Jesus's claims to divinity?

[SHW]

This is contrary to the Word of God.

Why do believers want to rob salvation of the blood that saves them? Do you not understand the importance of the blood. Without the blood, there would be not remission of sins. What is more important, water or blood? The church for too long has turned it’s back on the blood of the lamb. I rebuke all who do this. It is time to change this. For the power is in the blood of the lamb.

Heb. 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Acts 20:28 Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.

Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;

Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.

Hebrews 9:12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate.

1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Revelation 7:14 I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, "These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood.

Revelation 12:11 They overcame him because of the Lamb’s blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn’t love their life, even to death.

I believe every one of those Scriptures. However, Jesus applied the merits of His Blood Sacrifice to our souls through the waters of Baptism. With faith comes obedience to baptism. They are not separated.

Acts 22:15-16 “For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’”

All of your Scriptures about the Blood still do not negate the truth of this Scripture!

The “sprinkling of His Blood” refers to the sprinkling of the waters of Baptism. Jesus removes our sins through Baptism. Baptism washes away our sins. This is how Jesus applies His Blood to our souls in order to cleanse them.

 

[MDK]

Show me in the Word of God.

The word of God as you know in the Bible was written by Catholics, for Catholics, in the context of Catholicism. Prideful people will take it out of context, and tell the author they are wrong.

You don’t know the word of God, and what Christ established. It is arrogant to proceed as you do. Why not ask what Christ established, than establishing your own faith system which ironically distort that same word of God that you pretend to uphold?

 

[MDK]

Then explain two simple scriptures.

John 5:26 and 1 Cor. 15:24-28

You at least acknowledged Jesus was born of the Father. Yet, John 5:26 says he is a life unto himself.

I have not once said Jesus is not God. I believe his Father gave him the fullness of the Godhead, all authority to carry out the will of the Father. Yet, there will come a time when the Son gives back the authority unto the Father as spoken in 1 Cor. 15:24-28.

I’ve already explained this in a detailed manner. It would be polite to admit that you don’t understand the teaching, rather than to falsely pretend that I am not in line with what is truth.

Neither of these support the ignorance and arrogance you’re trying to promote. Jesus is eternal. Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, begotten of the Father. What part of that do you not understand?

 

[SimonArizona]

If Jesus said I am God, his disciples would of fallen to the earth in great fear and never gotten up. He didn’t want anyone to know he was Christ, yet.

 

[heiscominginthe]

Acts 22:15-16 “For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’”

This is the baptism of salvation into Christ. Romans 6

When a man is born again, he believes and calls on the name of the Lord, asking his forgiveness for sin.

 

[heiscominginthe]

I’ve already explained this in a detailed manner. It would be polite to admit that you don’t understand the teaching, rather than to falsely pretend that I am not in line with what is truth.

Neither of these support the ignorance and arrogance you’re trying to promote. Jesus is eternal. Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, begotten of the Father. What part of that do you not understand?

You can call me ignorant and arrogant, but that could not be further from the truth.

When the Lord had me start my ministry on the web, I was going to go to the unsaved. Yet, he told me not to go there, but to go to the churches who have lost their way. I have already been to many, and as the apostles were accepted or not accepted, is how I treated this work. If not accepted, I wipe the dust from my feet and move on. For to hear the truth is to be held accountable to the truth. And by doing this, no man will have excuse for turning down so great a salvation.

I came here out of the love of my heart, which is not my love, but that of the Lord. For what earthly love can endure the trials and tribulations that come with the furthance of the gospel?

And as I said before, my God does not have a split personality. There is God the Father, who is the Holy Spirit and there is God his Son. Hebrews 1

For God the Father to come to the earth himself, posing as his only begotten Son promotes confusion and that in itself is contrary to the Word of God.

For it is written, God is not the god of confusion.

 

[heiscominginthe]

The word of God as you know in the Bible was written by Catholics, for Catholics, in the context of Catholicism. Prideful people will take it out of context, and tell the author they are wrong.

You don’t know the word of God, and what Christ established. It is arrogant to proceed as you do. Why not ask what Christ established, than establishing your own faith system which ironically distort that same word of God that you pretend to uphold?

Attacking me instead of showing me in scripture in itself reveals you do not know the Word of God.

