Jesus's claims to divinity?

[heiscominginthe]

believe you have honestly told me what you believe, but sadly it is not in line with truth. Christ is the Truth.

Truth according to the CC, not the Word of God.

Let me ask you this, do you consider the pope Christ on earth?

 

[heiscominginthe]

John 1:1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.”

There is only one God. He is the Father of all Creation.

John 1
In the beginning was the Word.
The bible tells us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. In the beginning God begat his Son the Word, even before he created the heavens and the earth. And by the Son the Word of God, and through the Son the Word of God, God spoke all things into existence through the ministry of his Holy Spirit. God begat his Son who is the expressed image of the Father, a life unto himself. John 5:25

And the Word was with God. God begat his Son the Word, and God was a Father unto the Son and Jesus was a Son unto the Father.

And the Word was God. God the Father gave his Son his Holy Spirit without measure. The Son did only the will of his Father. Thus, making him God, for it is written, no man cometh unto the Father, but through the Son. In Hebrews 1, the Father himself refers to the Son as God so who do we do any less.

When all things have been brought into submission, the Son will offer up the kingdom unto his Father where he will relinquish the authority of the Godhead given him by his Father to do his will. For there is only one God. 1 Cor. 15:24-28

 

[heiscominginthe]

The Word of God is “begotten” of the Father because He was not made (created). He always was and He always will be, just as His Father always was and He always will be.

Does a word exist if left unspoken?

And what do you suppose begotten means?

1. (v. t.) To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; to produce; as, poverty can beget crime.
2. (v. t.) To get (with child.)
3. (v. t.) To produce as an effect; to cause to exist.

Was not the Son born of the Father? It is written that the Son is the expressed image of the Father. (Heb. 1) It is also written that the Son is a life unto himsef. (John 5:26) It is also written that the Son is the firstborn of all creatures.

Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creature.

 

[DonLeon]

My husband and I have an acquaintance who is a fallen-away Catholic. He recently claimed that “Jesus never said he was God”. We’re sure this is not true, but would appreciate some citations…

Jesus never said outright “I am God”, but he did say that He was God.

In Exodus 3:14 when Moses asks God what His name is, God say that He is called “I AM”. “I am who I am…that is My name forever”. Jesus, when telling the jewish authorities who He is (John 8:28) said “I Am Who I Am”. Again in John 8:58 He tells them again that " Before Abraham was I am,". Therefore, Jesus is saying that He IS God.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[heiscominginthe]

Peter and all the Apostles were indeed Catholic.

Show me in scripture where Peter, Paul or any of the apostles called themselves catholic. They had different names for the church of body of believers according to where they were located.

I don’t see anywhere in scripture where the church of Corinth is called the catholic church in Corinth or any of the other churches for that matter.

It wasn’t until 100 years after the death of our Lord is the word catholic even used. And even then it was only in a letter.

I believe it was between 300 to 400 AD that the church was deemed the catholic church.

 

[DonLeon]

Show me in scripture where Peter, Paul or any of the apostles called themselves catholic. They had different names for the church of body of believers according to where they were located.

I don’t see anywhere in scripture where the church of Corinth is called the catholic church in Corinth or any of the other churches for that matter.

It wasn’t until 100 years after the death of our Lord is the word catholic even used. And even then it was only in a letter.

I believe it was between 300 to 400 AD that the church was deemed the catholic church.

In reading your posts and answers to the questions put to you, you sound a lot like a Mormon, or Jehovahs Witness, more ready to argue than to discuss. Do you know what the word catholic means?

Also many have tried to prove that the Catholic church was wrong in her teachings and nave failed. The Catholic church has taught exactly what Christ told her to teach for the past two thousand years and no one has been able to prove otherwise.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[heiscominginthe]

In reading your posts and answers to the questions put to you, you sound a lot like a Mormon, or Jehovahs Witness, more ready to argue than to discuss. Do you know what the word catholic means?

Also many have tried to prove that the Catholic church was wrong in her teachings and nave failed. The Catholic church has taught exactly what Christ told her to teach for the past two thousand years and no one has been able to prove otherwise.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Although I believe the JW and Mormons as false religions, I talked to a couple young mormon men a few years ago and they were very open to the Word of God. I did not attempt to move them from their faith, but instead, seeing how receptive they were to the Word of God, I preached to them.

I view the mormons much more closer to the kingdom of God then many of the major denominations of the world. It is possible the mormons are a work in progress, still young in the Word.

Although, they to have bogged themselves down with pagan ideas and traditions of men. I pray the Lord move them from such nonsense.

You say that many have attempted to prove the CC wrong and have failed. Yet, they have failed in you own eyes.

I have yet to find one here who is willing to discuss two areas I feel the CC has changed that has brought many problems to the faith, the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Almost all have attempted to get me to go to this writing or that writing of catholic interpretation instead of showing me in the Word of God. I don’t want anything other then the written Word. It is the only thing that matters.

Here are somethings given me by the unction of the Holy Spirit. You tell me if they are truths or untruths. If they are truths, then could it not be said these truths are of God who is the author of all truth?

