Jesus's claims to divinity?

[heiscominginthe]

Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized."

This is exactly my point. You chose to leave this out and it is written we are not to add or take away from the Word of God.

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

It does not say in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It says in the name of the Lord. And also, here are believers who had received the Holy Spirit from God. Were they saved before receiving water baptism? Certainly they were because God will not put his Holy Spirit in an unclean vessel. So these people believed, and were born again/ saved and immediately filled with the Holy Spirit as were the apostles on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 22:16 “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Also, this scripture as I stated before has nothing to do with water baptism, but salvation. Notice it says that by calling on the name of the Lord their sins will be washed away. It says nothing of baptizing in the name of Jesus. This baptism is through the blood of the lamb.

And, yes, I do think that you are a member of Christ’s Body, but not in its fullness, because this fullness can only be found in the Catholic Church and you are not a member of it.

It might surprise you that I have been of the family of Christ for nearly 48 years. I believe the three years between my childhood and my salvation was the only time my soul was truly in jeopardy. Yet, the Lord watched over me.

As for our arguments on the subject, you refuse to disprove what I have written including scriptures and post your arguments where are simple to debunk.

And then you tell me my walk in faith is lack since I am not catholic.

Let me tell you a story, and then I will ask you if you have had at any time experienced the movement of God.

I was working in an room at a power plant where air pollution equipment released sulfer gasses into this room. The room had windows and often times birds would fly in and get trapped, not being able to find their way out before being over come by the fumes and dying.

I was taking reading on this day when I noticed a movement from the corner of my eye. I looked and seen a bird had flown in. I knew if I didn’t catch it, it would die. So I tried to catch it. After several failed attempts, I gave up and went back taking my readings.

Again the bird flew within my visual range, me seeing him from the corner of my eye. It was then I felt the movement of the Holy Spirit. I turned and see the bird about thirty to maybe forty feet from me sitting on a handrail

I prayed that the Lord help me catch the bird because I did not want it to die in this place. I said, “Satan, I rebuke the fear you have in this small creature of God and command it to be gone.”

The bird flew off the handrail and landed about two to three feet in front of me. Now, the Holy Ghost had done his thing and I was back being a man, thinking like a man.

I stood their amazed while the bird looked up and me as if to say, what are you waiting for. It then hopped past me to about one foot behind me. Me still thinking as a natural man moved very slowly so as to not alarm the bird and have it fly away. I picked up the bird which did not flutter at all and I took it and set it free outside.

That entire day, week and month I was on fire for the Lord.

The important thing to remember is often times, we are our greatest enemies by our doubts.

God is always ready to reveal signs and wonders to us. As we grow in faith, God does something we know came from him, and our faith grows. As our faith grows, God does more and more wonders.

It is our doubt that kills our faith.

So, have you had any experiences like this. I can go on with some more of mine, this was more of a simple one.

 

[MDK]

I don’t believe there was ever a time I did not believe in God.

He came to me in my dreams even before the age of five. I remember how the women in my kindergarden Sunday school were amazed by my understanding of God. Yet, I only knew what he revealed to me.

When I was in school, I was excited to learn to read so I could read the Word of God. Once I learned to read, I was without understanding. Yet, regardless, reading God’s Word made me feel closer to him.

When I learned God’s commandments, I became aware of my sin and can recall the day my spirit inside me died. For the first time in my life I felt alone, apart from God. Yet, he did not forsake me.

At the age of fifteen, I was invited to a youth for Christ get away weekend at the local YMCA.

On the night we were to leave, on Sunday, there was a church service. It was here I finally understood. For my heart became convicted and I knew I needed to be saved/born again.

The Lord came into my heart like a rushing wind. I wept like never before and when it was all said and done, I was a new creature in Christ. All things had become new to me, as it is written in the Word of God.

NOW that you have read my confession, you tell me if I am a member of Christ’s Church.

Choose your words wisely, for when you stand before the Father, this very conversation will come to your rememberance.

You believe in a God as you desire, essentially creating God in the image you desire. Anyone can determine that this is wrong, and the result of an errant philosophy, pride rather than humility that Christ asks of us.

 

[MDK]

You are adding to the Word of God.

You are judging this based on your word, but not God’s. This is self righteousness, not righteousness in God.

 

[MDK]

You can call me ignorant and arrogant, but that could not be further from the truth.

