Jesus was no Leftist

[mark_a]

But would Jesus approve of everything the political right is doing? They can pass budgets for wars but not for the poor in their own country. Tsk, tsk. While he may not have been a leftist he wasn’t an extreme rightist either. He came down right in the middle of everything.

Wow! A man with a heart.

A man that quite possibly understands that the extreme right has hijacked the abortion issue to get the Catholic vote.

A man who knows that just because George Bush got his picture taken with JPII doesn’t necessarily mean that JPII didn’t take W to the woodshed about Iraq.

 

[Sheeniac]

My view of Vern’s posting is that the terrorists are going to attack us, and we can fight them there or here.

While it is bad news that terrorists from across the globe travel to Iraq to fight us, it at least keeps them primarily focused on one area. And that area is not the US, thanks be to God.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m not sure what your getting at. Could you please elaborate?

There is a vast web of terrorism, composed of many organizations, all loosely cooperating, and all receiving and passing on money, advice and equipment.

What relevance does that have? The contents of that article were accurate 3 years ago and are still accurate today. Perhaps you could show me a more recent article that shows that Saddam supported Al Qaeda?

So in your opinion we should have closed all research facilities in say, 1900 – because everything learned by then was accurate and is still accurate today?

Try this –
cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200410%5CSPE20041004a.html

Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties
By Scott Wheeler
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
October 04, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein’s regime to work with some of the world’s most notorious terror organizations, including al Qaeda, to target Americans. They demonstrate that Saddam’s government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders.

One of the Iraqi memos contains an order from Saddam for his intelligence service to support terrorist attacks against Americans in Somalia. The memo was written nine months before U.S. Army Rangers were ambushed in Mogadishu by forces loyal to a warlord with alleged ties to al Qaeda.

Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States.

or this:
weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp

Saddam’s Terror Training Camps
What the documents captured from the former Iraqi regime reveal–and why they should all be made public.
by Stephen F. Hayes
01/16/2006, Volume 011, Issue 17

THE FORMER IRAQI REGIME OF Saddam Hussein trained thousands of radical Islamic terrorists from the region at camps in Iraq over the four years immediately preceding the U.S. invasion, according to documents and photographs recovered by the U.S. military in postwar Iraq. The existence and character of these documents has been confirmed to THE WEEKLY STANDARD by eleven U.S. government officials.

 

[bones_IV]

Even John Paul II warned Bush that going into Iraq was a mistake. Ord do some of us forget that?

There is no evidence that John Paul II was opposed to the Iraqi war.

 

[levi86]

Try this –
cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200410%5CSPE20041004a.html

or this:
weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp

Thanks. I’m going out for the evening, ill have a good read and get back to you in the morning.

God bless

 

[vern_humphrey]

Thanks. I’m going out for the evening, ill have a good read and get back to you in the morning.

God bless

You should have had that good read earlier – there are thousands of articles like those cited.

 

[Brendan]

But would Jesus approve of everything the political right is doing? They can pass budgets for wars but not for the poor in their own country.

Sort of.

He gave the task of feeding His sheep to Peter, not Cesear.

It’s not the govvernment that should have core responsibility for caring for the poor, but rather the Church.

That’s the way Jesus set it up, but the leftists would rather see a secular government doing the work God assigned to Peter.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Sort of.

He gave the task of feeding His sheep to Peter, not Cesear.

It’s not the govvernment that should have core responsibility for caring for the poor, but rather the Church.

That’s the way Jesus set it up, but the leftists would rather see a secular government doing the work God assigned to Peter.

1 Timothy 5, 3-16

3 Honor widows who are truly widows.
4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let these first learn to perform their religious duty to their own family and to make recompense to their parents, for this is pleasing to God.
5 The real widow, who is all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day.
6 But the one who is self-indulgent is dead while she lives.
7 Command this, so that they may be irreproachable.
8 And whoever does not provide for relatives and especially family members has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years old, married only once,
10 with a reputation for good works, namely, that she has raised children, practiced hospitality, washed the feet of the holy ones, helped those in distress, involved herself in every good work.
11 But exclude younger widows, for when their sensuality estranges them from Christ, they want to marry
12 and will incur condemnation for breaking their first pledge.
13 And furthermore, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers but gossips and busybodies as well, talking about things that ought not to be mentioned.
14 So I would like younger widows to marry, have children, and manage a home, so as to give the adversary no pretext for maligning us.
15 For some have already turned away to follow Satan.
16 If any woman believer 2 has widowed relatives, she must assist them; the church is not to be burdened, so that it will be able to help those who are truly widows.

Here, Saint Paul shows the dangers of excess charity and its debilitating impact on the recipient. He tells us that those who can support themselves must support themselves.

Those who cannot support themselves must be supported by their families – and if they have no immediate family, by more distant relatives.

One who abdicates his charitable duty is “has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever” – and that’s what we are when we throw our charitable duties onto the government.

 

[Sheeniac]

Another point - if the government had to show its efficiency similar to the fashion that charities do - who would suggest giving them any money?

The loss, waste, inefficiency, the size of the bureaucracy, etc. screams out for charitable organizations. How much more money could each of us give if taxes were cut? Of course, the flaw in my reasoning is that goverment expense is not tied to government revenu/income.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Another point - if the government had to show its efficiency similar to the fashion that charities do - who would suggest giving them any money?

