John Hagee's praise of Mary- Mother of God

[Marybeloved]

Marybeloved—

That man you saw on TV would have repulsed me, too. Whatever the exact nature of the relationship was between Mary and Joseph after Jesus birth, his crudely expressed opinion was out of line.

You’re right- Way out of line. And I’ve debated this thing before without feeling that there was disrespect. Like I’ve said before, I really don’t like John Haggee- the way he speaks about our church is just not nice- at least in tone “The Roman church” he says when he speaks about our judgment at the end of time for harming the apple of God’s eye (The Jews) etc. I also know his wife was Catholic before she became a member of his former church and I’ve heard her speak about it as “becoming a Christian”, clearly indicating that being Catholic is not being Christian.

But his sermon on the Virgin that I saw really did warm me up. It was true respect and reverence like I hope Protestants would (or do) give her. You could tell he saw her as Blessed and righteous and beautiful. That made me very happy .

 

[JustaServant]

I once heard this preacher on TBN or God TV or one of those channels- can’t remember. He a black preacher and the congregation was quite a big group too. Too bad I don’t know him so well- I don’t think he’s one of the big ones though, like TD Jakes or the one involved with the sex scandal (Eddie someone) It wasn’t a preacher I knew.

He was preaching about the Birth of Christ (It was not Christmas, though) and came upon the subject of Mary conceiving and giving birth a Virgin- clearly stressing that Christ had no earthly Father. Then he took a tangent and started speaking about “after” the birth of Christ and the fact that the Bible said (supposedly) that she did not remain a virgin after. Now, that’s kinda OK- I know most Protestants believe that our Lady had other children after Christ- his brethren. So no biggie. But the manner in which he continued to stress that point just made me sick.

He said something which I think was intended to make the congregation laugh, cheer or make those shouts like when someone gives a really good word etc. He said that he just had to tell the Catholics that while the Holy Spirit came upon Mary- That wasn’t the only thing that ever “came upon” her. Then, grinning in a manner almost like a stand-up comic, he said that Joseph definitely “came upon” her for sure…something to that effect. And the congregation was laughing, cheering as if he had just given “a word”. I just switched the channels immediately.

Sometimes the manner in which some people express their rejection of Catholic doctrines on Mary is such that for a catholic it’s the most disrespectful thing. One figures you can just say Mary and Joseph had children after Christ- I’ve heard it expressed and argued very respectfully- But some honestly come very close to Blasphemy.

Which is why, even when I was evangelical, I limited myself to Charles Stanley, the late Adiran Rogers, or one of the more adult preachers.
Any normal church board would have called this dude on the carpet for a ‘joke’ like that.

 

[Kristin234]

Since in my experience, protestants typically spit on statues of Mary and call her “nothing but a vessel”, if that is their definition of “highly revered”, it’s no wonder they think Catholics worship her.

I am a protestant and I have never ever seen or heard of anyone doing/saying such things. How could we not respect her when Jesus himself respected her? She was an amazing woman whom God chose and entrusted above all to care for Jesus. Yes, we might not mention her at every church service and we might not have statues of her, but that definitely does not mean we hate her. I would be disgusted and ashamed if anyone I know ever spit on her statue.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hi Gary,
From a Lutheran view:
1st, we are aware and believe that the Blessed Virgin and the saints in Heaven pray (intercede) for the Church Militant. They do this, not becuase of our prayers (requests) that they do so, but because of their love of Christ, and His Church, the congregation of believers.
2nd, there is not in scripture a command for us to invoke the saints in heaven, a promise regarding invocation, or a example of it (except perhaps 2 Macc.).
3rd, knowing well that the saints in Heaven do pray of us, there is nothing wrong with praying, “Hear their Prayers”, just as we say, “Hear our Prayers”. I. personally have done this regarding St. Peregrine, in response to my cancer diagnosis some 6 years ago.

Jon

Hey if we all believe to this point I’m fine. Invoked, no, intercession is at Gods will without a doubt. I just send up my prayers to the Lord through them Jon, its Gods will whats done with them. However, I pray directly to the Lord also. Reverence through the Saints is really what it is.

