Jesus was a hippie argument

[Rabbity]

Jesus did say to heal the sick. Was he against universal health care?

 

[JRKH]

I took that verse as meaning take care of all your earthly business so that you can give all that you have to me.

Which would include paying taxes…

I think your understanding is a good one…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Jesus did preach a love-filled sharing frugality. Nowhere does Jesus say that wealth is anything but trouble.

Jesus tells us that we are to embrace poverty. Poverty is not being willing to give if called upon to do so, and it is not mere emotional detachment to created things. Neither is poverty destitution, although Jesus does call a select few to radical destitution.

Poverty is actual, factual frugality, and that is what Jesus taught.

This isn’t a popular position to take, even among Catholics, but I would urge anyone who wants to understand Gospel poverty as it was really preached by Jesus to read “Happy Are You Poor” by Fr. Thomas Dubay.

-Tim-

Good Post.

Although I might have said that Jesus taught about the dangers of wealth…But it says virtually the same thing that you have.

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that “Gospel poverty” is thinking in terms of what one “needs” rather than what one “wants” - in so far as material, earthly things are concerned. This allows one to more fully pray, “Give us this day our daily bread…”, for one is seeking nothing more.

If such a person DOES find themselves with an excess of fund or material goods, this person seeks the best way to use them for God’s Glory - not his own.

At least that is how I see it.

Peace
James

 

[austenbosten]

Jesus did say to heal the sick. Was he against universal health care?

You mean the same UHC that provides free abortions, contraceptions, and leads to overall lower healthcare quality…Yes. Jesus said heal the sick…He didn’t say “sit on your fat [behind] and let the government take over.” He said “Hey schmuck do some good, be like the good Samaritan and help your fellow man.”

Whenever I hear someone say “Why not let the gov’t do it.” all I hear is, “I’m too lazy, selfish and greedy to get off my fat, lazy [behind] and do what the Lord commands me to do, so I’m gonna outsource it to the State.”

Who should be more concerned in following God’s commandments to avoid judgement and eternal damnation…the man or the State?

Be a mensch and donate your time to caring for the poor. Don’t hand off social responsibilities to the State, look what good it did to Rome and Byzantium…

Latin is a dead language,
As dead as dead can be.
First it killed the Romans,
And now it’s killing me!

They don’t exist anymore because their welfare state bankrupted them.

 

[zz912]

Im a Democrat and I go to church , and pray the rosary everyday

Not according to the original poster that we are deconstructing. That was my point. By singling out Republicans, the poster is indirectly stating that Democrats don’t go to church. I’m sure this would be news to yourself and many other Democrats.

 

[Michael0993]

So, thought I’d be the first to say… um Jesus didn’t have long hair. I mean, he was a middle eastern Jew, he most likely had shortish hair, possible curly. Though he would have a beard, the entire white with long hair is kinda an artists rendition.

Correct me if i’m wrong!

blog.adw.org/2010/03/what-did-jesus-look-like/

check out the picture’s!!!

 

[benjohnson]

My retort for the poster:

Jesus commands us to help the poor.

Jesus didn’t command us to setup a massive bureaucratic government with confiscatory tax policies, that then uses those proceeds to fund political benefactors with the remaining small amount used to help the poor.

 

[Rabbity]

Okay, just wondered. In many other countries health care is considered a basic human right and their citizens invest in universal health care to make sure everyone has access to affordable and good quality care and no one is left to die in the street or go hopelessly broke due to medical bankruptcies.

The Pope himself said it was the moral responsibility of each nation to provide health care for all citizens regardless of their social and economic status or ability to pay.

Just wondered what Jesus would think of that.

Thanks for your answer, Ben (and others).

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

My retort for the poster:

Jesus commands us to help the poor.

Jesus didn’t command us to setup a massive bureaucratic government with confiscatory tax policies, that then uses those proceeds to fund political benefactors with the remaining small amount used to help the poor.

How come atheists are more likely to be politically left-wing? Is that in the contract you have to sign when becoming atheist?

 

[patrick457]

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s is usually the verse seen as telling people to pay taxes…

Peace
James

Actually the sense of the “render unto Caesar” reply is not so much about the taxes (although the question was) but a reiteration of the idea that Yhwh is the true King who rules the land, not Caesar. Caesar is, at best, just some sort of puppet on strings, who only has power because God allows him to have it. Since, even the Roman emperor is merely but a small fish when compared to Yhwh, he can have his coin back: of more paramount importance is “the things that are God’s” and the interests of His kingdom, which is to be done “in earth as it is in heaven.”

Ironically, Jesus is presented before Pilate as fomenting rebellion through tax evasion.

Then the whole company of them arose and brought him before Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king.”

 

[JRKH]

Actually the sense of the “render unto Caesar” reply is not so much about the taxes (although the question was) but a reiteration of the idea that Yhwh is the true King who rules the land, not Caesar. Caesar is, at best, just some sort of puppet on strings, who only has power because God allows him to have it. Since, even the Roman emperor is merely but a small fish when compared to Yhwh, he can have his coin back: of more paramount importance is “the things that are God’s” and the interests of His kingdom, which is to be done “in earth as it is in heaven.”

Ironically, Jesus is presented before Pilate as fomenting rebellion through tax evasion.

