it were so, the Church has never stated that the Trinity does not exist and then turned around and stated it does exist. The Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, may discover Truths which she has not been aware of in the past. The Church is a living Church, not a dead organization which cannot add to her stores of knowledge.

There are many passages in the Bible which provide evidence that the Trinity exists. In fact, there are so many that I wonder why anyone would question it! We, as humans, may not be able to conceive of the Trinity. So what? God is divine. God is omniscient and omnipotent. Why would we expect to be able to understand everything about God?

(1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

1. The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

1. The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.
2. Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
3. There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
4. The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

All these passages were penned by men under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe tonight.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

Jesus, I love you. Please bestow upon me the gift of faith.*

 

[LittleSoldier]

You have missed the point that I was making.

Muslims use the Qur’an and the Sunnah as the primary source of divine guidance, any other source would be secondary.

By comparison, what do Christians use as their primary source of guidance – the teachings of Jesus Christ (pbuh) or the teachings of the Church?

It is obvious to me that most Christians view the latter as their primary source of divine guidance.

Um, if you’re referring to the Catholic Church by your reference to “Church” you should probably be aware that not all Christians are Catholic, though all Catholics are Christians. Non-Catholic Christians probably don’t rely on the Catholic Church for anything. Why would they?

I don’t know about most Christians, although I believe they mostly use the Bible as their primary source of divine guidance.

Catholics use two sources: the Bible and Apostolic Tradition. There are reasons for this:

(1) There is no way possible that the Bible can contain all knowledge and divine guidance.

“This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things, and hath written these things; and we know that his testimony is true. But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.”

[John 21:24-25, Douay-Rheims]

So how do we find out about these "many other things which Jesus (Glory and Honor to Him!) did? We know the Holy Spirit (Glory and Honor to Him!) guides us. We know the Holy Spirit (Honor and Glory to Him!) is God. We rely on the Truth that is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit (Praise and Glory to Him!) through the Church, whose leader is the Vicar of Christ (i.e. stands in Jesus’ (Glory and Praise to Him!) place on earth).

But Tradition can NEVER contradict scripture.

"Protestants claim the Bible is the only rule of faith, meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. In the Protestant view, the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages. Anything extraneous to the Bible is simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong—and may well hinder one in coming to God.

"Catholics, on the other hand, recognize that the Bible does not end. The true “rule of faith”—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

"In the Second Vatican Council’s document on divine revelation, Dei Verbum (Latin: “The Word of God”), the relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

“Thus, by the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence.”

catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp

You seem to imply that Catholics are a bunch of mindless sheep who follow an equally mindless church. That is not so. Catholics are members of the Church that was founded by Jesus (Praise and Glory to Him!) Himself. We take that very seriously.

As I stated before, I don’t believe Jesus (Praise and Honor and Glory to Him!) lies. I don’t think He would form a mindless church. Why would He do such a thing to the people He loves?

Peace to you.

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

Jesus, I love you. Please bestow upon me the gift of faith.*

 

[planten]

Whatever the christian posters are writing is almost some defeatist posts. I have read and observed the posts of hamba are gentle and very true.

Even though Wikipedia may not be much reliable, even then it is far superior to what the christians are posting on the Catholics Answers forum. The posts of hamba are precise and compact, meaningful.

The christians ahve difficulty in facing Hamba and they are trying to defame hamba un-necessarily. I have no need to add anything to what hamba has already written. I suppoprt Hamba in the above few posts 100%. Long Live hamba.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Whatever the christian posters are writing is almost some defeatist posts. I have read and observed the posts of hamba are gentle and very true.

Even though Wikipedia may not be much reliable, even then it is far superior to what the christians are posting on the Catholics Answers forum. The posts of hamba are precise and compact, meaningful.

The christians ahve difficulty in facing Hamba and they are trying to defame hamba un-necessarily. I have no need to add anything to what hamba has already written. I suppoprt Hamba in the above few posts 100%. Long Live hamba.

