Jews who became Catholics: some commonalities

[HashemEchad]

I couldn’t find the testimony you reference because the website is to a publisher’s site for the book. But I can’t see how you can conclude that someone who went to Hebrew school for 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, was not raised in an orthodox household. And certainly, attending Hebrew school for 3 hours a day 5 days a week is not a sign that one s a secular Jew!

I was at the salvationisfromthejews website, he’s got some stories on there (most of them very old but still…)

What annoys me most is when they claim “Oh, I was raised in a strict Chasidic/Orthodox family”, when its obvious they were not. What such people don’t realize is, things they say in their story give the truth away to those of us who truly were raised fully in an Orthodox family and community.

I encounter this problem more with the messianics than with the Catholics, but its still there. Sadly, too many think that attending an Orthodox synagogue once, or as a child a few times, or having had an Orthodox great grandparent, qualifies one to claim to have been “raised an Orthodox Jew”. For that matter, every secular Israeli can claim to “be an Orthodox Jew”, because whenever they go to a synagogue for weddings, funerals or bar mitzvahs, its an Orthodox one because that’s pretty much all they have in Israel.

A truly Orthodox Jew davens three times a day, keeps strictly glatt kosher, is totally shomer Torah, shomer negiah, sends their children to Orthodox day schools, studies in kollel, uses the mikveh when needed, and every second of their day is determined by Jewish Law. And I can assure you that in all my years of doing exit work, *not once did I ever encounter a Jewish convert to any form of Christianity (esp. not one like Catholicism) who came from that *kind of genuine Orthodox background. And even if a Jew from that kind of genuinely Orthodox background wanted to convert for whatever reason, he’d actually be more likely to choose Islam, due to the strong monotheistic stance of that faith (as opposed to Christianity’s questionable monotheism.) The more religious the Jew’s background, the harder it would be for him to swallow the trnitarian belief.

 

[Valke2]

I don’t see a lot of Catholic’s who embrace a specific agenda of converting Jews, so I would agree that most of the suspectible stories come from the Jews for Jesus types. And I agree with your general assesstment. I would also not be surprised if there are orthodox Jews who, not appreciating how they were raised, (who likes to be told they have to behave a certain way?) would abandon their faith, although I think the number that would trade in Judaism for Catholicism would be very small. It is easier to abanone a belief system than to adopt a new one that is so different.

 

[HashemEchad]

I don’t see a lot of Catholic’s who embrace a specific agenda of converting Jews, so I would agree that most of the suspectible stories come from the Jews for Jesus types. And I agree with your general assesstment. I would also not be surprised if there are orthodox Jews who, not appreciating how they were raised, (who likes to be told they have to behave a certain way?) would abandon their faith, although I think the number that would trade in Judaism for Catholicism would be very small. It is easier to abanone a belief system than to adopt a new one that is so different.

I’ve been reading over some more of the “Jews turned Catholic” websites, and I’m sitting here cringing at their erroneous info about Judaism and Jewish customs, laws, etc.

Look at this story: secondexodus.com/html/articles/kosherhamfindschrist.htm

I had to giggle to myself when he kept going on and on about a “moshiach” being on staff of kosher restaurants to supervise the kashrut!!

Evidently, he does not know what every truly religious Jew knows: “moshiach” is Messiah. There is a term for a supervisor of a kosher establishment, but I’m not going to reveal what it is…maybe this guy can go educate himself and find out! The terms sound similar, so he evidently confused them. Thing is, a truly Orthodox Jew would KNOW, and would never confuse the two.

And I notice how we’ve now gone from some claiming to have been “raised Orthodox” to seeming to think they can be Orthodox by osmosis, as if growing up down the street from kosher restaurants bestows some form of Jewish legitimacy. Good grief!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, but we Jews do it all the time with each other.

Perhaps, then, it never occurred to you that assuming it of one who does NOT consider himself/herself Jewish might not endear you to them, either.

I’m a bit puzzled at why, of all the religions you might choose to come in and harrass, you picked Catholicism. It is just as ill-mannered for you to make snide, generalized comments about Jews who have converted to Catholicism as it is for Catholics to make snide, generalized remarks about Jews. If you want to confer with Jews about what you think generalizations about converts to Catholicism should be, then do it. But to come in here and gratuitously insult Catholics is out of line.

 

[HashemEchad]

Perhaps, then, it never occurred to you that assuming it of one who does NOT consider himself/herself Jewish might not endear you to them, either.

I’m a bit puzzled at why, of all the religions you might choose to come in and harrass, you picked Catholicism. It is just as ill-mannered for you to make snide, generalized comments about Jews who have converted to Catholicism as it is for Catholics to make snide, generalized remarks about Jews. If you want to confer with Jews about what you think generalizations about converts to Catholicism should be, then do it. But to come in here and gratuitously insult Catholics is out of line.