Then the whole company of them arose and brought him before Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king.”

I do not disagree with this.
Indeed, when Jesus gave answers to questions he often did so in most surprising ways that forced or caused people to really think. So this single answer to the question about taxes has a number of implications.
Primary among these implications is a cleaving apart of the temporal and spiritual. The paying of the tax, even to an occupying, pagan government had no bearing on ones standing before God.
Jesus was conveying that this whole “tax” thing was but a small thing compared to matters of spirit and salvation and that those listening need to bear this in mind and not get sidetracked by details and matters (such as a tax revolt) that would only inflame their enemies and serve no good purpose.
Thus - besides all various other implications of His answer, Jesus did, in fact, tell them to pay the tax. Just not in so many words…

I love how different people pull different aspects out of something as simple as this one response from our Lord.

Peace
James

 

[TimothyH]

Good Post.

Although I might have said that Jesus taught about the dangers of wealth…But it says virtually the same thing that you have.

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that “Gospel poverty” is thinking in terms of what one “needs” rather than what one “wants” - in so far as material, earthly things are concerned. This allows one to more fully pray, “Give us this day our daily bread…”, for one is seeking nothing more.

If such a person DOES find themselves with an excess of fund or material goods, this person seeks the best way to use them for God’s Glory - not his own.

At least that is how I see it.

Peace
James

Not thinking and seeking, but doing.

Anyway, I know real hippies, people who were raised on a commune and taught to raise crops in kindergarden and then taught to read when they were in second grade. They all have degrees in political science and are all application developers or Cisco certified computer guys, and they are all angry at the world, at the government, at Rail Road companies or Dick Cheney or one thing or another.

They all think it is a sin to bring children into a world where there is war and suffering, and it shows the lack of hope and the level of dispair which permeates their lives.

And even though they signed the covenants when they moved into the neigborhood, they flaunt the HOA rules against raising livestock in the subdivision and have llama’s and chickens in the backyard. Seriously, my friend bought a llama and got a letter from the HOA. I went over his house and for dinner (organic lasagna ) and looked out the window and was like, “Eric, is that a llama in your backyard?” and he was like, “Yea, frick’n frack’n HOA is so stupid, etc.”

I tell ya what, I don’t worship no hippy. My savoir is a king.

-Tim-

 

[snarflemike]

How come atheists are more likely to be politically left-wing? Is that in the contract you have to sign when becoming atheist?

Since they have no hope of perfection in the next life, they strive for perfection through compulsion in this life. And since we are a fallen race, the results will always fail, and often lead to Gulag and Einsatzgruppen.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Since they have no hope of perfection in the next life, they strive for perfection through compulsion in this life. And since we are a fallen race, the results will always fail, and often lead to Gulag and Einsatzgruppen.

As if that’s going to work
Besides, perfection through force and compulsion is an imperfection in itself.

 

[exnihilo]

As others said Jesus is not someone you can really classify. And His message is not simple. The problem is people do not like complexity. So they try to classify Jesus and reduce His message.

Regarding the hippie, socialist argument I’d point out then when Jesus says he is the good shepherd he points out that He is not the hired hand. The hired hand does not care about what he is in charge of because he doesn’t own it.

1 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep.

12 But the hireling, and he that is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and flieth: and the wolf catcheth, and scattereth the sheep:

13 And the hireling flieth, because he is a hireling: and he hath no care for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine, and mine know me.

 

[snarflemike]

As if that’s going to work
Besides, perfection through force and compulsion is an imperfection in itself.

Yes, quite right, but when your worldview is limited as the atheist worldview must be, and you’re seeking radical change, that’s all you’ve got to work with.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Yes, quite right, but when your worldview is limited as the atheist worldview must be, and you’re seeking radical change, that’s all you’ve got to work with.

Meh, if I’d have that worldview I’d rather try to enjoy everything to the fullest and not bother with change at all. But to each his own.

 

[kevinerose]

I do not disagree with this.
Indeed, when Jesus gave answers to questions he often did so in most surprising ways that forced or caused people to really think. So this single answer to the question about taxes has a number of implications.
Primary among these implications is a cleaving apart of the temporal and spiritual. The paying of the tax, even to an occupying, pagan government had no bearing on ones standing before God.
Jesus was conveying that this whole “tax” thing was but a small thing compared to matters of spirit and salvation and that those listening need to bear this in mind and not get sidetracked by details and matters (such as a tax revolt) that would only inflame their enemies and serve no good purpose.
Thus - besides all various other implications of His answer, Jesus did, in fact, tell them to pay the tax. Just not in so many words…

I love how different people pull different aspects out of something as simple as this one response from our Lord.

Peace
James

Speaking of making a simple thing complex…

Your thinking is a bit lacking since you forget in your reasoning that Jesus = God. He said give to God what is God’s and to Caesar what is Caesars. The simple fact of the matter is that EVERYTHING is God’s. If Caesar was to get what was Caesar’s, well then he would get nothing.

Everything is God’s. You belong to God. Anything that is material belongs to God.
What the bible teaches, is that you provide what may be required of your government or master in order that you are not punished by them or demeaned by them. This is of course does not include times when your government is oppressing you, enslaving you, torchering you, or doing other evils such as trying to take away your human rights that were bestowed upon you by God himself.