When the Lord had me start my ministry on the web, I was going to go to the unsaved. Yet, he told me not to go there, but to go to the churches who have lost their way. I have already been to many, and as the apostles were accepted or not accepted, is how I treated this work. If not accepted, I wipe the dust from my feet and move on. For to hear the truth is to be held accountable to the truth. And by doing this, no man will have excuse for turning down so great a salvation.

I came here out of the love of my heart, which is not my love, but that of the Lord. For what earthly love can endure the trials and tribulations that come with the furthance of the gospel?

And as I said before, my God does not have a split personality. There is God the Father, who is the Holy Spirit and there is God his Son. Hebrews 1

For God the Father to come to the earth himself, posing as his only begotten Son promotes confusion and that in itself is contrary to the Word of God.

For it is written, God is not the god of confusion.

I only wish you had some remote idea of the truth. It would make the conversation much more pleasant, instead of your continued denials of truth.

I tell you that God did not tell you to have a ministry against His teachings, which is what you’re promoting.

God is not a god of confusion, that is why your confusion makes it clear that God is not your god that you listen to… sadly.

Listen to God for a change, for your own good.

 

[SHW]

This is exactly my point. You chose to leave this out and it is written we are not to add or take away from the Word of God.

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

It does not say in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It says in the name of the Lord. And also, here are believers who had received the Holy Spirit from God. Were they saved before receiving water baptism? Certainly they were because God will not put his Holy Spirit in an unclean vessel. So these people believed, and were born again/ saved and immediately filled with the Holy Spirit as were the apostles on the day of Pentecost.

Also, this scripture as I stated before has nothing to do with water baptism, but salvation. Notice it says that by calling on the name of the Lord their sins will be washed away. It says nothing of baptizing in the name of Jesus. This baptism is through the blood of the lamb.

“Name of the Lord” means the “Name of Jesus,” and not “John’s baptism” which was for repentance (Acts 19:4). Jesus commands that we be baptized in “the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” This “Baptism of Jesus” is what He commanded in Matthew 28:19. It is what He commands. He commands that we be baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 6:11, Acts 19:5) We must obey Him and we Catholics do obey Him.

Your story: nice story, but most Christians, including myself have many such stories. They don’t prove who is the better Christian. They just prove that we have a merciful and loving Creator.

But the Word of God commands:

2 Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

You are not obeying this command, you are establishing your own faith traditions, instead of the gospel of Jesus and His Apostles which has been handed down throughout the ages by His Church (1 Timothy 3:15). You have made yourself “pope” of your own individual church by your own interpretations of Scripture.

If you want to be a member of the true Church of Christ, then you need to find the one with the successor of Peter as its head. He promises to be with this Church until the end of time. (Matthew 16:17-19, Matthew 28:19-20)

I am already in this Church. Why do you think that you can disregard His Church and its teachings and establish your own? (2 Timothy 4:3-5, 2 Timothy 2:2)

Pax,
SHW

 

[MDK]

I am kind of confused. For I don’t understand why God has revealed so much of himself to someone as unworthy as myself. All I can or hope to do is promote the gospel of his only begotten Son, Christ the Lord.

As for leaving, that will be decided most likely by the moderators of this forum. The last thing I want to do is leave. I was invited here by a catholic brother who I believe see the truth in what I preach. I don’t believe he invited me to convert me.

And know I love you SHW and that is truth.

News… God hasn’t revealed truth to you. Better check your “guide” because your “guide” opposes those whom the Holy Spirit protected. I don’t know how you get out of this illusion you’re in, but someday, it will likely be a harsh reality, unfortunately.

 

[wasmit]

My husband and I have an acquaintance who is a fallen-away Catholic. He recently claimed that “Jesus never said he was God”. We’re sure this is not true, but would appreciate some citations…

If you want to resolve that interesting question you first need to ask yourself these questions:

(1) DID he proclaim himself this or was this an accretion to his story added in later decades?
(2) Did the phrase “Son of God” mean to a Jew and Jewish audience then what you seem to think it means - ie God in human form?

The answer to (1) is “We really don’t know”.
The answer to (2) is “No, it didn’t”.

Even if we assume that Jesus did claim to be “the Son of God”, all the evidence indicates that this title, along with “Son of Man”, simply meant “the Messiah” and not “God in human form”. That latter interpretation didn’t arise until after the Jesus Sect had begun to well and truly drift from its Jewish roots and would have been incomprehensible and actually abhorrent to Jesus and his first followers.