 

[diggerdomer]

And as I said before, my God does not have a split personality. There is God the Father, who is the Holy Spirit and there is God his Son. Hebrews 1

That sounds like two Gods. (Father/Spirit and Son)

For God the Father to come to the earth himself, posing as his only begotten Son

That sounds like one God. (Father posing as Son)

promotes confusion and that in itself is contrary to the Word of God.

For it is written, God is not the god of confusion.

I admit, I’m confused! What are you trying to say here?

Christians believe there is one God in three Persons. Thanks for any clarification.

 

[DonLeon]

Why do believers want to rob salvation of the blood that saves them? Do you not understand the importance of the blood. Without the blood, there would be not remission of sins. What is more important, water or blood? The church for too long has turned it’s back on the blood of the lamb. I rebuke all who do this. It is time to change this. For the power is in the blood of the lamb.

Heb. 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Acts 20:28 Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.

Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;

Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.

Hebrews 9:12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate.

1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Revelation 7:14 I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, "These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood.

Revelation 12:11 They overcame him because of the Lamb’s blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn’t love their life, even to death.

Might I say that your mind is COMPLETELY closed to the truth and you persist in your own interpretation of scripture. Might I ask what is your authority? The CC’s authority comes directly from God the Son, Jesus Christ, and it is futile to try to prove otherwise.
I pray that the Holy Spirit opens your CLOSED mind to the truth!

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[SHW]

This is the baptism of salvation into Christ. Romans 6

When a man is born again, he believes and calls on the name of the Lord, asking his forgiveness for sin.

A person is born again through the Sacrament of Baptism. God uses water to wash away the sins on our souls. This is how He chose to do it. We cannot argue with God. You can walk away from the Truth, but arguing will get you nowhere with God. He commands as He pleases and He said to do the following:

The person who is baptizing states: “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” He states this while pouring water over the person being baptized. This is what “calling on the name of the Lord” means. Baptism is what makes us “born again.” (Matthew 28:18-20)

The Church’s hierarchy has been doing this exact practice for 2000 years in obedience to Jesus’ command and now you say that this is not what they did or meant. How is it possible that you think that you can pick up a Bible about 2000 years after it is written and then personally decide how to interpret it and therefore conclude that 2000 years’ Church history and teaching is worthless because it does not match “your” interpretation?

The Bible is the Catholic Church’s book, made by Catholics for Catholics. You are just “borrowing” it and then making up “your” own “religion.” The Church can handle its history and interpretation of the Bible just fine without any help from non-Catholics.

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

You can call me ignorant and arrogant, but that could not be further from the truth.

When the Lord had me start my ministry on the web, I was going to go to the unsaved. Yet, he told me not to go there, but to go to the churches who have lost their way. I have already been to many, and as the apostles were accepted or not accepted, is how I treated this work. If not accepted, I wipe the dust from my feet and move on. For to hear the truth is to be held accountable to the truth. And by doing this, no man will have excuse for turning down so great a salvation.

I came here out of the love of my heart, which is not my love, but that of the Lord. For what earthly love can endure the trials and tribulations that come with the furthance of the gospel?

And as I said before, my God does not have a split personality. There is God the Father, who is the Holy Spirit and there is God his Son. Hebrews 1

For God the Father to come to the earth himself, posing as his only begotten Son promotes confusion and that in itself is contrary to the Word of God.

For it is written, God is not the god of confusion.

We are not confused. We understand the Scriptures because we were taught by faithful teachers who can trace their teachings back to the Apostles themselves. (2 Timothy 2:2)

It is you who are confused. And we, in Christian love, will not lie to you so that you can continue to believe otherwise. You may wipe the dust from your feet if you choose to and leave, but you’d be better off spiritually if you’d hang around and learn the real truth.

Pax,
SHW

 

[heiscominginthe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by heiscominginthe
And as I said before, my God does not have a split personality. There is God the Father, who is the Holy Spirit and there is God his Son. Hebrews 1

That sounds like two Gods. (Father/Spirit and Son)

What makes it not robbery to call the Son God, to call him Father, to call him equal is that our Heavenly Father gave his Holy Spirit unto his Son without measure. So everything Jesus said, did, does is through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is like a glove that does not move until the hand enters inside it. Then the glove moves according to movement of the hand.

So Jesus is indeed God, Father God at this time, for he is completely filled with the Holy Spirit of his Father.