I have posted to explain how I first ended up on this site. It had to do with some questions I had about things my late mother told me about Catholic legends (she was a Catholic who converted to Judaism.) I ended up sticking aorund for a bit.

You need to understand something: I do not consider Jews who become Catholics as “Catholics”: they are Jews who apostasized. In the eyes of Judaism, they are no more “Catholic” than a man who puts on woman’s clothing is a woman.

But your religion sees it the same, in reverse: to Catholicism, once someone is baptized a Catholic, they can never be anything else.

So at least we agree on that!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have posted to explain how I first ended up on this site. It had to do with some questions I had about things my late mother told me about Catholic legends (she was a Catholic who converted to Judaism.) I ended up sticking aorund for a bit.

You need to understand something: I do not consider Jews who become Catholics as “Catholics”: they are Jews who apostasized. In the eyes of Judaism, they are no more “Catholic” than a man who puts on woman’s clothing is a woman.

But your religion sees it the same, in reverse: to Catholicism, once someone is baptized a Catholic, they can never be anything else.

So at least we agree on that!

It’s not up to you to decide who is what.

Perhaps you have noticed that no one on here has referred to any “Jewish legends”. You, however, came in here, very first post, rather nastily insulting people who convert from Judaism to Catholicism. You then had the effrontery to suggest that they “die early”, as if you know anything of the sort.

I have no reason to believe that Jews teach their children to go into someone else’s house and be rude to those in whose house they are guests. I doubt it, in fact. I therefore have to conclude that you are self-taught.

 

[Steven_John]

It’s not up to you to decide who is what.

I considered his post be a personal consideration not a Judgment.

Peace and blessings

 

[AlegreFe]

I have posted to explain how I first ended up on this site. It had to do with some questions I had about things my late mother told me about Catholic legends (she was a Catholic who converted to Judaism.) I ended up sticking aorund for a bit.

That is like going backwards. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. So converting to Judaism is like going backwards for a Catholic.

The way that I see it is if your mother was baptized Catholic then she is Catholic, although in name only at this point. Your mother still has that indelible mark on her soul when she was baptized. And if she was also confirmed, she has that mark on her soul that can never be removed. She has that seed planted in her and one day that seed will sprout and she just might come back, or rather go forward in her faith journey. After all, the next step after Judaism is Catholicism.

HashemEchad:

You need to understand something: I do not consider Jews who become Catholics as “Catholics”: they are Jews who apostasized. In the eyes of Judaism, they are no more “Catholic” than a man who puts on woman’s clothing is a woman.

We say the same thing about Catholics.

I just want to make clear that I have every respect for Jewish people. I don’t know how to say this but I feel closer to Jewish people than I do to protestants. I don’t know exactly why. I guess it’s because I know the Christians of the early church were Jews after all. I guess I want to call the Jewish people my cousins or something. I would want to say brothers and sisters but that would be wrong to say because Jews are not Christians. But I would like to say something like close cousins.

 

[AlegreFe]

There is this new series on EWTN (that’s the Catholic channel in case you’re wondering) called The Family Hearth.

The Family Hearth
Brother Bob Fishman, a convert from Judaism and a lay brother in the Franciscan Community of the Brothers and Sisters of Charity, uses the unique method of Jewish oral tradition to bring the teachings and stories of the Bible to life. I love watching this show. It was just on yesterday! He’s on every Monday at 5:30 PM ET, 4:30 PM CT on EWTN.

This man has a good conversion story. From Jerusalem to Rome is a video you can get to see him tell of his conversion story.

This man did not grow up in a religious home but he was Jewish nonetheless. When he started learning about his own Jewish roots he started to recognize some similarites in the Catholic Church. Well he is now Catholic, long story short. You can see the whole story in that video.

 

[AlegreFe]

Our very own Rosalind Moss is a “Hebrew Catholic.” She converted from Judaism to Protestantism to Catholicism. She is now on her journey to becoming a nun, more specifically a Mother, like Mother Angelica! She is starting a religious community of sisters called, Daughters of Mary, Mother of Israel’s Hope.

 

[AlegreFe]

Why would dying “early” be bad if that is God’s will? Suffering happens in this world for a reason. God can bring a greater good out of it for His glorification. When we suffer it purifies us. Perhaps the family members of the ones who died were being pruned by God. I don’t want anyone in my family to die but if it’s God’s will then so be it. I will not get angry at God for taking a loved one away from me. And who are we to say that a death is “premature” or not. Perhaps “premature” only because someone died at a very early age. But God has His own time for everyone to live on this earth. And if God takes someone, I would not call it “premature” because it is God’s will so how could that be “premature.”