Do you include the Bible in your assessment? Are you saying that Wiki is superior to the Bible?

Wow.

I am Christian and I have no difficulty facing Hamba. I am not trying to defame Hamba, whether it’s necessary or not. Hamba is a human being, just like you, and you are both children of God. Ergo, I love both of you.

Your blanket statements about Christians, no matter your intentions, are just that - blanket statements. You’re dumping every Christian into one category and not understanding that every Christian (just like every Muslim) is a unique human being. And we are all creations of a loving God. Every one of us. Even me.

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe tonight.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

Jesus, I love you. Please bestow upon me the gift of faith.*

 

[elwill]

just wanna to say to all our fellow christians , that you have your rights to believe in holy ghost and the guidence of church by it

but considering such point when you dapate non-christians have no sense .

which of churchs be guided by holy ghost , dose holy ghost guided all of them
does the holy ghost guides all priests of church (including those who molested children) or dose it guide some of them ? and how do you know if that briest have holy ghost and the other havn’t ? , or may be someone else supposed to be gided by holy ghost will decide if other priest be guided or not

inserting holy ghost as an answer for nonchristian questions is impossible to be convinced

 

[Reuben_J]

just wanna to say to all our fellow christians , that you have your rights to believe in holy ghost and the guidence of church by it

but considering such point when you dapate non-christians have no sense .

which of churchs be guided by holy ghost , dose holy ghost guided all of them
does the holy ghost guides all priests of church (including those who molested children) or dose it guide some of them ? and how do you know if that briest have holy ghost and the other havn’t ? , or may be someone else supposed to be gided by holy ghost will decide if other priest be guided or not

inserting holy ghost as an answer for nonchristian questions is impossible to be convinced

Could someone kindly explain to this poster how the Holy Spirit guides the Church so that she will be not in error in matters pertaining to moral, faith and doctrine.

But alas he mentions about errand priests and that perhaps makes the intention of his queries rather suspect. Not much different when some of us liken everything Islam to Ben Laden.

inserting holy ghost as an answer for nonchristian questions is impossible to be convinced

Muslims, among all the people, should be the last not to know this principle - that God guides his people and church. That God speaks to the prophets. Where does that leave the Quran if not for the belief that Allah spoke to Mohammad? In Christianity, it goes further, that God is with them and gives them divine guidance in their daily lives and in the understanding of the Bible though He will not reveal anything new other than what had been revealed in there.

The only thing that Muslims can say about the Christian Church being guided by the Holy Spirit is to say they do not believe in Christian’s Holy Spirit. That would be acceptable considering that you are Muslims, just like us , we do not believe your Mohammad. But insisting that you do not know about God guides the Church is hard to believe that you do not tell a lie.

 

[elwill]

Could someone kindly explain to this poster how the Holy Spirit guides the Church so that she will be not in error in matters pertaining to moral, faith and doctrine.

what about you telling me which church (sect) be guided by holy ghost , because i think all of them proclaimed to be guided by it

claiming that holy ghost is the source of your doctorine isn’t testable for me , that’s all what i meant
you can’t use holy Ghost issue but with christians themselfs to strengthen their faith and convince them with your thoughts , for us (non- christian ) we will test christianity from it’s sources not from each one proclaim he have holy ghost with him , it will make us considering thouasands different holy-ghosts , where each one have his own

even the prophets themselfs wasn’t enough for them to say " we are prophets , we are guided by God " they should to have miracles for their people to trust them

But alas he mentions about errand priests and that perhaps makes the intention of his queries rather suspect. Not much different when some of us liken everything Islam to Ben Laden.

don’t miss my point
when you say that church is guided by ghost , it means that fathers and priests of such church are guided by holy ghost
but you know , and i know that sometimes priests going against the teaching of church and the teaching of holy ghost consequently , which means that not always the priests are guided by holy ghost

isn’t my thought logic to you ?

