Jews--Christians--Muslims...same God?

[MissyB786]

You raise very valid points. I think we are all in agreement here.

Missy, with all due respect I think this depends on which Muhammad (p) you believe in. The Muhammad of Bukhari as you know very vindictive and violent. He would have arab tribesmen hunted down, cut their hands and feet, gouge their eyes out and leave them to die. I don’t believe in that Muhammad but sadly that’s what a lot of muslims believe and I don’t blame non-muslims for hating our faith because of this. I believe our Prophet has been abused and slandered not by the christians or jews but by the Muslims who profess to follow him. By Aisha, the 3 Khalifs, the Ummayid and Abbasid dynasties and the their paid scholars and religious figures like Bukhari and Muslim and the founders of the 4 schools. As long as you continue to remain in that faith you are supporting the abuse and slander against our Prophet.

U r welcome to have this discussion on Sunniforum,com but ur claims that Bukhari portrays Islam as such are without any evidence. I came here to give a discussion about Christianity and Islam not about Shiasm and Sunnis.But you are welcome to start a new thread or bring the topic to sunniforum.com, what I have read from Hadiths and the Quran, is he was surrounded by amazing people some of the best after the Prophet(saw) to help him, they spent their wealth and their lives for Allah. Ali(ra) named his sons after these khalifs, in honor of them.

When I read about the love Aisha(ra) had for her husband, she would ask him how was the knot today and he would reply as strong as the first day we married, as little insider joke they had about their love, She is Ummul Mumineed, the mother of the believers and would u insult ur mother? I know about the history but u r welcome to bring this discussion to a new thread or Sunniforum.com. Thank you

 

[famdigy]

U r welcome to have this discussion on Sunniforum,com but ur claims that Bukhari portrays Islam as such are without any evidence. I came here to give a discussion about Christianity and Islam not about Shiasm and Sunnis.But you are welcome to start a new thread or bring the topic to sunniforum.com, what I have read from Hadiths and the Quran, is he was surrounded by amazing people some of the best after the Prophet(saw) to help him, they spent their wealth and their lives for Allah. Ali(ra) named his sons after these khalifs, in honor of them.

When I read about the love Aisha(ra) had for her husband, she would ask him how was the knot today and he would reply as strong as the first day we married, as little insider joke they had about their love, She is Ummul Mumineed, the mother of the believers and would u insult ur mother? I know about the history but u r welcome to bring this discussion to a new thread or Sunniforum.com. Thank you

My apologies to the OP as I didn’t intend to derail the subject but you made some comments that I felt needed to be addressed. There is a single version of Islam that’s always presented to the public. The reality is that we have many versions of Islam and one of them is always obscured and so I’m here to make sure that all points of view are represented. Since you know about the history you probably also know that the title of “mothers of the believers” was given to the wives of the Prophet to prevent people from marrying his wives after him. It is not a title of respect. Besides I did not insult Aisha. Anytime someone objects to her you consider it an insult.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

Thank you, I hope I can continue to have discussions with people here.

Welcome to the website, I hope that you enjoy posting here, although many people here don’t have my experiences. You may receive some ignorant “moon god” statements, but this is reminiscent of some ignorant statements I have heard from Muslims that Christians believe in “three gods.” As I previously said, there is enough ignorance to go around.

Peace be with you :hug1:

 

[J_the_Centrist]

I assure you I am Muslim, and don’t need to hide who I am even if I face persecution for it. I came here for a friendly conversation, but instead when I declare my beliefs people have come to insult me saying I’m a troll and insinuating I am attacking people, which I can’t recall which comment I have said has attacked people. So after this comment, I won’t be coming back to this forum, if you would like to respond to me you can find me on Sunniforum.com.

I think hatred runs both ways. There is a difference between hatred and disagreement in beliefs. Hatred causes you to intentionally hurt and discriminate others, whilst if we disagree on beliefs we can just agree to disagree. I study and work with people of different faiths and just cos I disagree with their faiths does not mean I hate them. Unfortunately people that actually don’t know nething about their religion and only know about their culture will be scared off and hate anything different to them, even if their religion tells them to tolerate others.