 

[MDK]

If you want to resolve that interesting question you first need to ask yourself these questions:

(1) DID he proclaim himself this or was this an accretion to his story added in later decades?
(2) Did the phrase “Son of God” mean to a Jew and Jewish audience then what you seem to think it means - ie God in human form?

The answer to (1) is “We really don’t know”.
The answer to (2) is “No, it didn’t”.

Even if we assume that Jesus did claim to be “the Son of God”, all the evidence indicates that this title, along with “Son of Man”, simply meant “the Messiah” and not “God in human form”. That latter interpretation didn’t arise until after the Jesus Sect had begun to well and truly drift from its Jewish roots and would have been incomprehensible and actually abhorrent to Jesus and his first followers.

Christ is the only person who had two natures, fully God and fully man. Seems like you really don’t understand very much of the truth. The New Covenant didn’t drift from Jewish roots, they still exist. The jews are our ancestors in faith. The Kingdom was taken from those, and given to ones with whom it would be fruitful. Can you put new wine in old wineskins? So, from what or whose authority do you get the information to make such claims as you did in your post?

 

[MDK]

I am kind of confused. For I don’t understand why God has revealed so much of himself to someone as unworthy as myself. All I can or hope to do is promote the gospel of his only begotten Son, Christ the Lord.

As for leaving, that will be decided most likely by the moderators of this forum. The last thing I want to do is leave. I was invited here by a catholic brother who I believe see the truth in what I preach. I don’t believe he invited me to convert me.

And know I love you SHW and that is truth.

We wish you would promote the Gospel of Jesus the Christ. So far, you’re promoting your own gospel which cnonflicts with that of Jesus the Christ.

Any Catholic who asked you to come here to share your “truth” has been terribly msiled or is not a very well educated Catholic. If someone called themselves catholic, then they certainly don’t understand the Gospel very well to consider you some kind of “teacher.”

We ask that you do convert to knowing the Gospel of Christ and therefore knowing Christ. This way, you can better love Him, as you better know Him. As of now, you really have a poor understanding of both, considering the revealed truth we have in Christ’s deposit of faith, His teachings and the protection of the Holy Spirit.

 

[DavidChrist]

My husband and I have an acquaintance who is a fallen-away Catholic. He recently claimed that “Jesus never said he was God”. We’re sure this is not true, but would appreciate some citations…

Remember also, that God is confused about himself too because he doesn’t know who He is:

(From allaboutgod.com/names-of-god.htm )

Names of God: A Way to Understand His Nature and Character
The Names of God used in the Bible act as a roadmap for learning about the character of God. Since the Bible is God’s Word to us, the names He chooses in scripture are meant to reveal His true nature to us.

Names of God: His Titles Revealed in Scripture
“ELOHIM” (or Elohay) is the first name for God found in the Bible, and it’s used throughout the Old Testament over 2,300 times. Elohim comes from the Hebrew root meaning “strength” or “power”, and has the unusual characteristic of being plural in form. In Genesis 1:1, we read, “In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.” Right from the start, this plural form for the name of God is used to describe the One God, a mystery that is uncovered throughout the rest of the Bible. Throughout scripture, Elohim is combined with other words to describe certain characteristics of God. Some examples: Elohay Kedem - God of the Beginning: (Deuteronomy 33:27). Elohay Mishpat - God Of Justice: (Isaiah 30:18). Elohay Selichot - God Of Forgiveness: (Nehemiah 9:17). Elohay Marom - God Of Heights: (Micah 6:6). Elohay Mikarov - God Who Is Near: (Jeremiah 23:23). Elohay Mauzi - God Of My Strength: (Psalm 43:2). Elohay Tehilati - God Of My Praise: (Psalm 109:1). Elohay Yishi - God Of My Salvation: (Psalm 18:47, 25:5). Elohim Kedoshim - Holy God: (Leviticus 19:2, Joshua 24:19). Elohim Chaiyim - Living God: (Jeremiah 10:10). Elohay Elohim - God Of Gods: (Deuteronomy 10:17).