Muslims, among all the people, should be the last not to know this principle - that God guides his people and church. That God speaks to the prophets. Where does that leave the Quran if not for the belief that Allah spoke to Mohammad? In Christianity, it goes further, that God is with them and gives them divine guidance in their daily lives and in the understanding of the Bible though He will not reveal anything new other than what had been revealed in there.

The only thing that Muslims can say about the Christian Church being guided by the Holy Spirit is to say they do not believe in Christian’s Holy Spirit. That would be acceptable considering that you are Muslims, just like us , we do not believe your Mohammad. But insisting that you do not know about God guides the Church is hard to believe that you do not tell a lie.

my point was specific , you can use guidence of holy spirit as an answer when you can’t find it in your bible , i just made my hint . and you can simply ignore it
peace

 

[LittleSoldier]

what about you telling me which church (sect) be guided by holy ghost , because i think all of them proclaimed to be guided by it

claiming that holy ghost is the source of your doctorine isn’t testable for me , that’s all what i meant
you can’t use holy Ghost issue but with christians themselfs to strengthen their faith and convince them with your thoughts , for us (non- christian ) we will test christianity from it’s sources not from each one proclaim he have holy ghost with him , it will make us considering thouasands different holy-ghosts , where each one have his own

even the prophets themselfs wasn’t enough for them to say " we are prophets , we are guided by God " they should to have miracles for their people to trust them

How could it be testable for you? What proof would you required? Can you prove God exists? Can you prove Muhammad ever existed? I mean PROOF, not evidence, but all-out PROOF.

I have listed many Bible passages regarding the Trinity (the Holy Spirit is one of the Trinity and is God). Did you read these? Did you check these out?

Where are your miracles? Why should I believe what you say? Why should I be Muslim?

You are requesting Christians to provide proof for the existence of a being that you believe in (God) but you can’t prove God exists, either! Do you understand how illogical that is?

It’s not like there is a blank space in all Catholic Dogma that is filled in by when we can’t prove something or are too lazy to find evidence for.

There is ONE Holy Spirit, just one. There always has been one and there will always be one. Not thousands of little demi-gods, one little holy spirit for each “sect,” but ONE. During the Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus’ Apostles, who were hiding in a room out of fear:

"And when the days of the Pentecost were accomplished, they were all together in one place: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty wind coming, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them parted tongues as it were of fire, and it sat upon every one of them: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost gave them to speak.

[Acts 2:1-4, Douay-Rheims Bible] This passage shows that the Holy Spirit endows humans with wisdom.

don’t miss my point
when you say that church is guided by ghost , it means that fathers and priests of such church are guided by holy ghost
but you know , and i know that sometimes priests going against the teaching of church and the teaching of holy ghost consequently , which means that not always the priests are guided by holy ghost

isn’t my thought logic to you ?

No, your thought is not logical to me. Priests are human beings and they sin. Are you perfect? Is every Muslim perfect? I don’t think so. Sexual abuse of children occurs in every organization and every church and every religion, and frankly, Muslims have been accused of a multitude of atrocities, including sexual abuse of children, kidnapping, rape, murder, and genocide.

Anyone can be guided by the Holy Spirit. Even me. But Catholics have a central authority - people who have spent years and years and years in prayer, contemplation, and study. These people are a lot smarter than me and a lot smarter than you. They are a lot more knowledgeable about the Bible and Tradition than me and a lot more knowledgeable about the Bible and Tradition than you. They speak Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. They know the Bible better than probably anyone else in the world. We as Catholics trust them. We believe they are guided by the Holy Spirit in their endeavours.

We know our Church was founded by Jesus (Glory and Honor to Him!). We trust in His words. We know He does not lie and we know He loves us. The Holy Spirit is as much God as Jesus (Honor and Glory be to Him!). Do you honestly think that every “sect” has its own Jesus (Glory and Praise to Him!)? I hope you don’t.

my point was specific , you can use guidence of holy spirit as an answer when you can’t find it in your bible , i just made my hint . and you can simply ignore it
peace

We could use “guidance of a green goat” too, but we don’t. It’s IN the Bible! I really don’t think you took the time to look up those passages I provided, did you? Did you look up any of them? I am trying to help you understand Christianity and Catholicism. Isn’t that what you want?