Yet, he will relinquish the authority of the Godhead so that God the Father will be all in all. 1 Cor. 15:24-28

At that time, he too will be subject unto the Father.

 

[heiscominginthe]

It is you who are confused. And we, in Christian love, will not lie to you so that you can continue to believe otherwise. You may wipe the dust from your feet if you choose to and leave, but you’d be better off spiritually if you’d hang around and learn the real truth.

Pax,
SHW

I am kind of confused. For I don’t understand why God has revealed so much of himself to someone as unworthy as myself. All I can or hope to do is promote the gospel of his only begotten Son, Christ the Lord.

As for leaving, that will be decided most likely by the moderators of this forum. The last thing I want to do is leave. I was invited here by a catholic brother who I believe see the truth in what I preach. I don’t believe he invited me to convert me.

And know I love you SHW and that is truth.

 

[heiscominginthe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by heiscominginthe
promotes confusion and that in itself is contrary to the Word of God.

For it is written, God is not the god of confusion.

I admit, I’m confused! What are you trying to say here?

Christians believe there is one God in three Persons. Thanks for any clarification.

Why would God, the creator of all things come to earth not as the great and powerful God, but disquised as his Son. Why does scripture say the Son was begotten of the Father if it really is the Father.

Don’t you see, that if God the Father came to man, the brightness of his glory, his righteousness would destroy man. Sinful man cannot stand in the presence of God.

That is why God sent his Son.

Also, which would be the greater sacrifice or burden to God, to sacrifice his life which is impossible or to have a Son and love him very much, then have to watch him die?

And remember, it is impossible for God the Father, who is without beginning or end, to die.

 

[SHW]

What makes it not robbery to call the Son God, to call him Father, to call him equal is that our Heavenly Father gave his Holy Spirit unto his Son without measure. So everything Jesus said, did, does is through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is like a glove that does not move until the hand enters inside it. Then the glove moves according to movement of the hand.

So Jesus is indeed God, Father God at this time, for he is completely filled with the Holy Spirit of his Father.

Yet, he will relinquish the authority of the Godhead so that God the Father will be all in all. 1 Cor. 15:24-28

At that time, he too will be subject unto the Father.

Jesus never loses His Divinity. He is subject to His Father because that is His hierarchical role in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is subject to the Father and the Son. This is perfect order. They are all equal but They have different roles in order to do the things that the Godhead (all Three) pleases to do.

His being “subject” to His Father does not diminish His equality. All three Divine Persons are “all in all.” What makes Them all “one” is that They are of only one “Substance” which we call “God.” They each are in each other because They are of only one Substance/Divine Nature. (However, Jesus also has a Human Nature besides His Divine Nature.) Their Divinity is perfect “oneness” with each other which we cannot understand with our finite brains. That is why it is called a “Mystery.”

Jesus has never been His Father and will never be His Father. He is a Divine Person and always will be. The Father is a Divine Person and the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person. This will never change.

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

I am kind of confused. For I don’t understand why God has revealed so much of himself to someone as unworthy as myself. All I can or hope to do is promote the gospel of his only begotten Son, Christ the Lord.

As for leaving, that will be decided most likely by the moderators of this forum. The last thing I want to do is leave. I was invited here by a catholic brother who I believe see the truth in what I preach. I don’t believe he invited me to convert me.

And know I love you SHW and that is truth.

Hello,

I sincerely appreciate your love for me and fellow Christians. I am here on this forum for the same reason.

I am sorry to have to tell you that sincere as you are, your gospel is not that of Jesus and His Apostles and Disciples. His gospel cannot change and yours is different than theirs. The only way that you can be sure that your gospel is the correct one is to believe the teachings of His Church; She (Church) alone is the pillar (support) and ground (foundation) of the Truth (1 Timothy 3:15).

He founded a Church and built it upon Peter and He (and each subsequent successor) alone has the keys to the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 16:18-19). Unless you are a member of His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, you do not have the full Truth. You may have partial Truth but you cannot possibly have the full Truth because it is found only in the Catholic Church with its Sacraments and Priesthood and its Sacred Tradition which is comprised of Scripture Tradition, Oral Tradition, and the Teachings of the Magisterium (2 Thessalonians 2:15, 1 Corinthians 11:2).

We are warned:

Galatians 1:9 “As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.”

