Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

[1beleevr]

arandur:It seems to me that it would have been a lot easier, when writing the Bible; to have written: Mary and Joseph never married, they never had sexual relations, Joseph died, sometime after Jesus’s twelfth birthday, brothers means cousins…etc. It would have avoided a lot of confusion and debate, or speculation. You know, like whether Jesus was talking about Himself, when He said,"Upon this Rock, I will build MY Church…"But then, there may not have been a need for CAF

 

[Arandur]

arandur:It seems to me that it would have been a lot easier, when writing the Bible; to have written: Mary and Joseph never married, they never had sexual relations, Joseph died, sometime after Jesus’s twelfth birthday, brothers means cousins…etc. It would have avoided a lot of confusion and debate, or speculation. You know, like whether Jesus was talking about Himself, when He said,"Upon this Rock, I will build MY Church…"But then, there may not have been a need for CAF

A lot of things might be made clearer in the Bible, but you may as well wish that Jesus come down to have a personal meeting with you face to face and explain everything. Ever think there’s a reason some issues are difficult? Or that the NT is only a few hundred pages instead of a few million?

The Inspired authors tried to focus as much as possible on a record of Jesus’s ministry and information about Him and His saving message. Details about Mary and Joseph were kept as part of Tradition, the economy of space in their writing being devoted to Jesus.

 

[1beleevr]

arandur: I am well aware of the brevity of the NT, versus the OT, and agree that it is all about Jesus. The Advocate,Comforter, aka Holy Spirit was sent to reveal things to us in Spirit and in Truth; and if we are open to His teachings, He will help us to understand what we read. But, some of us read the Bible as it exists today, and believe that Mary and Joseph did enjoy a marriage relationship; whether or not sex was included, and the POSSIBILITY of other children. We can only assume that Joseph either died or left Mary between Jesus’s twelfth birthday(the last time Joseph is mentioned) and the crucifixion, as there is no reference to him during Jesus’s ministry period. And I am sad to say, that I would be a “cafeteria catholic,” something I know true catholics disdain! God Bless You!

 

[tweetymom]

arandur: I am well aware of the brevity of the NT, versus the OT, and agree that it is all about Jesus. The Advocate,Comforter, aka Holy Spirit was sent to reveal things to us in Spirit and in Truth; and if we are open to His teachings, He will help us to understand what we read. But, some of us read the Bible as it exists today, and believe that Mary and Joseph did enjoy a marriage relationship; whether or not sex was included, and the POSSIBILITY of other children. We can only assume that Joseph either died or left Mary between Jesus’s twelfth birthday(the last time Joseph is mentioned) and the crucifixion, as there is no reference to him during Jesus’s ministry period. And I am sad to say, that I would be a “cafeteria catholic,” something I know true catholics disdain! God Bless You!

I am not stupid and only ask this for a question only. How does anyone know if the traditions are all true? Anymore than the Bible? 1beleevr its not being a cafetreia Catholic any more than some question the Bible. Its okay to question and I believe Jesus wants use too. Now with that statement I will get bashed instead of you. God Bless you on your journey with Christ and may you always feel His love and mine

 

[1beleevr]

tweetymom: As always, your honesty and openness, are refreshing! And I too woner which versions are true, and which are not. I only said that I would be a “cafeteria catholic,” because arandur suggested that perhaps I should come to the one and only church, that Christ founded. Knowing that there are too many things to which I could not adhere, I would therefore be considered a “cafeteria catholic.”(i.e. confessing to a priest, calling the pope Holy Father, etc). And I hope you don’t get "persecuted for believing what you do. Have you read that book,“The Shack?”

 

[tweetymom]

tweetymom: As always, your honesty and openness, are refreshing! And I too woner which versions are true, and which are not. I only said that I would be a “cafeteria catholic,” because arandur suggested that perhaps I should come to the one and only church, that Christ founded. Knowing that there are too many things to which I could not adhere, I would therefore be considered a “cafeteria catholic.”(i.e. confessing to a priest, calling the pope Holy Father, etc). And I hope you don’t get "persecuted for believing what you do. Have you read that book,“The Shack?”