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

Jesus, I love you. Please bestow upon me the gift of faith.*

 

[elwill]

How could it be testable for you? What proof would you required? Can you prove God exists? Can you prove Muhammad ever existed? I mean PROOF, not evidence, but all-out PROOF.

I have listed many Bible passages regarding the Trinity (the Holy Spirit is one of the Trinity and is God). Did you read these? Did you check these out?

Where are your miracles? Why should I believe what you say? Why should I be Muslim?

You are requesting Christians to provide proof for the existence of a being that you believe in (God) but you can’t prove God exists, either! Do you understand how illogical that is?

It’s not like there is a blank space in all Catholic Dogma that is filled in by when we can’t prove something or are too lazy to find evidence for.

There is ONE Holy Spirit, just one. There always has been one and there will always be one. Not thousands of little demi-gods, one little holy spirit for each “sect,” but ONE. During the Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus’ Apostles, who were hiding in a room out of fear:

"And when the days of the Pentecost were accomplished, they were all together in one place: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty wind coming, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them parted tongues as it were of fire, and it sat upon every one of them: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost gave them to speak.

[Acts 2:1-4, Douay-Rheims Bible] This passage shows that the Holy Spirit endows humans with wisdom.

No, your thought is not logical to me. Priests are human beings and they sin. Are you perfect? Is every Muslim perfect? I don’t think so. Sexual abuse of children occurs in every organization and every church and every religion, and frankly, Muslims have been accused of a multitude of atrocities, including sexual abuse of children, kidnapping, rape, murder, and genocide.

Anyone can be guided by the Holy Spirit. Even me. But Catholics have a central authority - people who have spent years and years and years in prayer, contemplation, and study. These people are a lot smarter than me and a lot smarter than you. They are a lot more knowledgeable about the Bible and Tradition than me and a lot more knowledgeable about the Bible and Tradition than you. They speak Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. They know the Bible better than probably anyone else in the world. We as Catholics trust them. We believe they are guided by the Holy Spirit in their endeavours.

We know our Church was founded by Jesus (Glory and Honor to Him!). We trust in His words. We know He does not lie and we know He loves us. The Holy Spirit is as much God as Jesus (Honor and Glory be to Him!). Do you honestly think that every “sect” has its own Jesus (Glory and Praise to Him!)? I hope you don’t.

We could use “guidance of a green goat” too, but we don’t. It’s IN the Bible! I really don’t think you took the time to look up those passages I provided, did you? Did you look up any of them? I am trying to help you understand Christianity and Catholicism. Isn’t that what you want?

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

Jesus, I love you. Please bestow upon me the gift of faith.*

thank you for you respond ,
my objections wasn’t about your beliefs in holy ghost or existence of holy ghost

my objection is about using it for questions which have no answers

let me asking you one question
which of churchs be guided by holy ghost ? or all of them are !

 

[LittleSoldier]

thank you for you respond ,
my objections wasn’t about your beliefs in holy ghost or existence of holy ghost

my objection is about using it for questions which have no answers

let me asking you one question
which of churchs be guided by holy ghost ? or all of them are !

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church is the one True Church. We know this because it was founded by Jesus. Every other Christian church split off from the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church is the *only *Church that is guided by the Holy Spirit. Other Christians may believe their churches are guided by the Holy Spirit, but they are wrong.

This is part of what I posted in #367:

"Catholics, on the other hand, recognize that the Bible does not end. The true “rule of faith”—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

"In the Second Vatican Council’s document on divine revelation, Dei Verbum (Latin: “The Word of God”), the relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

"Thus, by the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence."

catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp [bolding added]

If you have problems understanding this because of the language used, please let me know and I will try to word it so you can understand.