The loss, waste, inefficiency, the size of the bureaucracy, etc. screams out for charitable organizations. How much more money could each of us give if taxes were cut? Of course, the flaw in my reasoning is that goverment expense is not tied to government revenu/income.

You make a good point – if the government had to abide by the same laws it sets for charities, the government would be in jail right now.

If the government had to abide by the same laws that allowed lawsuits against the tobacco industry and others who did bad things that hurt a lot of people, lawyers would be rolling in dough.

In trying to “fight poverty,” the government created the poverty cycle.

 

[mark_a]

There is no evidence that John Paul II was opposed to the Iraqi war.

Fr. Mitch Pacwa has a different view about how JPII felt about the Iraq war.

 

[St_Benedict]

1. What would be opposed to the social doctrine of the Church?
   vatican.va/archive/compen…um-ccc_en.html

2424-2425

Opposed to the social doctrine of the Church are economic and social systems that sacrifice the basic rights of persons or that make profit their exclusive norm or ultimate end. For this reason the Church rejects the ideologies associated in modern times with Communism or with atheistic and totalitarian forms of socialism. But in the practice of capitalism the Church also rejects self centered individualism and an absolute primacy of the laws of the marketplace over human labor.

(My Bold) - i.e all forms of socialism are not rejected, totalitarian or atheistic forms are.

It’s worth noting that the form of capitalism noted with self centered individualism often is guilty of two of the four sins that cry out to heaven -
Oppression of the poor
Defrauding laborers of their wages

It’s not entirely the systems themselves as such that cause problems, you could be a capitalist factory owner who pays good wages with good conditions creating good employment, generous to charities, buying your materials from fair trade suppliers on good terms. Or you could exploit your workforce, hire and fire onshort contracts moving your way around the world to exploit taxation putting money before people at all times.

 

[St_Benedict]

1. What would be opposed to the social doctrine of the Church?
   vatican.va/archive/compen…um-ccc_en.html

2424-2425

Opposed to the social doctrine of the Church are economic and social systems that sacrifice the basic rights of persons or that make profit their exclusive norm or ultimate end. For this reason the Church rejects the ideologies associated in modern times with Communism or with atheistic and totalitarian forms of socialism. But in the practice of capitalism the Church also rejects self centered individualism and an absolute primacy of the laws of the marketplace over human labor.

(My Bold) - i.e all forms of socialism are not rejected, totalitarian or atheistic forms are.

It’s worth noting that the form of capitalism noted with self centered individualism often is guilty of two of the four sins that cry out to heaven -
Oppression of the poor
Defrauding laborers of their wages

It’s not entirely the systems themselves as such that cause problems, you could be a capitalist factory owner who pays good wages with good conditions creating good employment, generous to charities, buying your materials from fair trade suppliers on good terms. Or you could exploit your workforce, hire and fire onshort contracts moving your way around the world to exploit taxation putting money before people at all times.

 

[Gnosis]

Since this article seems to emphasize that Jesus considered moral decisions on the micro-cosmic scale, why do religious people keep using Jesus to attack gay marriage?

He writes:

It is the Left that engages in a far more dangerous literalism when it applies Jesus’ words to national policy.

If you are going to accept this and praise this article, you have to stop using religion to justify your opposition to state supported abortion and homosexual marriage, otherwise you too would be “applying Jesus to national policy”.

 

[levi86]

Try this –
cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200410%5CSPE20041004a.html

or this:
weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp

Unfortunately for Scott Wheeler’s secret documents I have been given top secret confidential documents (of which are I can’t produce) by a top level official (of whom I cant identify) that contradicts Wheeler’s information These articles should not be considered as journalism, but rather as propaganda.

If there were evidence that Iraq possessed WMD why would your own president admit there was no such evidence? Your administration has admitted they lied, why is it so hard for you to accept that?

It should be noted that both CNS and The Weekly Standard are both neoconservative organisations. For the sake of consistency could you please provide me with a link (just one of the many “thousands”) that supports your position but is not associated with a neoconservative political agenda?

 

[St_Benedict]

Bush went to into Iraq but not any other dictator led country such as, for example, Zimbabwe

Wonder why…

 

[Brendan]

Bush went to into Iraq but not any other dictator led country such as, for example, Zimbabwe

Wonder why…

Because Zimbabwe didn’t use chemical weapons on it’s enemys and even own citizens or shoot at US aircraft patroling a UN mandated ‘no fly’ zone

 

[St_Benedict]

Because Zimbabwe didn’t use chemical weapons on it’s enemys and even own citizens or shoot at US aircraft patroling a UN mandated ‘no fly’ zone

Or it could be oil

 

[levi86]

Because Zimbabwe didn’t use chemical weapons on it’s enemys and even own citizens or shoot at US aircraft patroling a UN mandated ‘no fly’ zone

Maybe you should read up on Robert Mugabe. His crimes far exceed those of Saddam.

 

[mark_a]

Bush went to into Iraq but not any other dictator led country such as, for example, Zimbabwe

Wonder why…

Could it be for the same reason we have forged such a wonderful relationship Saudi Arabia?