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HashemEchad
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No, Marty Barrack.
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HashemEchad
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Unfortunately there are Jews who think of themselves as “Orthodox” because a grandparent was, or because the synagogue they attended as children was an Orthodox one. That is not what defines a truly Orthodox Jew, because many Jews (esp. in Europe and Israel, and earlier in the last century in this country) will never be observant, but when they need a rabbi or synagogue will go to an Orthodox one because its the only one nearby, or because they are more familiar with it due to their grandparents, etc In fact the truly Orthodox have a term for Jews like that: “non-observant Orthodox”!
A truly Orthodox Jew is one who fully keeps Jewish Law, day in and day out, all the time.
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Valke2
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Unlike the laws determining who is Jewish, you aren’t an orthodox jew simply because your mother was an orthodox jew. I do see this error made everyone once in a while in testimonies of former Jews who converted to something else. They say they were orthodox because they had an orthodox jew in the family tree. To a Jew who knows anything about their religion, such a statement is ludicrious.
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HashemEchad
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Thanks, my point exactly.
I always wondered why these Jews who go shmad never say, “I was raised a very committed reform Jew”
The reason is obvious: they feel that portraying themselves as being from the strictest sect of Jews gives more weight to their “testimony”. When I see that (and its almost always in the first few lines of their stories), I automatically don’t want to read any more of it.This is why the only Jews they tend to snare are nonreligious Jews, agnostic Jews, secular Jews, or Jews from Orthodox backgrounds with emotional, psychological or familial issues.
But I have to say I have found this same development also in fundamentalists who used to be Catholics. Its always the ones who were never very religious as Catholics, or who were from traditionally Catholic families but had “issues” (mental, familial, personal, etc)
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Lapell
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Hashem Echad, I certainly commend you for having defended the Catholic Church, and am grateful for it. I am sorry you still encounter those kinds of comments.
As for myself, I am only sad at some of your comments about those Jews who freely chose to become Christians (Catholics or of other denominations)… Had Jesus not declared to be equal to God Himself, or had the Jewish authorities and some of the Jewish people of Jesus’ time considered this a blasphemy, had not God kept Himself in a cloud of mystery about Himself before and after that (and all of these could not NOT have happened), I guess all of the Christians would be considered Jews in their own right, a Jewish “sect” if you will, but within Judaism. Our human nature has been forever wounded ever since at least Adam and Eve.
But given what you have done in defense of the Catholic Church as a matter of respect for the truth, I don’t see how you shouldn’t be among the ones reunited with God in the after-life. Even if you hadn’t had done that but always strove for the truth and the best of humanity, well you still will be reunited with God Almighty even then, I am quite sure.
… I think we’re bound to be both in the same “kahal”, ultimately, at least in the Afterlife, if not before. I am looking forward to meet you there, God willing…
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Lapell
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I know you’ve been through comments by Catholics and still are. I would wish they were directed to me instead of to you, if it could ease your situation… But having explored the teachings of the Catholic Church, you now KNOW, don’t you, that those Catholics making comments like those are rather going astray when they do them, they are not in accordance with their Catholic Church then, so please do not regret having defended the Catholic Church herself so many times. Those people, though they were baptized, chose to act in a non-Catholic manner, and so did so many Catholics in the past, even ecclesiastics…
And if you remain a Jewess, under the present condition I don’t have a problem with that. You already know that, I know, but I don’t mind repeating it over and over. The spiritual war won’t end soon here on earth, you already know it, but there WILL be an end to this world. When, I don’t know, and yet I do know it’s a SURE thing. Hashem bless you greatly!
And if you remain a Jewess, under the present condition I don’t have a problem with that. You already know that, I know, but I don’t mind repeating it over and over. The spiritual war won’t end soon here on earth, you already know it, but there WILL be an end to this world. When, I don’t know, and yet I do know it’s a SURE thing. Hashem bless you greatly!
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Cathdefender
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Jewess?
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Lapell
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May I ask you how many of the Catholics of Jewish origin, in the conversion stories collected by Rosalind Moss, Roy Schoeman and Ronda Chervin would fall into such misrepresentation of their own background.Thanks, my point exactly.
I always wondered why these Jews who go shmad never say, “I was raised a very committed reform Jew”
This is why the only Jews they tend to snare are nonreligious Jews, agnostic Jews, secular Jews, or Jews from Orthodox backgrounds with emotional, psychological or familial issues.
But I have to say I have found this same development also in fundamentalists who used to be Catholics. Its always the ones who were never very religious as Catholics, or who were from traditionally Catholic families but had “issues” (mental, familial, personal, etc)
Also, when you mention “truly Orthodox Jews”, it seems quite plausible that someone among those converts could have come from Jewish Orthodox background which do not happen to fall into Chassidic Orthodox or what you consider to be a “truly Orthodox” background (but their former congregation would be called Orthodox)… could it not be?
