Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

[freedomwriter]

No there isn’t. I already pointed out the misinterpretation of Protestants about their erroneous belief that Mary had other sons and daughters.

They were believers and had expecttions of that Jesus is the promised Messiah. They hide because they didn’t want to ridiculed by the religious authorities of the Pharisees and they were afraid. You claimed that they were not believers is a very illogical statement. Do you mean, that if brother of Jesus do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, you as a Jew lost all rights to care for the elderly (in this case Blessed Virgin Mary)? Jesus would be going against his own commandments. It is the very fact that during the time, Jesus lived, he blasted the Pharisees and the Sadducee for the sin of hypocrisy. They would tell Jews to do this, but they themselves do not practice it.

It is Jewish custom that sons and daughters have a responsibility to take care of their parents when they are old. Jesus gave John his mother, Mary because He had no other siblings. Like I said before, in the Gospel of Luke, when Jesus was 12 yrs old, Mary and Joseph, only found Jesus in the Temple. There were no other siblings. Luke’s Gospel show kinsmen which means cousins.

That is not a misinterpretation Manny. I am just quoting God’s Word. I have already given you the Greek Word for brothers. Jesus having cousins instead of brothers in these passages are just a Catholic tradition. Jn 7:5 says “For even His Brothers did not believe in Him” I guess the Apostle John meant cousins
I know what the Jewish custom was why do you think Jesus had John take care of his mother. Because his brothers did NOT believe in Him Jn 7:5 Silly man

 

[Mannyfit75]

That is not a misinterpretation Manny. I am just quoting God’s Word. I have already given you the Greek Word for brothers. Jesus having cousins instead of brothers in these passages are just a Catholic tradition. Jn 7:5 says “For even His Brothers did not believe in Him” I guess the Apostle John meant cousins

You have read the entire context of the page in John 7:5. The Gospel was written in Greek and there is no Hebrew or Aramaic word for cousins. So when they wrote the Gospel, the word brothers denotes, cousins or kinsmen.

I know what the Jewish custom was why do you think Jesus had John take care of his mother. Because his brothers did NOT believe in Him Jn 7:5 Silly man

That Gospel of John 7:5 does not explain why Jesus gave John his mother. Jesus said to his mother, “Woman behold you son.” and to the beloved Disciple, “Behold, your mother.” Jesus did not say, “Since my brothers did not believe I am going to give mother to you, John.” You completely taken the passage out of context. John 7:5 discusses a different topic in John 19:26-27.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Why is it silly to say he had a previous wife? You don’t even know how old he was.

 

[freedomwriter]

You have read the entire context of the page in John 7:5. The Gospel was written in Greek and there is no Hebrew or Aramaic word for cousins. So when they wrote the Gospel, the word brothers denotes, cousins or kinsmen.

That Gospel of John 7:5 does not explain why Jesus gave John his mother. Jesus said to his mother, “Woman behold you son.” and to the beloved Disciple, “Behold, your mother.” Jesus did not say, “Since my brothers did not believe I am going to give mother to you, John.” You completely taken the passage out of context. John 7:5 discusses a different topic in John 19:26-27.

I have already told you the greek word for brothers is adelphos meaning literal blood brothers. You just told me the jewish custom of how the children were to take care of their parents. As the oldest Jesus wanted to leave his mother in good spiritual care. That is why he left mary to john. No way have i taken jn 7:5 out of context. Thanks those two verses fit perfectly to what i have been telling you.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Don_Hepler:
no comment

 

[Mannyfit75]

I have already told you the greek word for brothers is adelphos meaning literal blood brothers. You just told me the jewish custom of how the children were to take care of their parents. As the oldest Jesus wanted to leave his mother in good spiritual care. That is why he left mary to john. No way have i taken jn 7:5 out of context. Thanks those two verses fit perfectly to what i have been telling you.

That is your interpretation which have have nothing to do as to why Jesus gave Mary to John. You just based it on your opinions, and I know what adelphos mean. In the Gospel it can be used to denotes kinsmen or cousins.