But the major point it is making is that both sacred Scripture (the Bible) and sacred Tradition are equally important. We know that the Bible is the Word of God. We also know that it is not the only source for the Word of God. There is also sacred Tradition. If there were not, how would we know what to do when new technology, such as cloning of human beings, appears? That isn’t in the Bible, so what do we do? Do we just accept it as being good, or do we all make up our own minds about it? No. The Truth is revealed to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit. This is sacred Tradition.

Peace to you.

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.

Jesus, I love you! Please bestow upon me the gift of faith.*

 

[planten]

Irrelevant posts from catholics are no use. Elwill is asking about the churches which are guided by holy ghost. Nobody is replying. Now some one is trying to derail the discussion by any other means.

It is wrong of the christians (catholics) to say that their church is the only true church or only they have the truth in the whole world. They feel all others are misguided. That is not a fair statement.
The catholics should reaalise that their beliefs are not fair. Muslims also believe in the holy Spirit.

Jesus believed in Holy Spirit. he was supported (Aided) by the holy spirit. He foretold of the coming of the holy spirit after him. See chapter 16 of John. That meant some one will come after Jesus and he will be supported (guided, aided) by the Holy spirit. But christians misinterpretted the whole meaning of what Jesus told them.

Jesus admitted that he had not completed his mission. He had many things to say. But could not do. he gave hope to his followers of another one to come after him. Moses also did not complete his mission. Moses also told of the coming of another prophet, the like of Moses, after him. The christians are trying to put a blanket on all the true things that were told to them. So they will remain misguided.

We have no harm in leaving the christians in the state in which they are happy. They will have to answer to God for everything said and done in the world of religions. We Muslims need not do anything about the beliefs of christians. There is no compulsion in religions. We are satisfied and happy about whatever is left of the present day bible. We love Jesus and mary. We love all the disciples of Jesus.

But christians demand that the whole world take Jesus as a God Almighty. That will never happen. Niether the Jews, nor the Hiondus or any other faith people will take Jesus as a God. At present it is only Muslims who admit jesus as a decent man of God. But the christians are not happy about it. And themselves (christians) do not say a word of respect for Muhammad. I am sure they are doing wrong.

 

[jakasaki]

Irrelevant posts from catholics are no use. Elwill is asking about the churches which are guided by holy ghost. Nobody is replying. Now some one is trying to derail the discussion by any other means.

It is wrong of the christians (catholics) to say that their church is the only true church or only they have the truth in the whole world. They feel all others are misguided. That is not a fair statement.
The catholics should reaalise that their beliefs are not fair. Muslims also believe in the holy Spirit.

Jesus believed in Holy Spirit. he was supported (Aided) by the holy spirit. He foretold of the coming of the holy spirit after him. See chapter 16 of John. That meant some one will come after Jesus and he will be supported (guided, aided) by the Holy spirit. But christians misinterpretted the whole meaning of what Jesus told them.

Jesus admitted that he had not completed his mission. He had many things to say. But could not do. he gave hope to his followers of another one to come after him. Moses also did not complete his mission. Moses also told of the coming of another prophet, the like of Moses, after him. The christians are trying to put a blanket on all the true things that were told to them. So they will remain misguided.

We have no harm in leaving the christians in the state in which they are happy. They will have to answer to God for everything said and done in the world of religions. We Muslims need not do anything about the beliefs of christians. There is no compulsion in religions. We are satisfied and happy about whatever is left of the present day bible. We love Jesus and mary. We love all the disciples of Jesus.

But christians demand that the whole world take Jesus as a God Almighty. That will never happen. Niether the Jews, nor the Hiondus or any other faith people will take Jesus as a God. At present it is only Muslims who admit jesus as a decent man of God. But the christians are not happy about it. And themselves (christians) do not say a word of respect for Muhammad. I am sure they are doing wrong.

You made this post extra ordinary long which I cannot respond too. Typical muslim…

So, which Planten posted this one???