“EL” is another name used for God in the Bible, showing up about 200 times in the Old Testament. El is the simple form arising from Elohim, and is often combined with other words for descriptive emphasis. Some examples: El HaNe’eman - The Faithful God: (Deuteronomy 7:9). El HaGadol - The Great God: (Deuteronomy 10:17). El HaKadosh - The Holy God: (Isaiah 5:16). El Yisrael - The God Of Israel: (Psalm 68:35). El HaShamayim - The God Of The Heavens: (Psalm 136:26). El De’ot - The God Of Knowledge: (1 Samuel 2:3). El Emet - The God Of Truth: (Psalm 31:6). El Yeshuati - The God Of My Salvation: (Isaiah 12:2). El Elyon - The Most High God: (Genesis 14:18). Immanu El - God Is With Us: (Isaiah 7:14). El Olam - The God Of Eternity (Genesis 21:33). El Echad - The One God: (Malachi 2:10). “ELAH” is another name for God, used about 70 times in the Old Testament. Again, when combined with other words, we see different attributes of God. Some examples: Elah Yerush’lem - God of Jerusalem: (Ezra 7:19). Elah Yisrael - God of Israel: (Ezra 5:1). Elah Sh’maya - God of Heaven: (Ezra 7:23). Elah Sh’maya V’Arah - God of Heaven and Earth: (Ezra 5:11).

“YHVH” is the Hebrew word that translates as “LORD”. Found more often in the Old Testament than any other name for God (approximately 7,000 times), the title is also referred to as the “Tetragrammaton,” meaning the “The Four Letters”. YHVH comes from the Hebrew verb “to be” and is the special name that God revealed to Moses at the burning bush. “And God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM; and He said, thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you… this is My eternal name, and this is how I am to be recalled for all generations’” (Exodus 3:14-15). Therefore, YHVH declares God’s absolute being - the source of everything, without beginning and without end. Although some pronounce YHVH as “Jehovah” or “Yaweh,” scholars really don’t know the proper pronunciation. The Jews stopped pronouncing this name by about 200 A.D., out of fear of breaking the commandment “You shall not take the name of YHVH your God in vain” (Exodus 20:7). (Today’s rabbis typically use “Adonai” in place of YHVH.) Here are some examples of YHVH used in scripture: YHVH Elohim - LORD God: (Genesis 2:4). YHVH M’kadesh - The LORD Who Makes Holy: (Ezekiel 37:28). YHVH Yireh - The LORD Who Sees/provides: (Genesis 22:14). YHVH Nissi - The LORD My Banner: (Exodus 17:15). YHVH Shalom - The LORD Of Peace: (Judges 6:24). YHVH Tzidkaynu - The LORD Our Righteousness: (Jeremiah 33:16). YHVH O’saynu - The LORD our Maker: (Psalm 95:6).

Names of God: The Lord Revealed in YHVH is the Lord Revealed in Yeshua (Jesus)
The LORD who revealed Himself as YHVH in the Old Testament is revealed as Yeshua (Jesus) in the New Testament. Jesus shares the same attributes as YHVH and clearly claims to be YHVH. In John 8:56-9, Jesus presents himself as the “I AM.” When challenged by some Jewish leaders regarding His claim of seeing Abraham (who lived some 2000 years earlier), Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.” Those Jewish leaders understood that Jesus was claiming to be YHVH. This is clearly established when they tried to stone Him to death for what they considered blasphemy under Jewish Law. In Romans 10:9, Paul declares, “if you confess with your mouth Yeshua as LORD… you shall be saved.” Immediately thereafter, in Romans 10:13, Paul backs up this declaration by quoting the Old Testament, “Whoever will call upon the name of the LORD (YHVH) will be saved” (Joel 2:32). Calling on Yeshua (Jesus) as Lord is the same as calling Him YHVH, because Yeshua (Jesus) is YHVH (LORD), the Messiah foretold throughout the entire Old Testament.

 

[MDK]

Remember also, that God is confused about himself too because he doesn’t know who He is:

(From allaboutgod.com/names-of-god.htm )

…

This is either a very poor joke, heretical, or just plain Blasphemous.

 

[DavidChrist]

This is either a very poor joke, heretical, or just plain Blasphemous.

Who are you to claim blasphemy? God told me to write that comment.

God will send you a sign to make you understand that it is true. Just wait…

 

[ruslan]

 

[maryj]

If you want to resolve that interesting question you first need to ask yourself these questions:

(1) DID he proclaim himself this or was this an accretion to his story added in later decades?
(2) Did the phrase “Son of God” mean to a Jew and Jewish audience then what you seem to think it means - ie God in human form?

The answer to (1) is “We really don’t know”.
The answer to (2) is “No, it didn’t”.

