John Lennon’s Imagine is ‘heart-chilling’, says bishop in Christmas homily

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As a huge Beatles fan, I’d have to say I agree. John Lennon’s views on religion and politics were pretty bad.

One of the reasons I’m a little more of a Paul McCartney fan 😉
I’m a Beatles fan, too. I think even Lennon realized he was getting whack; I recently saw a Beatles documentary in which one of his colleagues said that John was getting to a point at thinking of his earlier views as juvenile foolishness.
 
Agreed. He was toning down; he had completely stopped the sniping with McCartney by the time he died; in fact that had stopped years earlier. He was getting older and reevaluating things. Just found this little piece published last December 2014 on the anniversary of Lennon’s murder - comments from McCartney.
McCartney, who was criticized at the time for his seemingly glib remark, “It’s a drag, innit?” when asked for his reaction to the news, remembers being unable to process the loss for quite some time.
“I was at home, and I got a phone call. It was early in the morning. … It was just so horrific. You couldn’t take it in, and I couldn’t take it in,” he said.
He had known Lennon since 1957, when both were teenagers, and thought of them like brothers – a comparison Lennon agreed with.
“He’s like a brother. I love him,” Lennon said in his last interview. “Families – we certainly have our ups and downs and our quarrels. But at the end of the day, when it’s all said and done, I would do anything for him, and I think he would do anything for me.”
McCartney takes some comfort in the knowledge that he and Lennon, who had sniped at each other following the Beatles’ split in 1970, had gotten to be friends again before Lennon’s death.
“I’m so glad, because it would have been the worst thing in the world to have this great relationship that then soured and he gets killed, so there was some solace in the fact that we got back together. We were good friends,” McCartney said. “The story about the break-up, it’s true, but it’s not the main bit. The main bit was the affection.”
cnn.com/2014/12/08/showbiz/music/mccartney-lennon-anniversary/
 
Some say he had a change of heart in the end and wrote the following lyrics to a song titled “Help Me to Help Myself” just before he was killed. I hope so.

Well, I tried so hard to stay alive
But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin’ me all around
But I know in my heart
That we never really parted, oh no

They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves
So I’m asking this question in the hope that you’ll be kind
'Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied, oh no

Lord, help me, Lord
Please, help me, Lord, yeah yeah yeah
Help me to help myself
Help me to help myself

Songwriters
LENNON, JOHN

Read more: John Lennon - Help Me To Help Myself Lyrics | MetroLyrics
 
Some say he had a change of heart in the end and wrote the following lyrics to a song titled “Help Me to Help Myself” just before he was killed. I hope so.

Well, I tried so hard to stay alive
But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin’ me all around
But I know in my heart
That we never really parted, oh no

They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves
So I’m asking this question in the hope that you’ll be kind
'Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied, oh no

Lord, help me, Lord
Please, help me, Lord, yeah yeah yeah
Help me to help myself
Help me to help myself

Songwriters
LENNON, JOHN

Read more: John Lennon - Help Me To Help Myself Lyrics | MetroLyrics
interesting stuff. I think part of John’s 1970s stuff was part of a general effort to throw ice water on the whole Beatles era, Beatles identity and move on, and what can pop stars do, perhaps he thought, as they get old? Become artists? The Viet Nam War, too, influenced his actions then, and he certainly deserves some credit for trying to take his fame and put it to what he saw as a good purpose in trying to help end the war.
 
Some say he had a change of heart in the end and wrote the following lyrics to a song titled “Help Me to Help Myself” just before he was killed. I hope so.

Well, I tried so hard to stay alive
But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin’ me all around
But I know in my heart
That we never really parted, oh no

They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves
So I’m asking this question in the hope that you’ll be kind
'Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied, oh no

Lord, help me, Lord
Please, help me, Lord, yeah yeah yeah
Help me to help myself
Help me to help myself

Songwriters
LENNON, JOHN

Read more: John Lennon - Help Me To Help Myself Lyrics | MetroLyrics
That is helpful, he did change through the years. He was such a house-husband though, he really was dominated by his wife even if any decent recording by him would almost assuredly become a million-seller. I really like the beat of some of his more “upbeat” songs which largely leaves many of his “introspective songs” like Imagine out of the picture.
 
You see those big red double-decker buses and…

Oh, what am I talking about? I thought of this thread, I’ve been peaking into the live web cam of Abbey Road some lately, interesting. FollowingChrist34 might find this interesting. They are in London about 5 or 6 hours ahead of the Eastern Time Zone, I’ve seen joggers, a bit interesting.

abbeyroad.com/Crossing

England is suppose to have CCTV, close-circuit TV about everywhere.
 
You see those big red double-decker buses and…

Oh, what am I talking about? I thought of this thread, I’ve been peaking into the live web cam of Abbey Road some lately, interesting. FollowingChrist34 might find this interesting. They are in London about 5 or 6 hours ahead of the Eastern Time Zone, I’ve seen joggers, a bit interesting.

abbeyroad.com/Crossing

England is suppose to have CCTV, close-circuit TV about everywhere.
Thanks, Path_Finder. I don’t have the plug in to view it. No worries. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The original suits me fine.

View attachment 21545
 
You see those big red double-decker buses and…

Oh, what am I talking about? I thought of this thread, I’ve been peaking into the live web cam of Abbey Road some lately, interesting. FollowingChrist34 might find this interesting. They are in London about 5 or 6 hours ahead of the Eastern Time Zone, I’ve seen joggers, a bit interesting.

abbeyroad.com/Crossing

England is suppose to have CCTV, close-circuit TV about everywhere.
That’s great!😃 Many thanks, I’ve now got that bookmarked!👍 Plus, you can even eavesdrop on people walking by….