Perhaps people would call me a Cafeteria Catholic because I hold what the Bible says and always will. There are a lot of things I doon’t adhere to but remain a Catholic. I see my self as a Bible believing Christian who goes to Catholic Church for various reasons. Oh I have only been persecuted on CAF not anywhere else. But you know Christ said we would be persecuted for our belief, so I count it a blessing not an insult.And when we all see Jesus and He holds our hand all these differences will go out the window. I’ve benn calles all sort of things and told I was going to hell here, but it doesn’t matter cause I love Jesus and all who love our Lord in how ever way that they do. God Bless and peace

 

[Arandur]

Nobody is persecuting anyone here. My, aren’t we defensive.

1be, I urged you to come home to the Universal Church, yes, because it is home for all mankind. I did not mean you should do so without accepting God’s teaching through it. That would be fake and wrong. To “come home” means to embrace all of God’s essential teachings. I wasn’t suggesting you become Catholic without believing. The journey home is a long one for many people, requiring much prayer, contemplation, study, and action.

Tweety, Catholics distinguish between "small ‘t’ and big ‘T’ " tradition; Tradition that conveys essential truths and has been verified by the Holy Spirit through the Magisterium is known truth. To question it is to question God. Those traditions that are more custom, local, or legend, that have less bearing on salvation and thus have not been verified, are held in respect but left to individual belief–much like private revelation or diocesan Saints/heroes.

Also, tweety, why would you specify that you are “Bible-believing” as if it were a qualifier to being Catholic? All Catholics are Bible-believing. It is definitional.

 

[1beleevr]

tweetymom: It does seem a bit odd that you would say that you have felt persecution from your own church, when the natural inclination would be to believe that your church would lift you up and build you up I was raised in a Southern Baptist church up until I joined the military. I then began to wander, questioning, wondering, asking “what is this Christian life all about?” I have had trials and tribulations(John 16:33), but by the incredible grace and mercy of OUR awesome God, I have been delivered from the clutches of Satan, and those who sought to destroy me. People can be very evil, and manipulative, and we need to be attentive to Jesus, and His Holy Spirit, in order to maintain some semblance of order in our lives! None of is perfect, but some day, as you point out, we will all be with our Saviour, andyou are right, everything that we squabbled over on this earth will disappear. Ther will be no more religious persecution, or division:thumbsup: We will all be saints together, daily (endlessly) worshipping and praising our Lord! And besides, what we face on earth, pales in comparison to what the apostles faced, and ultimately died for! So onward we go, growing closer each day to the prize before us!

 

[1beleevr]

arandur: I know what you meant when you made the offer to join the catholic church I used the term “cafeteria catholic”, because I to this day, cannot embrace and accept many of the traditions, and doctrines which the church claims to be God ordained or directed I still believe that what 1John 1:9 says, applies to us as Christians, and even nonbelievers, that “if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us of all righteousness.” Thus, you eliminate the need to visit a priest on a weekly basis Next; there is only ONE Holy Father, and His Name is God, the Almighty, Yahweh, Elohim! Mary was a very, very important part of the salvation plan, although, exalting her, or believing in her, asking her to intercede for you, saying “hail Marys”, or reciting the rosary will not get you the security of eternal life. But I do understand the catholic love for Mary, and the need/desire to lift her up to a position of near royalty. And I really enjoy contemporary Christian music, along with the old, traditional hymns and other worship music. I enjoy the freedom of wearing shorts, Levi’s or Dockers to church, as it is not the outside which is important, but the inside. Does the catholic church offer street ministry programs, and hospital/nursing home programs where you go and sing with them, love on them and share God’s message of hope? So, you see, arandur; even if I believed everything that the apostles supposedly passed down, I would still be at odds with the church on other issues, hence the “cafeteria catholic” handle:thumbsup: I really hope that it is not true, that people in the cc have told tweetymom that she will go to Hell for whatever reason That would be tantamount to playing God!

 

[1beleevr]

arandur: That should read, “forgive us of all unrighteousness, or wickedness!” Oops!