1. To sin against your brother is to sin against God.
2. A Holy spirit filled man is the echo of God.
3. The only good in me is yielding to the will of God.
4. The perfect slave is the one ignorant of the fact he is a slave.
5. Only when my cup of self will is empty, will I truly be filled in Christ.
6. Jesus died to save us from ourselves.
7. God’s fingerprints are everywhere, they have just been covered over by man’s.

So if all the above is true, should we consider them as doctrine? Why or why not. I suggest we stick with the writings of God’s Holy Apostles.

 

[heiscominginthe]

Dear Sohpie,

It says in scripture that God the Father gave the Son is Holy Spirit without measure.

So image a glass of water, filled completely to the brim. If you try to add more water to it, the water spills out.

So when we look at the cup, we say it is a cup full of water.

So now we have the Son of God, completely filled with the Holy Spriit of God. Jesus was God’s perfect will. All that he said and did was by the will of his Father. So it is not wrong to call the Son God.

Then if you read the first chapter of Hebrews, God the Father refers to his Son as God. So who are we to not do the same.

 

[SHW]

Does a word exist if left unspoken?

And what do you suppose begotten means?

1. (v. t.) To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; to produce; as, poverty can beget crime.
2. (v. t.) To get (with child.)
3. (v. t.) To produce as an effect; to cause to exist.

Was not the Son born of the Father? It is written that the Son is the expressed image of the Father. (Heb. 1) It is also written that the Son is a life unto himsef. (John 5:26) It is also written that the Son is the firstborn of all creatures.

Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creature.

“Begotten” for the Son (as the Word of God) means that He was “eternally” begotten, He had no “beginning” as the Word of God. He always was and is and always will be.

The Council of Nicaea convened 325 A.D. and set forth in a creed the relationship of the Son to the Father:

The Nicene Creed

We believe in God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfilment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen

Paul is asserting that Jesus reigns supreme over all created beings, in heaven and on earth; His dominion is absolute, and He is infinitely beyond any created entity. This is what is meant by “firstborn of all creatures.” Jesus’ Divine Nature and His Human Nature are a hypostatic union and cannot be separated so He is therefore the firstborn of all creatures.

Hypostatic union of Jesus Christ: the union of the wholly divine nature and of a wholly human nature in the one person of Jesus Christ (in full hypostatic union)

**John 14:6-9 **"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” 8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? This is why the Son is the “express image” of the Father.

Jesus has a hypostatic union with His Father. They are of one substance.

Hypostatic Union of God: a) the unique nature of the one God b) any of the three persons of the Trinity, each person having the divine nature fully and equally c) the union of the wholly divine nature and of a wholly human nature in the one person of Jesus Christ (in full hypostatic union)

The Father is the Will of God. He has to “will” something to happen before this something can happen. Jesus states that if you have seen Him, then you have seen the Father because they are one. After the Father Wills, then the Son commands by His Word in order for the Holy Spirit, the Power, to act and accomplish the Father’s Will and the Son’s Word/command. The Holy Spirit therefore proceeds from both the Father and the Son.
**
Jesus is a life unto Himself **because He has both a Divine Nature and a Human Nature. The Father does not have a human nature. The Word did not have a human nature until He became incarnate 2000 years ago.

Pax,
SHW

 

[heiscominginthe]

Was not the Son born of the Father? It is written that the Son is the expressed image of the Father. (Heb. 1) It is also written that the Son is a life unto himsef. (John 5:26) It is also written that the Son is the firstborn of all creatures.

Colossians 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creature.

I appreciate all you wrote, but in it all, none of the above was answered in my eyes.

What do you suppose it means that God the Father gave Jesus life unto himself?

What does it mean when it says Jesus is the firstborn of all creatures?

 

[SHW]

I appreciate all you wrote, but in it all, none of the above was answered in my eyes.

What do you suppose it means that God the Father gave Jesus life unto himself?

What does it mean when it says Jesus is the firstborn of all creatures?

Hi HICIT,

I explained them to the best of my ability but either you do not understand what I wrote or else you do not choose to believe what I wrote. Not everything is known about God and can be explained in human terms. Perhaps you need new “spiritual” eyes. We cannot comprehend everything there is to know about God. We have finite minds. God is infinite. Human words cannot express the fullness of God. We believe these Truths taught by His Church because it has His authority to teach in His name. He promised that it cannot teach error and we believe Him. (Luke 10:16, John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 2:12-14, Matthew 28:19-20)

So, if we follow His Catholic (universal) Church’s teachings, we cannot error in matters of faith and morals. He built His Church upon Peter and his successors. Where Peter is (the papacy), there is His Church. (Matthew 16:17-19) We can always know which is the true Church by finding Peter (Pope) and listening to him. Jesus promised to be with His Church through its hierarchy with pope, bishops, and priests until He returns again. It really is not necessary to understand every single Scripture passage in order to be saved.