 

[wanner47]

I’ve been reading over some more of the “Jews turned Catholic” websites, and I’m sitting here cringing at their erroneous info about Judaism and Jewish customs, laws, etc.

Look at this story: secondexodus.com/html/articles/kosherhamfindschrist.htm

I had to giggle to myself when he kept going on and on about a “moshiach” being on staff of kosher restaurants to supervise the kashrut!!

Evidently, he does not know what every truly religious Jew knows: “moshiach” is Messiah. There is a term for a supervisor of a kosher establishment, but I’m not going to reveal what it is…maybe this guy can go educate himself and find out! The terms sound similar, so he evidently confused them. Thing is, a truly Orthodox Jew would KNOW, and would never confuse the two.

Perhaps he’s just a bad speller. Or it’s possible he mixed up the terms. It doesn’t make him any less Jewish or any less knowledgeable about Judaism; it just means that his literacy skills may not be very proficient. I don’t think that mocking someone’s literacy skills is a very nice thing to do.

 

[Eden]

Some Jews who converted to Catholicism that were not on their deathbeds:

(In the 1940s) "American Hebrew in New York published an interview with Chief Rabbi Israel Zolli of Rome. “The Vatican has always helped the Jews and the Jews are very grateful for the charitable work of the Vatican, all done without distinction of race,” Rabbi Zolli said. After the war, Rabbi Zolli converted to Catholicism, which brought him much severe criticism from some Jews. Dr. Zolli’s conversion was widely attributed to his gratitude for what the Pope did for Jews. In his 1954 memoirs, Before the Dawn, however, Dr. Zolli strongly denied this assertion. Instead, he claimed to have witnessed a vision of Christ, who called him to the faith.

ewtn.com/library/issues/pius12gs.htm

Edith Stein, also, did not convert to Catholicism because she was on her death bed:

“In the midst of all her studies, Edith Stein was searching not only for the truth, but for Truth itself and she found both in the Catholic Church, after reading the autobiography of Saint Teresa of Avila. She was baptized on New Year’s Day, 1922.”

ewtn.com/faith/edith_stein.htm

Ronda Chervin, author of Bread From Heaven: The stories of 23 Jews who found the Messiah in the Catholic Church, on her conversion:

I was born in 1937 to parents who loved and cared for me and my twin-sister, but whose philosophy of life did not allow for any unconditional affirmation of the intrinsic worth of the human person. Part of my conversion at the age of 21 to Catholic Christianity was the recognition that a baby in the womb was more valuable than a book on a shelf.

unbornwordalliance.com/book_foreword.htm

Marty Barrack is another convert from Judaism who was not on his deathbed:

gotruth.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=10

This is obviously just a select handful, but I don’t see a pattern of deathbed conversions, as you do.

 

[wanner47]

Some Jews who converted to Catholicism that were not on their deathbeds:

(In the 1940s) "American Hebrew in New York published an interview with Chief Rabbi Israel Zolli of Rome. “The Vatican has always helped the Jews and the Jews are very grateful for the charitable work of the Vatican, all done without distinction of race,” Rabbi Zolli said. After the war, Rabbi Zolli converted to Catholicism, which brought him much severe criticism from some Jews. Dr. Zolli’s conversion was widely attributed to his gratitude for what the Pope did for Jews. In his 1954 memoirs, Before the Dawn, however, Dr. Zolli strongly denied this assertion. Instead, he claimed to have witnessed a vision of Christ, who called him to the faith.

ewtn.com/library/issues/pius12gs.htm

Edith Stein, also, did not convert to Catholicism because she was on her death bed:

“In the midst of all her studies, Edith Stein was searching not only for the truth, but for Truth itself and she found both in the Catholic Church, after reading the autobiography of Saint Teresa of Avila. She was baptized on New Year’s Day, 1922.”

ewtn.com/faith/edith_stein.htm

Ronda Chervin, author of Bread From Heaven: The stories of 23 Jews who found the Messiah in the Catholic Church, on her conversion:

I was born in 1937 to parents who loved and cared for me and my twin-sister, but whose philosophy of life did not allow for any unconditional affirmation of the intrinsic worth of the human person. Part of my conversion at the age of 21 to Catholic Christianity was the recognition that a baby in the womb was more valuable than a book on a shelf.

unbornwordalliance.com/book_foreword.htm

Marty Barrack is another convert from Judaism who was not on his deathbed:

gotruth.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=10

This is obviously just a select handful, but I don’t see a pattern of deathbed conversions, as you do.