 

[SonofMonica]

arandur: I know what you meant when you made the offer to join the catholic church I used the term “cafeteria catholic”, because I to this day, cannot embrace and accept many of the traditions, and doctrines which the church claims to be God ordained or directed I still believe that what 1John 1:9 says, applies to us as Christians, and even nonbelievers, that “if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us of all righteousness.” Thus, you eliminate the need to visit a priest on a weekly basis Next; there is only ONE Holy Father, and His Name is God, the Almighty, Yahweh, Elohim! Mary was a very, very important part of the salvation plan, although, exalting her, or believing in her, asking her to intercede for you, saying “hail Marys”, or reciting the rosary will not get you the security of eternal life. But I do understand the catholic love for Mary, and the need/desire to lift her up to a position of near royalty. And I really enjoy contemporary Christian music, along with the old, traditional hymns and other worship music. I enjoy the freedom of wearing shorts, Levi’s or Dockers to church, as it is not the outside which is important, but the inside. Does the catholic church offer street ministry programs, and hospital/nursing home programs where you go and sing with them, love on them and share God’s message of hope? So, you see, arandur; even if I believed everything that the apostles supposedly passed down, I would still be at odds with the church on other issues, hence the “cafeteria catholic” handle:thumbsup: I really hope that it is not true, that people in the cc have told tweetymom that she will go to Hell for whatever reason That would be tantamount to playing God!

You just added words to 1 John 1:9, particularly the words “to Him,” in order to make your point. You just lost all credibility with me. Sorry.

But yes, the Catholic Church is the world’s largest charitable organization, and gives more money to the poor than any other entity apart from the United States of America. By the way, one third of all hospitals in America are Catholic.

 

[tweetymom]

Not all Catholics believe 100% in the Bible and I do thats why. No 1believr I have noy been perscuted by my personal church only here at CAF, Believe me I have gotten angry and responded that way and am deeply sorry that I did that but know that I am forgiven
So I was told that I was going to hell for my belief not on this thread or my Church but on some threads. And big T or little t matters not a whole lot I know Jesus and I don’t need tradition to tell me what I should believe or not. If you are ok with it it causes me not one problem as long as you love Jesus. So I did not say I was perscuted by any one on this thread. Also am very glad the CC supports charities and am sure that most Churches do too. I know a few people who get so hung up on little t or big T that they forget about what being a Christian is my observation:shrug:

 

[1beleevr]

sonofmonica: Then I guess I am in a better position than I thought; as you had little or no credibility from me And I am aware that certain Bible translations, say"unto Him", and some don’t! The King James version says, “if we confess our sins,He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” I believe that the He referred to here is God; so that through Christ, we confess our sins to God, and are forgiven Presto, changeo, no priest NECESSARY! And I am well aware that the catholic church donates a lot of money to charitable causes, and has hospitals around the world. What I wonder, is this: do “common catholics”, such as yourself, on a regular basis go out into communities, “armed” with the Word of God, perhaps some food packs, and the heart of aservant(Mark 10:45), and witness to and share with both believers and nonbelievers, about the wonderful promises of hope, salvation and eternal life; praying with and for those less fortunate? Do catholics like yourself, and others, heed the call of Jesus to serve others, to love others, as you love yourself? Do you go to nursing homes, prisons, and other locations to encourage, and lift the spirits of those whom life has beaten down? Finally,thank you for pointing out my faux pas, regarding 1John 1:9. I guess the bottom line is that regardless if I inadvertently added words or not, the message is, that God forgives, man does not

 

[1beleevr]

tweetymom: You have such a tender heart, and I am sorry if I misunderstood and thought that your church had persecuted you It is hard to believe that any human being, feels that they have the authority to tell another human being that they are going to Hell, or are not savedThis is a realm reserved for God alone! We can share with others, as my wife and I did with Uncle Rick this past weekend, that if you do not come to know the Lord, believe that He was born of a virgin, died on the Cross for your sins, was resurrected, on the third day, and confess your sins to Him, be baptized(I prefer full immersion) in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, then you have chosen eternal separation from God, or Hell! But we cannot and do not know what is in a man’s heart; only God does! God does not send anyone to Hell, it is a choice that we make. And I love hearing testimonies from people who have learned the joys of serving our Lord! Their eyes sparkle and shine, often teary as they relate their experiences of witnessing to someone about the wonders and love of Christ! And I respect those who give or offer help to the oppressed, hungry, lonely, and forgotten(Matthew 25:31-40)