Peace

 

[Luvtosew]

Which is why, even when I was evangelical, I limited myself to Charles Stanley, the late Adiran Rogers, or one of the more adult preachers.
Any normal church board would have called this dude on the carpet for a ‘joke’ like that.

I really like Charles Stanley also.

 

[Luvtosew]

If John Hagee told me the sun had risen, I’d open the door and look outside. Back in my evangelical Protestant days I used to watch him from time to time, until I caught him in an egregious, totally unnecessary lie.

and what excately was the lie, might I ask??

 

[oletommyboy]

Hagee is a heretic, plain and simple. Anything he says, even that which appears positive, is a trick to lure people weak in their faith to leave the true Church.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

Yes, I agree that was a very beautiful thing John Hagee said.

I use to listen to him off and on until I heard that he was buying into Chrislam doctrine. At first I found that hard to believe since I originally was directed to John from listening to Glen Beck, a fine American.

However I also listen to worldviewweekend.com on the NRB channel and they made a good argument that John Hagee was sacrificing sound doctrine for accommodation. I’m no expert and never could ID any obvious departures from doctrine.

I’ve listened to another fine American, Jack Van Impe almost forever and he fired the first shot against the heresy of the Chrislamist and consequently left the TBN network over this. He names names and is quick to throw down against those manna worshiping TV ministers that will lay down with lying Islamist lovers to keep the false peace of pro$perity.

As far as the anti-Catholic agenda goes John MacArthur is supposed to be one of the leaders of the pack but I’ve yet to ID anything specific and he remains one of my favorite speakers on matters of living the faith.

The poster that commented the speaker that is half right is also half wrong is absolutely correct. So we as Catholics don’t want to forget that we get out spiritual marching orders from Rome.

 

[oletommyboy]

youtu.be/OygDw2m3z4U

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Since in my experience, protestants typically spit on statues of Mary and call her “nothing but a vessel”, if that is their definition of “highly revered”, it’s no wonder they think Catholics worship her.

Sorry, I don’t believe you.
I’ve grown up my entire life with these “Protestants” and I’ve never witnessed anything like this.

Seeing some unidentified black preacher destroying a statute of Mary does not qualify.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

oletommyboy said: Hagee is a heretic, plain and simple. Anything he says, even that which appears positive, is a trick to lure people weak in their faith to leave the true Church.

The problem with some Catholics and non Catholics alike is that they think that they will be judged on their religion and theology, where in reality you and I will be judged on how much we have loved with the light of faith that we were blessed with. John Hagee probably has a greater chance of making it to heaven than many Catholics who know true theology inside out. It’s not what we know but what we do that counts…

 

[oletommyboy]

The problem with some Catholics and non Catholics alike is that they think that they will be judged on their religion and theology, where in reality you and I will be judged on how much we have loved with the light of faith that we were blessed with. John Hagee probably has a greater chance of making it to heaven than many Catholics who know true theology inside out. It’s not what we know but what we do that counts…

Your religion and theology are what help teach and grow ones faith. Without them you could not be Catholic or whatever else someone chooses to subscribe to because it is theology that separates the other churches from the one, true Church. To say otherwise would mean that your faith alone could save you and this is itself against the teaching of the Catholic Church! To not call someone a heretic for openly attacking the Church, when that person could lead others into sin is possibly being an accomplice to sin which I cannot do that in my faith.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Your religion and theology are what help teach and grow ones faith. Without them you could not be Catholic or whatever else someone chooses to subscribe to because it is theology that separates the other churches from the one, true Church. To say otherwise would mean that your faith alone could save you and this is itself against the teaching of the Catholic Church! To not call someone a heretic for openly attacking the Church, when that person could lead others into sin is possibly being an accomplice to sin which I cannot do that in my faith.