Just as Muslims mite think whatever of other faiths, if you actually go to a practicing Muslim they will preach but they know the Quran says there is no compulsion in Religion. We have to respect and treat people of the Book well and not insult anyones belief, disagreeing is not insulting. I shun those that insult other peoples faith, if they wanna disagree, disagree in a civilized manner. I cannot disrespect any of the Judaic and Christian Prophets even Jesus(PBUH) as he is part of our religion, but all too easily people will insult Mohammed(PBUH). So like Christians would say do as Jesus(PBUH) would do, im pretty sure he wudnt insult us, and Muslims would do as Muhammed(PBUH) would do and I know he would not insult people of their faith, he would preach to them but never would he insult them, so I don’t look at people as role models of their religion I look at the founder. **Even I don’t represent my religion, so if I do wrong blame me, not my religion.
**

The word of God written down and put into a book, the words conveyed to a Prophet ie Jesus(PBUH) or Moses(PBUH) or Muhammed(PBUH) eventually the words were gathered and put into a book, Torah, Bible, Quran, hence Muslims call everyone people of the Book.

Just as Jesus(PBUH) was sent to guide the Jewish people, (I know Christians believe he came to die for us, but thats a topic for another discussion, because Muslims believe he didn’t die and God will return him one day), so was Muhammed(PBUH) to guide the Christians and Jewish people. The bible originally written in hebrew, aramaic and greek has been translated and translated from the translations and translated so on and as a result of this continuous process of translation, meaning is lost in the process. ie Chinese whispers, that is my belief, it is not to insult anyone but just giving you a insight into why Muslims believe what they believe.

answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

This blog answers a lot of the translation errors and also sunniforum.com there are some threads.

I believe the old testament is more accurate than the new testament, as Jesus still followed Judaic laws, ie not eating pork etc…

"Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.[Mathew 5:17]

So like the Torah was change, the Bible was sent to renew, and the Bible was change hence the Quran was sent to renew but then God declared He will preserve the Quran, hence we all have the same Quran all over the world and if we do make translations it is from the original arabic.

?sneaky how, and what exactly do we misinterpret of the new testament? please can you clarify so there can be a discussion as opposed to just saying sneaky.

Just to conclude this thread was about whether we worship the same God or not, and I came to clarify we do all worship the same God but have been insulted or attacked or told im attacking people or am a troll or sneaky in the process. Just because I interpret things differently too Christians or Jewish People does not mean I am any of these things.

Thank you.
Regards

I have never heard of Sunniforum.com, I will check it out and I will even tell my Muslim relatives about it because they are Sunni as well. Please continue to post here, if you want to send me personal messages that is fine, take care!

J

 

[MissyB786]

Welcome to the website, I hope that you enjoy posting here, although many people here don’t have my experiences. You may receive some ignorant “moon god” statements, but this is reminiscent of some ignorant statements I have heard from Muslims that Christians believe in “three gods.” As I previously said, there is enough ignorance to go around.

Peace be with you :hug1:

I consider Christianity a monotheistic religion, but im unsure as I know different denominations put focus on different things, for example I know most Christians worship Jesus(PBUH) the son, but r there denominations that focus on the Father.

Personally I believe in a God without a son, but wud be interesting to clarify,

 

[J_the_Centrist]

I consider Christianity a monotheistic religion, but im unsure as I know different denominations put focus on different things, for example I know most Christians worship Jesus(PBUH) the son, but r there denominations that focus on the Father.

Personally I believe in a God without a son, but wud be interesting to clarify,

Most Christians are Trinitarians (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit coexisting as one), there are some who are Unitarians (God as a single Being). Other variations of Christianity include the Mormons, who reflect many of the beliefs that most Christians considered heresy in the second to sixth centuries AD.

There are many other forms of Christianity, but as I said most of us are Trinitarians. The Unitarians are very “liberal” in their interpretations of scripture, even being in favor of changing the definition of marriage, abortion, and even viewing Jesus as a prophet as Muslims do. This is fine for Muslims, but for many of us it is not a very a Christian view of Christ and His mission. Unfortunately this has led to Unitarians being excluded from being viewed as true Christians by many among us (Catholic and non-Catholic alike), this is harmful because it suppresses dialogue.

I hope this clears things up.

Peace be with you

 

[expounder]

I’m getting confused now
Trinitarians believe that God is 3 but is still one entity so if one entity dies then there is no God because their is only one God

 

[jakasaki]

I’m getting confused now
Trinitarians believe that God is 3 but is still one entity so if one entity dies then there is no God because their is only one God

God does not die and will not die

 

[jakasaki]

Hi Pam,

There’s a difference of opinion among us as to what will happen to Christianity after Jesus returns. From the Shia literature it would appear that Christians and Jews will continue to exist until the day of Judgement but they will be a minority and that the Mahdi (as) will Judge their affairs according to their books. I.e. Christians by the Bible and Jews by the Torah

Hi Famdigy,

Since Shia believe the Jews & Christians will continue to exist until the day of Judgement, and they’ll be a minority, the question is:

Who will be the majority according to Shia???