We will not be exchanging our Lord’s gospel for another and we are warned that persons will try to draw us away from Truth by their mistaken interpretations of Scripture (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Timothy 4:3-4). Not all of these persons realize that they are not teaching the Truth but instead believe that the Holy Spirit has taught them. But the Holy Spirit guides the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church until Jesus returns at His Second Coming as was promised (Matthew 28:20, John 16:13). This infallible guidance for faith and morals was not promised to individuals outside this one Church. Rather, it is only promised to the Pope and the Magisterium in union with him.

Pax,
SHW

 

[heiscominginthe]

His being “subject” to His Father does not diminish His equality. All three Divine Persons are “all in all.”

You are adding to the Word of God.

 

[heiscominginthe]

Unless you are a member of His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, you do not have the full Truth.

I don’t believe there was ever a time I did not believe in God.

He came to me in my dreams even before the age of five. I remember how the women in my kindergarden Sunday school were amazed by my understanding of God. Yet, I only knew what he revealed to me.

When I was in school, I was excited to learn to read so I could read the Word of God. Once I learned to read, I was without understanding. Yet, regardless, reading God’s Word made me feel closer to him.

When I learned God’s commandments, I became aware of my sin and can recall the day my spirit inside me died. For the first time in my life I felt alone, apart from God. Yet, he did not forsake me.

At the age of fifteen, I was invited to a youth for Christ get away weekend at the local YMCA.

On the night we were to leave, on Sunday, there was a church service. It was here I finally understood. For my heart became convicted and I knew I needed to be saved/born again.

The Lord came into my heart like a rushing wind. I wept like never before and when it was all said and done, I was a new creature in Christ. All things had become new to me, as it is written in the Word of God.

NOW that you have read my confession, you tell me if I am a member of Christ’s Church.

Choose your words wisely, for when you stand before the Father, this very conversation will come to your rememberance.

 

[SHW]

You are adding to the Word of God.

No I am not, but I am understanding the Word of God.

 

[SHW]

I don’t believe there was ever a time I did not believe in God.

He came to me in my dreams even before the age of five. I remember how the women in my kindergarden Sunday school were amazed by my understanding of God. Yet, I only knew what he revealed to me.

When I was in school, I was excited to learn to read so I could read the Word of God. Once I learned to read, I was without understanding. Yet, regardless, reading God’s Word made me feel closer to him.

When I learned God’s commandments, I became aware of my sin and can recall the day my spirit inside me died. For the first time in my life I felt alone, apart from God. Yet, he did not forsake me.

At the age of fifteen, I was invited to a youth for Christ get away weekend at the local YMCA.

On the night we were to leave, on Sunday, there was a church service. It was here I finally understood. For my heart became convicted and I knew I needed to be saved/born again.

The Lord came into my heart like a rushing wind. I wept like never before and when it was all said and done, I was a new creature in Christ. All things had become new to me, as it is written in the Word of God.

NOW that you have read my confession, you tell me if I am a member of Christ’s Church.

Choose your words wisely, for when you stand before the Father, this very conversation will come to your rememberance.

I do not doubt your sincerity nor your conversion experience. I am happy for you that you came to the Lord. God meets us where we are!

And, yes, I do think that you are a member of Christ’s Body, but not in its fullness, because this fullness can only be found in the Catholic Church and you are not a member of it. You have not received all of Christ’s Sacraments, which He desires for all persons who believe in Him, to have. He gives us graces through His Sacraments. He built only one Church, but many people believe only the parts of it that they decide to agree with, in order to make their own churches, and neglect the rest that He desires them to believe.

Since you do not know the whole Truth, He will judge you with this fact in mind, because He desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth.

It seems to me that you received the Holy Spirit in much the same way that the Gentiles in Acts received Him.

Acts 10:43-48 “ To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47** “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized."**

Even though they received the Holy Spirit, Paul still commanded them to be baptized because this is Jesus’ command.

Acts 22:16 “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

1 John 5:6 “This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.”

John explains that it is both the water of Baptism and Christ’s Blood which take away our sins and the Holy Spirit then moves into our souls/temples to abide in us as God’s witness of this Truth.

John 3:5 “Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Jesus commanded that we be born again through Baptism and this is why the Apostles commanded for persons to be baptized even when they received the Holy Spirit first. Jesus is above His laws for us and can give the Holy Spirit to those without Baptism if He so chooses, but the Church must follow His laws as He commands.

Pax,
SHW