First understand what a heretic is. A heretic is a Catholic who excommunicates himself from the Catholic Church for teaching heresy. John Hagee is merely the product of what bad Catholics did long ago. Secondly, Catholics who are lured away from the Catholic Church are obviously not very good Catholics, if they were, they would know better than to leave the Church. Third; the fact that the Catholic Church teaches the truth merely means that Catholics will be held to a much higher standard at Judgment Day, because those to whom much was given, much will be required.

Therefore, Catholics have the vast treasures of grace at their disposal in overflowing measures, thus the woes go to Catholics if they are not more righteous and more holy than those who do not have these treasures of grace. It is that the lukewarm will be vomited out, and I would think that there are more lukewarm Catholics than anything else, being that 50% of Catholics support abortion rights, and just as many Catholics get divorced as non-Catholics, and 90% of Catholics practice artificial contraception, which is strictly forbidden by the Catholic Church.

I admire a practicing Muslim more than I admire a non-practicing Catholic—at least the Muslim is serving God as he understands. I also admire people like Tim Tebow, who is not Catholic yet is not afraid to speak the name of Jesus and state in public that everything he does is for the glory of God, encouraging closet Christians to not be ashamed of the name of Jesus Christ…

“What does it avail thee, to discourse profoundly on the Trinity, if you are void of humility, and consequently displeasing to the Trinity? In truth, sublime words do not make a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him dear to God. I much rather feel compunction of heart than to know its definition…” The Imitation of Christ, Chapter 1

 

[oletommyboy]

First understand what a heretic is. A heretic is a Catholic who excommunicates himself from the Catholic Church for teaching heresy.

Uh, only partly true.
her·e·tic   [n. her-i-tik; adj. her-i-tik, huh-ret-ik] noun
1.a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.
2.Roman Catholic Church . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.
3.anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

Your definition only applies in 1 of 3 instances. Mine applies in 2. The problem today is so many people are wishy washy about their faith. They pick and choose what they like and discard everything else. If anyone attacks the Church then they work for the evil one and have to be called out. If you dont like that stance then…tough.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

her·e·tic   [n. her-i-tik; adj. her-i-tik, huh-ret-ik] noun
1.a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.

Today the term is freely used, thus a Catholic could be considered a heretic to non-Catholic Christian groups. But the true sense of the word is one who breaks away from the teachings of the True Church. Thus men like Martin Luther and John Calvin, who were both Catholic, became true heretics, as your definition #2 describes:

2.Roman Catholic Church . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.

Today the word is misused, and a faithful Catholic cannot be a true heretic regardless how many non Catholics may call him one…

If anyone attacks the Church then they work for the evil one and have to be called out. If you dont like that stance then…tough.

Obviously one who attacks the Church is doing the devils work; but it’s one thing to do the devil’s work knowingly and quite another to do it it of ignorance. Thus Jesus Christ Himself prayed to the Father to forgive his executioners because they didn’t know what they were doing.

Again, you being a Catholic are like one who has been given a great treasure which John Hagee does not have. We are to share the light you were freely given, not condemn those who do not have the light you have. But If you really want to enlighten John Hagee, offer up your fasts, sacrifices and prayers that he may see the light. After all, God chose Paul, who persecuted Christians, to become a greatest evangelist to the world. So yes, we need people like Hagee to see the light so that he may be a formidable Catholic with the fountain of grace received through the Seven Sacraments…

 

[hooper496]

It is not uncommon to see displays or hear things similar in vulgarity as spitting. I used to do it myself. Jokes galore with the Blessed Virgin as the punchline. Nothing was off limits, even when it reached the level of outright blasphemy. Hatred of the Church is personified in hatred of Mary.

…

For the more traditional Protestant denominations, it is often just glossed over. The virginity aspect prior to Christ being begotten is obviously not usually in question. Nor, really, is the question finding need of an answer in most Protestant doctrine dealing with Christology.

It is with a decreasingly heavy heart that I pray the Hail Mary.

Slowly, I am coming to love Mary, or rather, allowing myself to feel the love she has always provided.

But don’t be fooled by seemingly true praise of Mary by these people. There is simply no way they can face the truth of Mary without facing the falsity of their own beliefs about the Church.

