John 6 : 62 & 63 What does this mean?

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Here’s an interesting one:

Isaiah 6
And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!”

6 Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth, and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.”
 
Pax et Bonum! In these verses, I can see Jesus explaining the beginnings of a new covenant - one of the spirit. The apostles of course were used to bread sustaining them as a daily staple and considered their flesh to be fed and cared for, along with their cleansing/purification rituals. Now, suddenly Jesus is telling them this is not so important as is the “spirit” - so would they accept and convert to the new covenant? Some will and some won’t and Jesus knew this. He goes on to explain or teach that in the new covenant, there is still bread - there is still flesh - but now “of the spirit” since he is able to transform it into the bread from heaven being His Body or Flesh and the wine from heaven being His Blood or Sacrifice. This is how the apostles (and us) would partake of Jesus after He had risen. This is the new covenant He made between Heaven and Earth. Hope this helps! angeltime:highprayer:
 
Peter_J said:
Hi all. I just joined this thread and have only read a small fraction of the 78 posts at this point. Can someone fill me in on what church document have been cited thus far?
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I know you didn’t mean Scripture, I’m just messin’. But I’d be happy to see some documents you may be able to provide!
 
angeltime said:
Pax et Bonum! In these verses, I can see Jesus explaining the beginnings of a new covenant - one of the spirit. The apostles of course were used to bread sustaining them as a daily staple and considered their flesh to be fed and cared for, along with their cleansing/purification rituals. Now, suddenly Jesus is telling them this is not so important as is the “spirit” - so would they accept and convert to the new covenant? Some will and some won’t and Jesus knew this. He goes on to explain or teach that in the new covenant, there is still bread - there is still flesh - but now “of the spirit” since he is able to transform it into the bread from heaven being His Body or Flesh and the wine from heaven being His Blood or Sacrifice. This is how the apostles (and us) would partake of Jesus after He had risen. This is the new covenant He made between Heaven and Earth. Hope this helps! angeltime:highprayer:
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Nice post, thanks.
 
Pax et Bonum! We have to keep in mind that this is a “faith journey” and Jesus said, “Blessed are those who believe and have not seen”…it seems this refers to many things Jesus said and did while walking the earth. There is also mention in scripture of those who have a veil over their conscience and they do not understand…So, of course there is mystery to the Last Supper and the words Jesus left us. If there was no mystery, there may be no searching - trust - hope and the gift of faith! “Things of the flesh” refers to the earthy (not earthly) things of this life - that cause obsession, increased sin, greed, lust and more. Keeping our minds and hearts raised to the things of God and the Spirit will help to get us there! angeltime:highprayer:
 
angeltime said:
He goes on to explain or teach that in the new covenant, there is still bread - there is still flesh - but now “of the spirit” since he is able to transform it into the bread from heaven being His Body or Flesh and the wine from heaven being His Blood or Sacrifice. This is how the apostles (and us) would partake of Jesus after He had risen. This is the new covenant He made between Heaven and Earth. Hope this helps! angeltime:highprayer:
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I would appreciate if you could elaborate a bit more on this. Has it then become a spiritual consumption?
 
Pax et Bonum! Better you question a skilled theologian about the Mystical Body of Christ - however I will say that yes, I believe it is a spiritual consumption - food for the soul after the consecration - not flesh for flesh and blood for blood in the human sense although remains the “Real Presence.” I am interested in any further info you find on the topic. God bless, angeltime:highprayer:
 
angeltime said:
… “Things of the flesh” refers to the earthy (not earthly) things of this life - that cause obsession, increased sin, greed, lust and more. Keeping our minds and hearts raised to the things of God and the Spirit will help to get us there! angeltime:highprayer:
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If you discern the body (flesh and blood) of Christ, you will find nothing carnal or un-spiritual. There was no duplicity in Him. There was no sin. You will find God, and the Salvation of mankind. He IS the bread of heaven. He did not just give bread through His words, but His deeds. He feeds us with His body, mind and soul.

The life of the Spirit is in His blood. The Father set His seal on the Son.
 
Wannano said:
I would appreciate if you could elaborate a bit more on this. Has it then become a spiritual consumption?
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“It is the spirit that gives life, while the** flesh is of no avail**. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” John 6:63

Jesus is speaking about spiritual things like changing the bread and wine into his spiritual body. The flesh (carnal minded and using human reason) is of no avail in trying to understand this, just look at all the people saying this was cannibalism.
 
Techno2000 said:
“It is the spirit that gives life, while the** flesh is of no avail**. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” John 6:63

Jesus is speaking about spiritual things like changing the bread and wine into his spiritual body. The flesh (carnal minded and using human reason) is of no avail in trying to understand this, just look at all the people saying this was cannibalism.
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We believe Jesus is talking about believing in Him, here. The Spirit gives understanding of Who Jesus is. And I ask you… Is the flesh and blood of Jesus “of no avail”?
 
rcwitness said:
We believe Jesus is talking about believing in Him, here. The Spirit gives understanding of Who Jesus is. And I ask you… Is the flesh and blood of Jesus “of no avail”?
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No, of course not, that is absolutely not what I’m talking about. I’m taking about the Flesh in the biblical sense which is to be carnal minded, this is of no avail in trying to understand the supernatural which Jesus was trying to explain.
 