 

[Janet1983]

That is not a misinterpretation Manny. I am just quoting God’s Word. I have already given you the Greek Word for brothers. Jesus having cousins instead of brothers in these passages are just a Catholic tradition. Jn 7:5 says “For even His Brothers did not believe in Him” I guess the Apostle John meant cousins
I know what the Jewish custom was why do you think Jesus had John take care of his mother. Because his brothers did NOT believe in Him Jn 7:5 Silly man

Oh, don’t even bother. He is not going to listen to you. I’ve been telling him the same things over and over again… problem 1 - solution 1 - problem 2 - solution 2 - problem 3 - solution 3 - problem 1…

 

[Mannyfit75]

Oh, don’t even bother. He is not going to listen to you. I’ve been telling him the same things over and over again… problem 1 - solution 1 - problem 2 - solution 2 - problem 3 - solution 3 - problem 1…

His interpretation and your interpretation is inconsistent with the Scripture, and the Traditions of the Church. The ECF affirmed that Mary remain a Virgin. Even the Protestant Fathers believe she is Ever-Virgin.

However, that change since the later Protestants start to interpret the Bible literally, and say she Mary had relations with Joseph and had other children. So you mean to tell me that the Early Christians got it all wrong? Who themselves were taught by the Apostles?

Why should I believe you that your interpretation of the Bible is correct? Next time, you’ll tell me that the earth is not 13 billion years old and that it is 6,000 or 4,000 yrs old and claimed that man lived with Dinosaurs, and that T-rex was a vegetarian before the fall of mankind.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

I may have to elaborate on this later but I’ll try to catologue some more scriptural inferences that I might have sub-consciously referenced in my assumption that Joseph and Mary were not celibate. I’m going to brain-storm a bit here: 1) Abraham was old when Isaac was conceived so I figured Joseph’s age was irrelevant, 2) David, Joseph’s ancestor, was an adulterer, and I often viewed Christ’s entry into Joseph’s life as sort of a correction inducing, grace bringing, trial for the often troubled lineage of Davidic kings. Sort of like a guided exercise in the rewards of patience and obedience. 3) Somewhere in the Old Testament I must have remembered something about, ‘…after God’s house is built then there will be a returning and rebuilding of David’s ruined house…’ and I figured after Christ was born Joseph was then allowed to build up his own seed 4) there was some mention in the OT of people having unrestrained sexual desires and being like horses that nayed at their neighbors wives. I kind of related this to David’s sin and correlated some genetic predisposition into Joseph and felt God was not asking Joseph to do something that was too difficult for him 5) Somehow I may have psycho-analysed Christ’s address to his mother at the wedding at Cana as being indicative of some sort of alienation in their relationship perhaps due to favoritism, 6) I correlated Uriah with Abel and David with Cain at one time or another, and was confused as to why Christ was considered the Son of David and understood how then, especially Peter, had difficulty understanding that Christ would be crucified— something that would have made Him more like Uriah and less like David, at least, in one sense. 7) I generally concluded that Christ gave his mother to John and vice versa because he was perhaps the one most trusted by Him and the act was, not only a protective gesture toward His mother, but also a recognition of John’s ability to be equal to his Master.

I’ll try to clarify this more later.

 

[Don_Hepler]

I thought you did great in explaining your understanding of lineage. and I see you still are a little apprehensive toward the John and Mary looking forward to your final caption

 

[Don_Hepler]

His interpretation and your interpretation is inconsistent with the Scripture, and the Traditions of the Church. The ECF affirmed that Mary remain a Virgin. Even the Protestant Fathers believe she is Ever-Virgin.

However, that change since the later Protestants start to interpret the Bible literally, and say she Mary had relations with Joseph and had other children. So you mean to tell me that the Early Christians got it all wrong? Who themselves were taught by the Apostles?

Why should I believe you that your interpretation of the Bible is correct? Next time, you’ll tell me that the earth is not 13 billion years old and that it is 6,000 or 4,000 yrs old and claimed that man lived with Dinosaurs, and that T-rex was a vegetarian before the fall of mankind.

where do you get that Mary was a virgin all her life. Explain to me
Luke 1: 31 and, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: ( meaning God being the Highest or Jesus being the SON of the Highest) and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33. And he shall reighn over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be seeing I know not a man?( which means she knew how becoming pregnant worked… there seems to be only one way to have children so the question, was logical So the angel explains)
35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and (meaning something else was going to happen) the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee…(I think she lost her virginity when the Highest over shadow her. therefore she became with child or she was impregnated the natural way, she conceived from God the Highest. Sorry folks no more virgin Mary, that is a good interpretation. I know this doesn’t work for you… but it does for me… God is the Father of Jesus, The reason Jesus was perfect is because the seed of the Highest (GOD) was a perfect seed. Therefore Jesus was not from the sins of his forefathers. And coming from a perfect Father (God) He had power over death, coming from a mortal mother and a immortal father. Therefore he could take upon him the sins of the world and not die because of the pain. Where we would parish because of our sins. So the Atonement became real to us and If we do not except Jesus and what he did for us, because we could do it for ourselves, it became a infinite atonement. And if we do not except we will suffer even as he did for our sins.