 

[expounder]

God does not die and will not die

agreed, now you just need to explain the concept to me.

You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am (John 14).

So the two of them are not co-equal.

46 About the 9th hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27).

One cannot easily forsake oneself can one! The Father was God of the son. The son was not God of the father.

If it is true that Jesus and God are the same person, then Jesus talked to himself in public, and prayed to himself in private and so was in fact a schizophrenic. This is plainly a false insult both to God and to his Son.

 

[jakasaki]

Christ has 2 natures:

1 human

1 divine

 

[expounder]

Christ has 2 natures:

1 human

1 divine

More detail please

 

[jakasaki]

agreed, now you just need to explain the concept to me.

You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am (John 14).

So the two of them are not co-equal.

If you read Hebrews 2.9 it states that Jesus as he was, was lower than than the angels.

Therefore Christ did not elevate to his full Glory until after the resurrection.

So the passage above is correct. The Father is Greater that Jesus.

 

[jakasaki]

I placed the quote below from my notes - I didn’t record the biblical link:

Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. He was “. . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . .” (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus “emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . .”

Jesus has two natures: divine and human.

Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man.

Jesus is both God and man.

As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father because he had added to Himself human nature:

You can reference Col. 2:9 as I mentioned above.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God.

He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law, namely, all sinners

You can read Galatians 4: 4-5 about that.

 

[expounder]

Why is Jesus said to be then son of God and at the same time God himself?
Unless i’ve got the wrong end of the stick, this isn’t making much sense

 

[MartinJordan]

Why is Jesus said to be then son of God and at the same time God himself?
Unless i’ve got the wrong end of the stick, this isn’t making much sense

First you must understand how Jews from whom we learned there was an God Almighty understood this meaning of Son of God. Then you need to know the history of the Church and the experiences of the Apostles/disciples who lived with Jesus who leaned from him.

Next you need to know the meaning of Begotten. We as Christians profess that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son Of God (the New Testament scripture shows some of this) that means Jesus was uncreated or in other words one with God from the beginning of time. You may be familiar with John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

Thus God sent His Son (through the Holy Spirit incarnate of the Virgin Mary) because God so loved the World. God chose Man (Wo-Man-and a sinless one at that!) to bring his Son into the World so that we know how much God loves us by way of the Lamb of God to be the sacrifice to reconcile God with Man after the sin of Adam. Jesus being the new Adam opening Heaven for mankind once again.

For further understanding you can read the CCC for more in depth understanding or perhaps witness a Mass see how we worship God.

MJ

 

[nmgauss]

God does not die and will not die

Is God a person? Does God exhibit a human personality? Can he become angry and strike out? He sure demonstrated his cruelty when he killed the calf-worshipping Israelites. He authorized Joshua to slaughter the inhabitants of Canaan. Should we humans fear the wrath of God such as is the tradition in Judaism. Jews are more apt to respect God and adhere to the Laws written by Moses and to know the punishment if these laws are violated. This is definitely a different God than that portrayed in the New Testament.

 

[MartinJordan]

Is God a person? Does God exhibit a human personality? Can he become angry and strike out? He sure demonstrated his cruelty when he killed the calf-worshipping Israelites. He authorized Joshua to slaughter the inhabitants of Canaan. Should we humans fear the wrath of God such as is the tradition in Judaism. Jews are more apt to respect God and adhere to the Laws written by Moses and to know the punishment if these laws are violated. This is definitely a different God than that portrayed in the New Testament.

I think Paul already warned to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It is the same God except that he gave one last chance for mankind by sending his Son. Btw God created man. Is he not allowed to what he pleases with his creation?

MJ

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Namely Missy, a sneaky misinterpretation of the New testament is to suggest the comforter is somehow Muhammad which can be easily disproved if your willing to make the argument. Unless you agree that it isn’t Muhammad.

 

[MartinJordan]

IgnatianPhilo:

the comforter is somehow Muhammad which can be easily disproved if your willing to make the argument. Unless you agree that it isn’t Muhammad.

Muslim’s can start the argument…maybe…if any Hadith has any (if at all) passing reference to the Comforter (that Jesus said in “scripture”)that he’s talking about Mohammed.

MJ