Even if we assume that Jesus did claim to be “the Son of God”, all the evidence indicates that this title, along with “Son of Man”, simply meant “the Messiah” and not “God in human form”. That latter interpretation didn’t arise until after the Jesus Sect had begun to well and truly drift from its Jewish roots and would have been incomprehensible and actually abhorrent to Jesus and his first followers.

NAB Mark 14:61-62 Again the high priest asked Him and said to Him “Are you the Messiah the son of the Blessed One?” Then Jesus answered, " I Am"; and “you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of Heaven”

Do you know the words “I Am”? Go back to the OT and read what God said to Moses at the burning bush.

 

[heiscominginthe]

You believe in a God as you desire, essentially creating God in the image you desire. Anyone can determine that this is wrong, and the result of an errant philosophy, pride rather than humility that Christ asks of us.

Just as the devil went and tempted Jesus and was put in his place by Jesus’s Words, it is written, so will I stand on what is written.

Father forgive him and open up his eyes to your truth and not the teachings of men.

 

[heiscominginthe]

News… God hasn’t revealed truth to you. Better check your “guide” because your “guide” opposes those whom the Holy Spirit protected. I don’t know how you get out of this illusion you’re in, but someday, it will likely be a harsh reality, unfortunately.

Forgive him Father and open his eyes to your truth, not the doctrines of men.

 

[heiscominginthe]

I only wish you had some remote idea of the truth. It would make the conversation much more pleasant, instead of your continued denials of truth.

I tell you that God did not tell you to have a ministry against His teachings, which is what you’re promoting.

God is not a god of confusion, that is why your confusion makes it clear that God is not your god that you listen to… sadly.

Listen to God for a change, for your own good.

As I stated before, if what I post is of a man, then it can be debunked. Yet, if of God, then you find yourself not against man, but against God.

And you are correct, God is not a god of confusion. That is why it amazes me to see so many jubilant in the CC but yet ignorant to the Word of God. I have had so many tell me that God is a mystery and we will not understand the things of God often times, but that in itself is contrary to the Word of God. It is not God who does not want to reveal himself to us. It is the walls we build between ourselves and God through our believing that which is not of God that prevents us from understanding God.

 

[MDK]

Forgive him Father and open his eyes to your truth, not the doctrines of men.

Thanks, but your timing and your sentence structure and capitalization are all poor, though. Please let me help you with your English first…

Forgive him Father. Open his eyes to Your Truth, not the doctrines of men.

Then, as far as your timing, not much I can help you with there… it’s really too late in both cases. Forgiveness has been done in my recent confession just before Easter. Opening of eyes has already done as well, by following those Christ sent in His one Holy Catholic Church, and not following those who protest His Church and arrogantly make their own false doctrines, like Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Right of Private Interpretation, and OSAS.

 

[MDK]

As I stated before, if what I post is of a man, then it can be debunked. Yet, if of God, then you find yourself not against man, but against God.

And you are correct, God is not a god of confusion. That is why it amazes me to see so many jubilant in the CC but yet ignorant to the Word of God. I have had so many tell me that God is a mystery and we will not understand the things of God often times, but that in itself is contrary to the Word of God. It is not God who does not want to reveal himself to us. It is the walls we build between ourselves and God through our believing that which is not of God that prevents us from understanding God.

Your ideas have been routinely and soundly debunked. However, you lack the courage to admit the truth. What are you really afraid of?

To be truly Catholic is to truly know the Truth as revealed.

For you to call the light the darkness is the saddest of all possible things. How will you ever see?

 

[MDK]

Just as the devil went and tempted Jesus and was put in his place by Jesus’s Words, it is written, so will I stand on what is written.

Father forgive him and open up his eyes to your truth and not the teachings of men.

You are very confused indeed. The arrogant in Jesus time called Him a devil. The same is true today, just as Christ told us, if they did it to Him, they would certainly do it to us as well. So, criticism from you is like praise from one who sees truth.

You stand on God’s Holy Word, trampling and stomping out it’s meaning underfoot.

Christ built a Church and not a book. This Church (and not a book) is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. The Bible you trample is a Catholic Book. It was written by Catholics, in the context of Catholicism, for Catholics. The Catholic Church assembled the Scriptures into the Bible. Yet, the Bible doesn’t teach its own truths. As the pillar and bulwark of the truth, the Catholic Church teaches and protects the truths of the Bible. We pray that you will someday understand this and obey Christ, instead of being disobedient and disrespectful of what He established, and attempting denigration of those whom He sent, and His followers.