 

[Louie1983]

where do you get that Mary was a virgin all her life. Explain to me
Luke 1: 31 and, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: ( meaning God being the Highest or Jesus being the SON of the Highest) and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33. And he shall reighn over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be seeing I know not a man?( which means she knew how becoming pregnant worked… there seems to be only one way to have children so the question, was logical So the angel explains)
35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and (meaning something else was going to happen) the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee]…(I think she lost her virginity when the Highest over shadow her. therefore she became with child or she was impregnated the natural way, she conceived from God the Highest. Sorry folks no more virgin Mary, that is a good interpretation. I know this doesn’t work for you… but it does for me…

God is the Father of Jesus, The reason Jesus was perfect is because the seed of the Highest (GOD) was a perfect seed. Therefore Jesus was not from the sins of his forefathers. And coming from a perfect Father (God) He had power over death, coming from a mortal mother and a immortal father. Therefore he could take upon him the sins of the world and not die because of the pain. Where we would parish because of our sins. So the Atonement became real to us and If we do not except Jesus and what he did for us, because we could do it for ourselves, it became a infinite atonement. And if we do not except we will suffer even as he did for our sins.

That is the most ridiculous and inaccurate statement i have ever seen!

She was impregnated by the holy spirit but not in the way humans do it naturally! The holy spirit planted the seed in her womb so she could remain ever virgin! To remain a virgin is to never have intercourse! it has nothing to do with pregnancy in this case! That was the miraclulous thing about it, she remained a virgin but still had a child!

Lost her virginuty when the holy spirit overcame her…give me a break!

 

[Janet1983]

Next time, you’ll tell me that the earth is not 13 billion years old and that it is 6,000 or 4,000 yrs old and claimed that man lived with Dinosaurs, and that T-rex was a vegetarian before the fall of mankind.

Well I could do that… would go off-topic though and highly scientific so I will absolutely not refer to this in this thread… start a new one if you wish…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Giving birth to the Son of Man is a tough act to follow. And the virtue of virginity was a wonderful charism given to the BVM by God Himself. Jesus speaks of the virtue of virginity and chastity and I fail to see why Mary would feel the need to have more? Also, wouldn’t we see a blood sibling of Christ Almighty as being someone highly respected in the Early Church enough worth mentioning? Yet we never hear about Jesus’ siblings at all? I think it would be worth mentioning?

Also, I wonder why doubters have the drive, the need to put Mary on such a typical human plane? They almost hate the fact that she was able to live with Joseph without begetting more children? Why is it so important to try and debunk Mary and make her so typical? We have every reason to believe she was as the Orthodox and Catholics believe her to be and practically no reason common-sensically or historically to believe she was some typical lady who had a big family after Jesus? I just wonder why we feel the need to minimize her??

 

[Louie1983]

Giving birth to the Son of Man is a tough act to follow. And the virtue of virginity was a wonderful charism given to the BVM by God Himself. Jesus speaks of the virtue of virginity and chastity and I fail to see why Mary would feel the need to have more? Also, wouldn’t we see a blood sibling of Christ Almighty as being someone highly respected in the Early Church enough worth mentioning? Yet we never hear about Jesus’ siblings at all? I think it would be worth mentioning?

Also, I wonder why doubters have the drive, the need to put Mary on such a typical human plane? They almost hate the fact that she was able to live with Joseph without begetting more children? Why is it so important to try and debunk Mary and make her so typical? We have every reason to believe she was as the Orthodox and Catholics believe her to be and practically no reason common-sensically or historically to believe she was some typical lady who had a big family after Jesus? I just wonder why we feel the need to minimize her??

I ask myself those very same questions everyday gurneyhalleck1 my brother! It saddens me of all the grace and love they are missing out on if they call our heavenly mother for intercession! She is another gift that god has given mankind yet (with god) she is continously ignired and neglected!