There’s also Dr. Bernard Nathanson, who used to be a preeminent supporter of abortion rights.

 

[Valke2]

Perhaps he’s just a bad speller. Or it’s possible he mixed up the terms. It doesn’t make him any less Jewish or any less knowledgeable about Judaism; it just means that his literacy skills may not be very proficient. I don’t think that mocking someone’s literacy skills is a very nice thing to do.

It seems to me that the story that the link takes you to is painfully fictional and I have to agree with Hashemechad that most of it sounds like it was written by a person who never said three words to a jew or even spent 5 minutes on the internet researching for his/her article. I think a jew would have to be experiencing a huge crisis of faith/identity in order for that story to affect him.

 

[HashemEchad]

It’s not up to you to decide who is what.

Perhaps you have noticed that no one on here has referred to any “Jewish legends”. You, however, came in here, very first post, rather nastily insulting people who convert from Judaism to Catholicism. You then had the effrontery to suggest that they “die early”, as if you know anything of the sort.

I have no reason to believe that Jews teach their children to go into someone else’s house and be rude to those in whose house they are guests. I doubt it, in fact. I therefore have to conclude that you are self-taught.

But there are Jewish legends; many of them. And if someone came to a Jewish forum and asked about them, I’d be more than happy to give them info about them if I knew them.

Funny…I started a thread about old Catholic legends, and no one saw any problem with it. Many contributed legends they themselves had heard, growing up. In fact it was a very fun, enjoyable thread…we discussed everything from one of the legends my Mom had told me about (that it always rains on Good Friday), to a very cute one about flowers and the virgin Mary.

Only you seem to have a problem.

 

[HashemEchad]

That is like going backwards. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. So converting to Judaism is like going backwards for a Catholic.

The way that I see it is if your mother was baptized Catholic then she is Catholic, although in name only at this point. Your mother still has that indelible mark on her soul when she was baptized. And if she was also confirmed, she has that mark on her soul that can never be removed. She has that seed planted in her and one day that seed will sprout and she just might come back, or rather go forward in her faith journey. After all, the next step after Judaism is Catholicism.

We say the same thing about Catholics.

I just want to make clear that I have every respect for Jewish people. I don’t know how to say this but I feel closer to Jewish people than I do to protestants. I don’t know exactly why. I guess it’s because I know the Christians of the early church were Jews after all. I guess I want to call the Jewish people my cousins or something. I would want to say brothers and sisters but that would be wrong to say because Jews are not Christians. But I would like to say something like close cousins.

In Judaism we do not see any other religion as a “fulfillment” of our religion. Our religion is fine in and of itself.

As for my mother, she passed away this past March. My family and I were reniniscing about things she had once told us, which is what prompted my online Googling of some old Holy Week legends she’d told us about, hence my original finding of this site.

 

[HashemEchad]

It seems to me that the story that the link takes you to is painfully fictional and I have to agree with Hashemechad that most of it sounds like it was written by a person who never said three words to a jew or even spent 5 minutes on the internet researching for his/her article. I think a jew would have to be experiencing a huge crisis of faith/identity in order for that story to affect him.

I agree. In fact I tried emailing Mr Barrack but his website email link is not working. I figured I should at least save him further embarassment, and explain that “moshiach” is Hebrew for “messiah” (he did seem to grasp that fact), but that the Hebrew word for a kosher supervisor is different.

The reason I asked about Jewish apostates to Catholicism who seem to die very painful, early deaths is because offline and online, I have read and known of quite a few. I’m not trying to imply that God is punishing them for their apostasy (though anything is possible)…I was thinking more along the lines of: maybe their illnesses prompted them to do a renewed search for spirituality, and that was how they ended up Catholic.

I have known people offline who joined a new religion not long after finding out they had cancer, or after a loved one has died. One former neighbor went from Catholic to JW after her husband died, for example.

 

[Yerusalyim]

While I will gladly share my faith with anyone who asks, and I hope I demonstrate my faith by the way I live, I pretty much concur. The Church teaches that unlike other religions, Judaism is ALREADY a response to the call of God. The Jews are not our cousins, but our Elder Brothers (and sisters) in Faith to God and in response to His call.

 

[HashemEchad]

Jharek, I appreciate your sensitivity as a Catholic; but when it comes to people like “Cathdefender”, actually I grew up around Catholics like that in my old neighborhood…old school, "Jews killed Christ"the types. Fortunately, half my family is Catholic, and so that helped me see that not all Catholics are like that.

But most Jews do not have half of their family as Catholics, and when they encounter Catholics like that, sadly, too often that is the only knowledge they will have.