Pax,
SHW

 

[DonLeon]

Hi HICIT,

I explained them to the best of my ability but either you do not understand what I wrote or else you do not choose to believe what I wrote. Not everything is known about God and can be explained in human terms. Perhaps you need new “spiritual” eyes. We cannot comprehend everything there is to know about God. We have finite minds. God is infinite. Human words cannot express the fullness of God. We believe these Truths taught by His Church because it has His authority to teach in His name. He promised that it cannot teach error and we believe Him. (Luke 10:16, John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 2:12-14, Matthew 28:19-20)

So, if we follow His Catholic (universal) Church’s teachings, we cannot error in matters of faith and morals. He built His Church upon Peter and his successors. Where Peter is (the papacy), there is His Church. (Matthew 16:17-19) We can always know which is the true Church by finding Peter (Pope) and listening to him. Jesus promised to be with His Church through its hierarchy with pope, bishops, and priests until He returns again. It really is not necessary to understand every single Scripture passage in order to be saved.

Pax,
SHW

A GREAT explanation. If it is not understood then the Lord’s statement of having ears but not hearing and understanding would most definitely apply here.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[heiscominginthe]

So, if we follow His Catholic (universal) Church’s teachings, we cannot error in matters of faith and morals.

The CC has been changing their stands, doctrine for hundreds of years.

Again, your post did not answer these questions.

Originally Posted by heiscominginthe
I appreciate all you wrote, but in it all, none of the above was answered in my eyes.

What do you suppose it means that God the Father gave Jesus life unto himself?

What does it mean when it says Jesus is the firstborn of all creatures?

So I will make this simple for you. Is Jesus a life unto himself, seperated from God?

Is Jesus the firstborn of all creation, or all creatures?

 

[heiscominginthe]

A GREAT explanation. If it is not understood then the Lord’s statement of having ears but not hearing and understanding would most definitely apply here.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

As for this statement, I give thee this…

Acts 5: 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

It is wise that you be more receptive, open and allot less indoctrinated. For in two areas alone, it is easy to disprove the CC stand which is baptism and the trinity.

I question to areas of doctrine. One which is the cornerstone of the faith which is baptism and the other is the trinity doctrine.

 

[DonLeon]

As for this statement, I give thee this…

Acts 5: 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

It is wise that you be more receptive, open and allot less indoctrinated. For in two areas alone, it is easy to disprove the CC stand which is baptism and the trinity.

I question to areas of doctrine. One which is the cornerstone of the faith which is baptism and the other is the trinity doctrine.

My friend, many have tried and have utterly failed to disprove the doctrines of the Holy Trinity and infant baptism, which as you say are the cornerstones of the faith.

There is one cornerstone for Christianity and that is the resurrection of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ!

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[heiscominginthe]

My friend, many have tried and have utterly failed to disprove the doctrines of the Holy Trinity and infant baptism, which as you say are the cornerstones of the faith.

There is one cornerstone for Christianity and that is the resurrection of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ!

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I agree completely that Jesus is the cornerstone of the faith, for it is WRITTEN.

Yet, show me is scripture where it is alright to baptize an infant. Also show me where it says to baptize in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Also show me in scripture where it says when a man is baptized by water he is baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[heiscominginthe]

We cannot comprehend everything there is to know about God.

Our Heavenly Father wants us to know him. He is always ready to reveal himself to us. It is man who establishes or puts particians between himself and God.

What did our Lord Jesus say about his relationship with his Father? He said the Father showed him and so should we.

As for spiritual eyes, these come by way of Christ in us, ministering though us by way of the Holy Spirit through faith.

Only when my cup of selfwill is empty will I truly be filled with Christ.

 

[heiscominginthe]

It really is not necessary to understand every single Scripture passage in order to be saved.

What man can comprehend all there is to know about God in a hundred lifetimes, in a thousand lifetimes?

Our entire lives are spend in a growing process. Unfortunately, men come to a point where they stunt their spiritual growth by believing things that are not of God, are not scriptural.

Doubting God’s Word is a faith killer.

 

[MDK]

Truth according to the CC, not the Word of God.

Let me ask you this, do you consider the pope Christ on earth?

Truth revealed according to God is truth according to His Church. It’s not either/or. Note that it is His Church. We Catholics are members of His Church. It was not created by man, but by God. I think that’s why so many have a hard time understanding it. It does take sincere study and prayer. Many try to limit God by what their human mind can understand, instead of listening to Him and who He sent, and following Him as He prescribed.

Only a confused mind and distorted view of reality would consider the pope as Christ. Christ is the King. The Pope is His Prime Minister of His earthly Kingdom, left as visible head of Christ’s Church while Christ the King is away and in Heaven on His throne.

 

[MDK]

Our Heavenly Father wants us to know him. He is always ready to reveal himself to us. It is man who establishes or puts particians between himself and God.

What did our Lord Jesus say about his relationship with his Father? He said the Father showed him and so should we.

As for spiritual eyes, these come by way of Christ in us, ministering though us by way of the Holy Spirit through faith.

Only when my cup of selfwill is empty will I truly be filled with Christ.

Are you attempting to confirm or deny the statement to which you responded? In other words, do you think you can comprehend everything about God?

Who established the Church… God or man?
If God established His Church, was it for no reason, or is there a reason?
Should you listen to the Church built by God?