 

[nmc1a0]

I have no problem with the idea of Mary’s perpetual virginity. I think that it is a wonderful concept and I must believe that as an RC. I vowed to accept all the Church’s teacing as truth when I joined the Church.

But I guess I don’t understand why it is so vital that it be believed. Had she had children after Jesus, that would not have been sinful, would it? It’s not a deal-breaker to believe it or not believe it, is it?

 

[Louie1983]

I have no problem with the idea of Mary’s perpetual virginity. I think that it is a wonderful concept and I must believe that as an RC. I vowed to accept all the Church’s teacing as truth when I joined the Church.

But I guess I don’t understand why it is so vital that it be believed. Had she had children after Jesus, that would not have been sinful, would it? It’s not a deal-breaker to believe it or not believe it, is it?

No it wouldn’t have been sinful but if God intends for something to be done a certain way then that’s the way it should be done and kept! God intended for Mary to give birth to his son as a virgin and to remain a virgin, the church led by the holy spirit teaches that mary was and remained a virgin all her life. We should not question it then. (not saying you are, but there are some that do).

 

[Janet1983]

I have no problem with the idea of Mary’s perpetual virginity. I think that it is a wonderful concept and I must believe that as an RC. I vowed to accept all the Church’s teacing as truth when I joined the Church.

But I guess I don’t understand why it is so vital that it be believed. Had she had children after Jesus, that would not have been sinful, would it? It’s not a deal-breaker to believe it or not believe it, is it?

Good question… there are other RC saints that had children…
Emmelia of Caesarea (mother of Basil the Great),
Monica (mother of Augustine of Hippo) just to name some…

 

[Louie1983]

Good question… there are other RC saints that had children…
Emmelia of Caesarea (mother of Basil the Great),
Monica (mother of Augustine of Hippo) just to name some…

Hi Janet1983,

There is a big difference between Mary the Mother of God and the saints. Our lady is elevated as the highest creature in heaven, she is the queen of heaven and earth and was sinless. The saints are not sinless.

Mary had a specific role to bring Christ into the world and raise him with st joseph. The saints were there to preach and spread the gospel and are living examples of how to live a life devoted to God.

God bless.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

…I also probably felt that because Joseph had initially rejected marrying Mary because she had become pregnant, and the angel had to inform him that it was not the product of adultery, that Joseph had already intended to marry Mary for the sake of having children. And then Christ’s words that He did not come to take anything away form us but to give us life to the full came to mind and I figured Christ wouldn’t have wanted to interfere in Joseph’s marriage more than necessary. Also, God speaks of a covenant with David a lot in the Old Testament and it would have been in God and Christ’s interests to honor that covenant and to designate Joseph as the bearer of the paternal lineage of David (which would be separate from David’s Lord, which is to say-- the Christ). So Joseph was undergoing divine correction, not from Assyria or Babylon, but from a personal relationship with God’s Son. Learning to work for his wife instead of steal and/or kill for it as his ancestor David had. Remember Christ said He puts the father against the son and the son against the father. All Joseph’s ancestors sins were before God and also their service to Him must have inspired Joseph as well. And I also figured that if Joseph and Mary had children that maybe only some of them would believe and some of them not even as the prior Davidic lineage suggests that some were wicked and some were righteous. From what I understand Mary was a Levite and David trespassed against the laws of Moses. Many times Moses is considered an unparalled prophet in the Old Testament. Joseph, who had to have an angel speak to him in a dream, is also bearing witness to the fact that he himself is not a prophet like Moses that God could speak with “as a friend.”
So these are some more of the thoughts that occupy my mind now and before. Again, I am pressed for time, and can only explain so much.
It is important to understand that my goal is not rebellion.
In the interest of comradery and clarification I will share a few details of my life: I was baptized Catholic as a child. While I was growing up I suffered some trauma and believed I saw the Christ. As many of my peers and providers were not openly Christian and some were dictating that Christ was not the Christ I felt unwelcome and unsure and I remained rather ignorant of Church and the Bible. They were heavily discouraged in my life. I finally ventured to read the Bible and have done so a few times as I am not the best at comprehending things always. Also, I did not speak to many people about my beliefs or attend church much or inquire much about churches or religions, but I did a little, trying to gauge my understanding of the scriptures with what were the main diferences between religions. And I do not know much about the differing teachings of the differing faiths, only the basics, if that. I apologize if I have offended some people out of what may have been considered an unsensitive approach to this issue.