 

[tweetymom]

Thank you 1belevr I have misunderstood a lot of things in my lifetime lol Oh by the way ichecked the Catholic Bible and in 1JN 1:9 it says If we acknowledge our sins, He is and faithful and just and will forgive :thumbsupur sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing. Quote

 

[1beleevr]

tweetymom: I think misunderstanding, or reading things into what people say or write, is a human condition! The key, is to be big enough to admit your mistake, and ask for forgiveness! I currently worship(actually I worship wherever the Spirit moves me to) at a Christ-centered, Bible-based, nondenominational church! Some may see the word nondenominational, and assume tha something is missing; but believe me, He is a HUGE part of our fellowship. We believe in getting involved in ministries right here in our community, outreaches, food drives, door-to-door witnessing, visiting nursing homes, and going out and actually serving food to the homeless! God led me out of a dark place to a deeper ministry life, and I will never be able to thank Him, for how He continues to grow me and shape me(Phillipians 1:6).And, although to some, I come across as abrasive or disrespectful, I have nothing but love and respect for Christians and nonChristians, regardless of denomination or faith.I do ask a lot of why questions, when it comes to what others believe, purely out of curiosity, not disrespect Like when I asked the Mormon, how he knew that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus together in a vision, I want to know why youbelieve that! Like when my catholic co-worker asked me why I don’t wear a cross with a corpus(body) on it, or why I don’t believe in going to confession weekly; I replied:1) Jesus is not on the Cross anymore, He was taken down, buried, and was resurrected.2)I, personally do not feel the NEED to confess my sins to a complete stranger, whom I may not trust, telling my sins to! That is the first time, I have sen that scripture in that context, but it still means the same to me: If I confess my sins(to God), HE is faithful and just to forgive me of my sins and cleanse me of all unrighteousness." So that is different than what the King James version says?

 

[tweetymom]

it certainlly means the same thing In th NIV verison it says 1JN1:9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our us our sins, and to cleanse all righteousness . And the New King James says the samething.Sohere you go. I really like your posts. I am from California too if you want to send me a private message as to were in Calif. Just interseted as I am a native Californian. Not going to look you up or anything like that lol

 

[youngsaint]

Jesus said to John the apostle, “Behold your mother.” then he said to Mary, “Behold your son.”

Theologians have interpreted this as Jesus Giving Mary to Humanity as its mother.

Also Later John took care of Mary until the Assumption. Mary was and remains a Virgin.

I Hope this Helps

HickmanJosh

EXCELLENT way of saying it, I would like to add that the word “brother” actually translates to “kin”, so Josh is right, the Church also says that too.

 

[guanophore]

arandur:It seems to me that it would have been a lot easier, when writing the Bible; to have written: Mary and Joseph never married, they never had sexual relations, Joseph died, sometime after Jesus’s twelfth birthday, brothers means cousins…etc. It would have avoided a lot of confusion and debate, or speculation. You know, like whether Jesus was talking about Himself, when He said,"Upon this Rock, I will build MY Church…"But then, there may not have been a need for CAF

I am sure the writers never imagined that the Holy Writings would be separated from the Sacred Tradition which formed them. All the writings are directed toward those who received the Apostolic Teaching. It would never occur to them that people would abandon the Apostolic Teaching then try to re-imagine what occurred by using the texts in isolation from the Source that produced them.

 

[guanophore]

I am not stupid and only ask this for a question only. How does anyone know if the traditions are all true? Anymore than the Bible? 1beleevr its not being a cafetreia Catholic any more than some question the Bible. Its okay to question and I believe Jesus wants use too. Now with that statement I will get bashed instead of you. God Bless you on your journey with Christ and may you always feel His love and mine

Yes, it is right to question. It is also right to accept the answers that God has already revealed to the Church. It reveals a weak Jesus who is unable to preserve His word in the Church, as well as in the Scripture.

The notion that one can pick up the bible today, and understand it without any historical context reveals a tremendous degree of hubris.