If one truly hates the Catholic Church, it will be manifest in displays of hatred for Mary.

Edit to add:

Don’t base your defense against what I’ve said entirely on traditionally Protestant denominations, i.e. Lutherans, etc.

While those original rebels may have a cornered market on denominational names, they simply do not have the active numbers. They have a great appearance of presence, but, no real presence at all. What areas are truly active are generally the more liberal, open, and accepting type. By accepting, I don’t mean truly loving. If anything, their refusal to admonish sinners of sin is disdainful and totally NOT charitable. The numbers are mainly with the mega-church, and varied non-denominational. The average start up non-denominational church, generally associated with some non-authoritative conference, Bible school, or Bible camp, have the numbers. The smaller ones easily outnumber more established Catholic parishes in regard to attendance. Some of these may or may not identify with Baptists, depending on the geographical region. The old guard Baptist church is really dying and being replaced by the new style.

I recently did a search on the Brown Scapular and came across this little gem, a blog entry dedicated to decrying our Catholic belief in Mary and such things as the Rosary and Scapular.

ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/pope-wearing-a-scapular-is-sign-of-unity-with-jesus-and-mary/

I made the dubious decision to attempt to refute some of the outrageous claims made on this site about “The Catholic Mary” and all of the other things. It really saddened me that people could believe such things. My comments are posted under “Jim H.”. In the end, I was called a Messenger of the Devil, etc., etc. and dismissed. The moderator refused to accept my last posting.

I suspect that my zeal about Mary and Catholicism probably was way too enthusiastic and not humble enough.

Please pray for these people and for me.

 

[mark_a]

I like to listen to John Hagee now and then, I’ve never heard him save anything anti-CathoIic but don’t listen to him regularly , I do agree one needs to be picky of the ones on TBN.

Didn’t John McCain reject Hagee’s endorsement in the 08 campaign due to his anti Catholic rhetoric?

 

[jonbhorton]

Didn’t John McCain reject Hagee’s endorsement in the 08 campaign due to his anti Catholic rhetoric?

Link to article

McCain rejected Hagee’s endorsement, as well as another pastor’s, because of their beliefs, but not all anti-Catholic.

McCain later also repudiated the support of Rod Parsley, an Ohio preacher who has called Islam an inherantly violent religion.
…

McCain told CNN’s Brian Todd that he rejected Hagee’s endorsement after Todd brought to his attention Hagee’s comments that Adolf Hitler had been fulfilling God’s will by hastening the desire of Jews to return to Israel in accordance with biblical prophecy.

The Arizona senator had renounced comments from Hagee that termed the Catholic Church “the great whore” and “an apostate church.”

There was another reason, a more politically expedient one, but I’ll let you read the article to get that so I don’t encroach on politics explicitly.

 

[DaveBj]

and what excately was the lie, might I ask??

He was delivering a message on the dangers of Islam (a subject about which he and I are in agreement, but never mind). He included some video clips of mosque sermons with virulent anti-American, anti-Christian, and anti-Israel comments. Several times he stated that these videos had been taken by undercover or secret cameras smuggled into the Friday prayer services. However, in the lower right or left corners you could see logos, like the yellow rectangle of the NatGeo Wild channel that’s on right now. I recognized some of the logos as belonging to ordinary Arabic television channels that I had tuned across during my time in a couple Middle Eastern capitals.

In other words, the videos had not been taken by intrepid Christians smuggling cameras into Friday prayer sevices. They had been video-taped on ordinary VCRs during public broadcasts of the Friday services.

The man told a blatant lie, apparently just to make things seem a little more dramatic.

 

[4Squarebaby]

I once heard this preacher on TBN or God TV or one of those channels- can’t remember. He a black preacher and the congregation was quite a big group too. Too bad I don’t know him so well- I don’t think he’s one of the big ones though, like TD Jakes or the one involved with the sex scandal (Eddie someone) It wasn’t a preacher I knew.

.

Bishop Eddie Long of The New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in the suburbs of Atlanta Georgia