By the way, have you ever messed around with this search engine?
shodanhq.com/
There are ways to do the same thing with CCTV cameras virtually anywhere you choose, if you’ve got the hacking skills.
 
I have to agree, it bothers me that this song is so popular, even among Christians. It’s explicitly anti-religious.

Anyone who thinks that religion is the cause of all the world’s violence needs to take a closer look at history… people fight over land, resources, race, cultural differences, ideological and political differences, heck, even family disputes. It is also tremendously often the cause that even religious wars are fueled by a greedy ulterior motive.
 
Finally someone has the gumption to tell it like it is.

Whatever the social protest mentality that led to this song, it was a paean to atheism and communism.
**
I honestly don’t know why nonatheists and noncommunists love it so much, except the romanticization of the Beatles and the sixties generally.**

ICXC NIKA.
That is exactly what it is, nothing more. Most people don’t listen to the actual lyrics and what they are saying.
 
I haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me if I’m repeating some one else or myself. I can’t claim to be a Beattles fan but I have always taken this song as a song speaking out against those who try to use religion to control people or use religion to do unspeakable acts of violence against others or to use religion to try and justify themselves or portray themselves as being religiouse and holy while nurturing a contemptuous attitude against any one who is not as religiouse and holy as themselves. Or using religion to justify not respecting another’s dignity as being made in God’s image and likeness by badgering, bullying, taunting, gas lighting, or condemning others because they are not as religiouse as themselves. Or using religion to justify hording wealth and living in the lap of luxery while there are those living in squalor through no fault of there own.
I don’t believe I ever took this song to be against religion in general.
From the little I do know about John Lennon it would seem to back this understanding.

Will have to think about it some more.😉
 
I haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me if I’m repeating some one else or myself. I can’t claim to be a Beattles fan but I have always taken this song as a song speaking out against those who try to use religion to control people or use religion to do unspeakable acts of violence against others or to use religion to try and justify themselves or portray themselves as being religiouse and holy while nurturing a contemptuous attitude against any one who is not as religiouse and holy as themselves. Or using religion to justify not respecting another’s dignity as being made in God’s image and likeness by badgering, bullying, taunting, gas lighting, or condemning others because they are not as religiouse as themselves. Or using religion to justify hording wealth and living in the lap of luxery while there are those living in squalor through no fault of there own.
I don’t believe I ever took this song to be against religion in general.
From the little I do know about John Lennon it would seem to back this understanding.

Will have to think about it some more.😉
Ah, re-igniting this gem - well done.

I think Lennon was quite superficial (let’s call it mainstream 60s liberal) in his understanding of and attitude toward Christianity, but, again, that was nothing unusual for his culture, time or place. He captured the moment, articulated it.

But he was more complicated and gifted than just this song or these rather mundane statements against religion. He is not the first artist or even saint for that matter to have multiple sides and even darkness, struggles.

St. Paul was choleric. We can’t look for perfection in saints or troubled, talented pop artists. Lennon is the sum of many parts.
 
Sometimes art can take on a life of its own, so to say. There’s one art dictum that says, “the viewer completes the piece”. In this case the listener. ‘Imagine’ certainly has pride of place in the hymnal of the church of no god. And it has acquired an anthem-ish status among the worldly. Lennon was just dreamer as most poets are. I don’t think he intended the song as the manifesto it has currently become for some. I never sensed it promoting anything but one man’s irrational utopian fantasy. And the melody, while pleasant, remains melancholic.

PeterK
Art is not an excuse. I heard the song when it first came out. It is a Communist/atheist manifesto. Mr. Lennon wrote other things that were not musings at all. He and the Beatles had a long history with the public. He went from “I Want To Hold Your Hand” to this? As someone who lived through the first Beatles record to their break up and beyond, John turned into another person in public. I won’t guess why. Imagine was a terrible song as far as the lyrics. Terrible. The year it came out matters. 1971 was the middle of the 5 year plan to turn a normal world upside down.

The FBI had a thick file on him. His Communist leanings were one reason. An influential singer/musician meant something. With just over a decade of performing…

Modern or Fine Art is mostly a psychological/unintelligible thing which I realized while taking art classes in college. Otherwise, it is useful as propaganda if it communicates something intelligible to the viewer.

Ed
 
Was it John Lennon that wrote " O Happy Day"? That was a beautiful song.
 
Ah, re-igniting this gem - well done.

I think Lennon was quite superficial (let’s call it mainstream 60s liberal) in his understanding of and attitude toward Christianity, but, again, that was nothing unusual for his culture, time or place. He captured the moment, articulated it.

But he was more complicated and gifted than just this song or these rather mundane statements against religion. He is not the first artist or even saint for that matter to have multiple sides and even darkness, struggles.

St. Paul was choleric. We can’t look for perfection in saints or troubled, talented pop artists. Lennon is the sum of many parts.
Lol! Who’s looking for perfection here?😉
 
I haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me if I’m repeating some one else or myself. I can’t claim to be a Beattles fan but I have always taken this song as a song speaking out against those who try to use religion to control people or use religion to do unspeakable acts of violence against others or to use religion to try and justify themselves or portray themselves as being religiouse and holy while nurturing a contemptuous attitude against any one who is not as religiouse and holy as themselves. Or using religion to justify not respecting another’s dignity as being made in God’s image and likeness by badgering, bullying, taunting, gas lighting, or condemning others because they are not as religiouse as themselves. Or using religion to justify hording wealth and living in the lap of luxery while there are those living in squalor through no fault of there own.
*** I don’t believe I ever took this song to be against religion in general.***
From the little I do know about John Lennon it would seem to back this understanding.

Will have to think about it some more.������
Me neither.
I hear it as a spiritual song, and that’s how I feel whenever I hear it.
 
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