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Reuben_J
Guest
Who could do that to the Romans? Oh dear. Have you learned your Geography?
But that beside the point. Pilate washed his hand. Look towards the end of all the four Gospels.
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But that beside the point. Pilate washed his hand. Look towards the end of all the four Gospels.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
My suspicion comes from knowing more than enough racists to recognise the language they use. If you are not a racist then I apologise but you have said a number of things that racists use as an excuse for atrocities.
I still stand by my original point. You cannot blame the Jewish people for the persecution brought down upon them.
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TMC
Guest
This thread is a bit ridiculous. There has been persecution from both sides. Given the history of Judaism and Christianity is tough to deny that Jews have gotten the short end of it. If the Jews had the upper hand through more of history would they have treated Christians better? I hope so. But its impossible to glean moral points or seize some kind of moral highground by arguing that one set of bad acts was ‘less bad’ than another set of bad acts. Bad acts can’t be justified or excused by reference to other bad acts.
If a Jew says to me that my people have persecuted his people (and, yes, some have said this to me), my response is “I know, and that was unfortunate and wrong.” Should I demand they admit something to win this concession? It costs me nothing, and does no harm. But I generally refuse to dwell on the intricacies of what may have happened in the past or argue over who did what first or worst.
All we can do today is behave properly today. To the extent we can cast blame or approbrium at anyone, it can only be at people today for things they actually did today. Judging events and people in the past is God’s job, I am confident that it is well within His abilities.
If a Jew says to me that my people have persecuted his people (and, yes, some have said this to me), my response is “I know, and that was unfortunate and wrong.” Should I demand they admit something to win this concession? It costs me nothing, and does no harm. But I generally refuse to dwell on the intricacies of what may have happened in the past or argue over who did what first or worst.
All we can do today is behave properly today. To the extent we can cast blame or approbrium at anyone, it can only be at people today for things they actually did today. Judging events and people in the past is God’s job, I am confident that it is well within His abilities.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Then you generalized.
For all you know I am an Eskimo that does not share the same culture as you.
My whole point was that the Jews were at the wrong place and the wrong time. The fact that they were ‘exclusive’ and successful did not help either. Then you have a person like Hitler.
Now digest carefully what I say before you start calling me a racist.
I am not really interested in the above though. I was more interested in that they believe in the Messiah. Because Jesus was sent to them. Had they been Catholics, who knows,the holocaust might not have happened. What’s wrong in wishing them to believe in Jesus? After all our Christian forefathers were mainly Jews.
I put a smiley
in my first post to show I did not mean harm.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
It would not matter if you were a Masaai tribesman, racism is not unique to one culture.
I appreciate that you may not have meant harm but you cannot deny that the things you said can be construed as racist.
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Lev23
Guest
Rueben, I do see where you are coming from now. But try not to play “what if” when it comes to the Jews. As Christians, we got to remember what St.Paul said to the gentile believers in Messiah Jesus about what is going on now-Then you generalized.
For all you know I am an Eskimo that does not share the same culture as you.
My whole point was that the Jews were at the wrong place and the wrong time. The fact that they were ‘exclusive’ and successful did not help either. Then you have a person like Hitler.
Now digest carefully what I say before you start calling me a racist.
I am not really interested in the above though. I was more interested in that they believe in the Messiah. Because Jesus was sent to them. Had they been Catholics, who knows,the holocaust might not have happened. What’s wrong in wishing them to believe in Jesus? After all our Christian forefathers were mainly Jews.
I put a smiley
Romans 11:30-32
Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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Reuben_J
Guest
I am not a racist. Now I am not at all impressed by you.
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TMC
Guest
Then you generalized.
For all you know I am an Eskimo that does not share the same culture as you.
My whole point was that the Jews were at the wrong place and the wrong time. The fact that they were ‘exclusive’ and successful did not help either. Then you have a person like Hitler.
Now digest carefully what I say before you start calling me a racist.
I am not really interested in the above though. I was more interested in that they believe in the Messiah. Because Jesus was sent to them. Had they been Catholics, who knows,the holocaust might not have happened. What’s wrong in wishing them to believe in Jesus? After all our Christian forefathers were mainly Jews.
I put a smiley
I am not sure what these two posts are trying to say.
Do you (either of you) mean that the Jews were subject to the Holocaust because they rejected Christ? If that is what is meant I disagree strongly.
Lev23 - what do you mean by your reference to Romans and “what is going on now”? Paul was referring pretty specifically to events of his own day, although I agree his words have relevance and meaning to us today. Its not clear what is happening now that you are linking to Romans 11, care to elaborate?
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Reuben_J
Guest
I agree with you on that piece of beautiful scriptural verses.
As I said my fault was that I was frank enough to touch on a taboo subject. I know I have a whole load of you against me. It is sad as Christians we cannot see things lightly in a different way.
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Lev23
Guest
To me-Rueben is playing “what if” all Jews were saved at the time of Hitler. Not to bash Rueban though, we all just need to look to the scriptures for clarity from time to time.
In light of Romans 11:30-32, how can some Christians ask “what if” to all Jews being saved right now when no other ethnic group is 100% saved?
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Reuben_J
Guest
I did not say that the Jews suffered holocaust was due to anything. The point I was trying to say (Did you follow the whole argument?) you had Jews as unique people, ‘exclusive’ and successful perhaps, and then you had Hitler for what he was.
That was supposed to be poking in the ribs things, but well, we should not touched on that, I know.
My intention was to put across the idea, why not they accept Jesus? That’s all. And that suggestion was made in a jest. Thus the smiley.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
I am not trying to impress you, in any case I have work. I might return to this thread later, I may not.
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thomasf
Guest
At this point, I’m kinda sorry I asked to begin with.
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ralphinal
Guest
Don’t be. You had a question that you wanted some answer to. This is one reason that these boards are tricky. Sometimes, emotions run deep. People read things into posts or respond based on outside influences. It is never bad to ask the questions, just be ready to wade through the junk to find the good parts.
Now, for my public service anouncement. EVERYBODY CHILL OUT!!! I am not sure why, but over the last 6 months, there has been an aweful lot of impoliteness, immaturity, and downright jerkocitude in these forums. I am not sure why or how, but hopefully it will pass.
Someone may disagree with you without being a racist or an idiot. Someone may be a racist or an idiot and agree. Please be kind to each other and ask for simple clarification before calling names and such. Overall, most of the posters in this thread have at least presented defenses of thier points of view. We may not agree, and we have the right to refute, but we should not take it personally when this happens and we should not make an intellectual discussion a personal one.
I ask forgiveness of any that I have offended.
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Valke2
Guest
Is that latin?
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ralphinal
Guest
No, it is Ralphism. I am as bad as Snoop Dogg about coining new words for my language. I can go into the etymology if you want
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RomanCrusader
Guest
Historically, from 33 AD to 600 AD, Jews massacred Christians.
There were massacres of Christians by Jews in many instances. In the Najran massacre Jews, led by Dhu Nawas, killed 20,000 Christians and forced thousands more to convert. In the Jerusalem massacres (614) the Jews (aided by pagan Persians) killed around 90,000 Christians. In, Inmester, Syria, a Jewish mob kidnapped a 10 year old Christian boy and crucified him as a sacrifice for the Jewish holiday of Purim. In Alexandria, 410, the Jews tried to massacre the population, but were thankfully stopped by Roman soldiers.
Many of the early martyrs were victims of Jewish persecutions.
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Rachel_Malloy
Guest
This thread is now closed.
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