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Lapell
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Yes, Jewess. Feminine of “Jew”. Never encountered this word before?Jewess?
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Lapell
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You know of some such actual cases?
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Lapell
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Sorry, I hadn’t read the posts before yours, Valke2. Sorry, Hashem Echad… I think I get your point a bit better, both of you.
Still… “Once a Jew, always a Jew!” No?
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HollyDolly
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:coffeeread: Aren’t Orthodox Jews Hassids? I always thought that the Orthodox Jews were members of the Hassidic community, like in the movie A Stranger Among Us,starring melanie Griffth as a detective,who investigates some murders in the community.My sister and I saw it years ago.I remember one of the characters explaining to her about various customs and laws of their community,and hearing the same things from our dad.Though not jewish, my dad and grandpa could speak Yiddish
and grandpa had business and other dealing with jews up in Milwaukee years ago.
And in regards to what you say about non religious jews,I guess in a way that’s true.My dad worked at NSA from 1970 to 1971.
He said on High Holy days you’d see guys running around wearing yamakas,and many of these people he had no idea they were jewish at all,as they never showed any sign that they were of the faith.Same goes true to for other faiths,you never know someone’s a Catholic till you see the ashes on their forehead on Ash Wendsday.
Can’t understand why any jew who converts to Christianity would curse being a jew.After, the first followers of Jesus besides the gentiles He attracted were jews.Nothing wrong with their former faith.Maybe they claim being Orthodox because it sounds more dramatic.
and grandpa had business and other dealing with jews up in Milwaukee years ago.
And in regards to what you say about non religious jews,I guess in a way that’s true.My dad worked at NSA from 1970 to 1971.
He said on High Holy days you’d see guys running around wearing yamakas,and many of these people he had no idea they were jewish at all,as they never showed any sign that they were of the faith.Same goes true to for other faiths,you never know someone’s a Catholic till you see the ashes on their forehead on Ash Wendsday.
Can’t understand why any jew who converts to Christianity would curse being a jew.After, the first followers of Jesus besides the gentiles He attracted were jews.Nothing wrong with their former faith.Maybe they claim being Orthodox because it sounds more dramatic.
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Lapell
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I think it would have to do with all the hardship attached to just being Jewish.
I think that to some among the Jews, it’s something worth hating, I don’t know!
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Lapell
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It might be very important, but I felt bothered because you seemed more interested in belittling their experiences because they happened to have come from Jewish background and became Christians (some of them Catholics)… I don’t think it’s fair, as much as those who call you “Christ killer” aren’t fair to you!
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Lapell
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Of course, your having acted as a countermissionary for so many years king of has instilled those reflexes of yours very deep, so you can’t help them, I suppose…
I still like you, though!
I still like you, though!
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dessert
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Hashem, I too feel your pain, but can not feel exactly what you have gone through or your family as we are all different but yes some common things. When I was in high school many years ago there was a girl in my ninth grade class the teacher made fun of her nose as she was a Jew and did not get it fixed. I felt sorry for her but didn’t understand it. I really didn’t know what was going on so years later when I figured it out I told someone that it was still bothering me so she told authorities and awhile later the teacher was reppremended, even though we were all grown up. Maybe coming back to Judaism, even as a Catholic with the support of our Pope they will bring closure to those things done to them. They maybe never spoke up before but now have a voice, even as a Jewish Catholic.So I know how you maybe see this as a step back but not according to our faith. Closure means to go forward and this is good for you. I came back to my Catholic faith in order for me to go forward, that sounds ironic but this is maybe the way life works. Who knows what life will bring to your family. I’m sure you want to the best and care so much about your family as I can see in your posts. Blessings
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Lapell
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Hum, it’s a nice thing that you’re talking to God like this! (“Hashem”, just like “Adonai”, is a Hebrew name that Jews use instead of the ineffable Name of God. “Hashem” is made of the article “ha” (the) stuck to the word “shem” which means “name”… in this case, since it’s an euphenism for God, of course it will be “the Name”.) Hashem Echad means: “God (the Name) is One”…
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dessert
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I think I read that on another post, thanks for reminding me. What does your name mean?
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Valke2
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Yes. But if I remember correctly, all of such cases were people who were from Jews for Jesus or such groups, and not converts to Catholicism.
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AlegreFe
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I think you would be talking about a Jew who converts to being a non-Catholic Christian.
I have heard Hebrew Catholics, talk highly of their Jewish faith and upbringing. They never seem to put their former faith down. They see the similarities in both faiths. They see the fulfillment of their old faith in the Catholic faith. The same goes for former Protestants who come home to the Catholic Church. They are so grateful for their Christian upbringing in whatever denomination they were. And now they are glad to be Catholics and are so grateful for the Catholic Church.
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