Techno2000 said:
No, of course not, that is absolutely not what I’m talking about. I’m taking about the Flesh in the biblical sense which is to be carnal minded, this is of no avail in trying to understand the supernatural which Jesus was trying to explain.
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Ok. Sorry, I was a little misunderstood for a moment. I realized that after I posted.
 
angeltime said:
Pax et Bonum! Better you question a skilled theologian about the Mystical Body of Christ - however I will say that yes, I believe it is a spiritual consumption - food for the soul after the consecration - not flesh for flesh and blood for blood in the human sense although remains the “Real Presence.” I am interested in any further info you find on the topic. God bless, angeltime:highprayer:
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Thank you angeltime, I know a priest that I have a lot of admiration for. I think I will ask him to lunch sometime soon. Trouble is he lives 60 miles away.

I have been told by another poster here that I do not accept God Himself because I have trouble understanding some things and I have experienced that to be very hurtful as I do have a relationship with Christ that is very meaningful. Sometimes people like you who do not pretend to have all the answers are more effective in communicating small truths that resonate with the seeker than those who “know it all” and castigate you for asking what may be seemingly dumb questions. To see that it is or may be a spiritual consumption shines more light on the subject for me. So, thank you.

Do you think that the disciples who left Jesus understood the spiritual meaning? Just wondering how you perceive that.
 
rcwitness said:
If you discern the body (flesh and blood) of Christ, you will find nothing carnal or un-spiritual. There was no duplicity in Him. There was no sin. You will find God, and the Salvation of mankind. He IS the bread of heaven. He did not just give bread through His words, but His deeds. He feeds us with His body, mind and soul.

The life of the Spirit is in His blood. The Father set His seal on the Son.
Click to expand...
I believe that what you present here is foundational. He IS the Bread of Heaven.
 
These two verses, in particular, are addressing the fact that Jesus came from heaven, and the belief in that. Those who believe in that should be able to understand that His flesh and blood is one with the Spirit. His flesh and blood does as the Spirit does. When we take Communion, we are allowing this faith to act fully in us We are not accepting Jesus’ words as life, but also His actual flesh and blood (temple) as the Sacrifice. So we are then able to be in full Communion with God and brother. Those who have separated themselves from this Communion are participating in an imperfect faith. But merely participating in this Communion (without belief) is not assenting to the faith either. Judas is the prime example of this.

It is this Scripture, combined with the whole sense of Scripture, that shows us how profound the Lord’s Supper is meant to be upheld. Jesus intended, from the beginning, for this meal to hold the fullness of the Christian life. And the Spirit unlocks, or reveals to us, the hidden treasures of Himself.
 
Wannano said:
I have been told by another poster here that I do not accept God Himself because I have trouble understanding some things and I have experienced that to be very hurtful as I do have a relationship with Christ that is very meaningful.
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I believe you accept many things of God. And unto belief and His Baptism. I say to anyone who does not receive the Catholic Communion, that the Spirit who Baptized them is drawing them to this Communion. Not because of the body of members, but because the body of Jesus.
Sometimes people like you who do not pretend to have all the answers are more effective in communicating small truths that resonate with the seeker than those who “know it all” and castigate you for asking what may be seemingly dumb questions. To see that it is or may be a spiritual consumption shines more light on the subject for me. So, thank you.
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His real flesh and blood is Spiritual, since He descended from heaven and was obedient to the Father in all things.
Do you think that the disciples who left Jesus understood the spiritual meaning? Just wondering how you perceive that.
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The disciples who left Him, did not believe He descended from heaven. This is why He said, “And what if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He came from?”
 
Techno2000 said:
No, of course not, that is absolutely not what I’m talking about. I’m taking about the Flesh in the biblical sense which is to be carnal minded, this is of no avail in trying to understand the supernatural which Jesus was trying to explain.
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I am with both you and rc then if this is how you see it. My unanswered question (so far) is did the disciples who left Jesus understand only through the lenses of flesh or carnality? Or did they understand it spiritually and still left?
 
Wannano said:
I am with both you and rc then if this is how you see it. My unanswered question (so far) is did the disciples who left Jesus understand only through the lenses of flesh or carnality? Or did they understand it spiritually and still left?
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No, they certainly did not understand through the Spirit! Peter did. Did Peter know how Jesus would give His flesh and blood to eat? No. Peter did not understand that Jesus would suffer death as the Lamb of God. Peter had to walk in faith and receive Jesus’ life as Jesus delivered.
 
rcwitness said:
These two verses, in particular, are addressing the fact that Jesus came from heaven, and the belief in that. Those who believe in that should be able to understand that His flesh and blood is one with the Spirit. His flesh and blood does as the Spirit does. When we take Communion, we are allowing this faith to act fully in us We are not accepting Jesus’ words as life, but also His actual flesh and blood (temple) as the Sacrifice. So we are then able to be in full Communion with God and brother. Those who have separated themselves from this Communion are participating in an imperfect faith. But merely participating in this Communion (without belief) is not assenting to the faith either. Judas is the prime example of this.

It is this Scripture, combined with the whole sense of Scripture, that shows us how profound the Lord’s Supper is meant to be upheld. Jesus intended, from the beginning, for this meal to hold the fullness of the Christian life. And the Spirit unlocks, or reveals to us, the hidden treasures of Himself.
Click to expand...
When I read how you describe all this I wonder why we all think we are so far apart.
 
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