John Lennon’s Imagine is ‘heart-chilling’, says bishop in Christmas homily

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simple_soul said:
Never said he did. Doesn’t change what I said about the song. For all I know the song was about him realizing how he should be. Not how he was. 🙂
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No, Lennon was a full blown hypocrite. The song could well be the anthem for democratic party. All the leaders of the DNC are just like Lennon, They deserve their millions and milllions and millions of dollars while demanding the middle class tighten up teir belt so we can fund programs for the poor.
 
simple_soul said:
The really sad thing is…this is exactly what I took the song Imagine to be saying. The song is like an anthem speaking against profiting and trying to gain the whole world.������
And, from the little bit I do know of John Lennon, this seems to be exactly what he was trying to convey through his music.

And for some reason…you don’t see it…for whatever reason it may be… You don’t see it or don’t want to see it. ������
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Oh I get what he was trying to say. I just don’t believe him. I don’t believe the socialistic lie that everyone will be equal and loving and peaceful. All you will have is forced poverty and misery, while the elites enrich themselves. And the only “peace” you will find is the kind of peace you saw in the USSR.
 
simple_soul said:
I guess some people love being greedy while others are dying the slow agonizing death of starvation. I guess some thrive on the dog-eat-dog mentality that is so prevelent to our human nature. I guess some people like living in fear of hell and some people must like thinking heaven is a place that they can earn someday. Some like to live every moment fretting over the past and worrying about the future.

While there are others who would give the shirt off their backs so that some one else has that shirt and does not go naked. Not to earn something but because they simple love their fellow man so much that they would rather give everything they have even their lives just so that their fellow mankind will not have to do without. And I guess some people like to live in the moment not fretting about the past and not hording for the future or worrying about every single mistake they make for fear of ending up in hell or obsessing over weather one is holy enough or not to merit heaven but a simple loving trust in God and and his fellow mankind that God has his back no matter what. For they have learned that God is found in the moment and His Kingdom is at hand and among us. If we would only choose to accept Him and Live in His Kingdom. Not fretting about the past or pinning away for the future. But simple loving trust of God and keeping ourselves in His Merciful Loving Peace. I know. It’s a struggle and a journey that so many spiritual masters have tried to teach us…and yet we are still controlled by so much of this world and ourselves that we spend our days fretting over weather or not we are going to heaven or hell because of this or that and yet we could just simply choose to be in heaven right now. Right in this moment! We should be living for today. For this moment. It is were we find God. Maybe when mankind finally learns to do this we will be as one Just as Jesus prayed we would be as one with Him as He is with the Father. 😇

But I suppose some people just don’t want to live in peace of heart mind or soul. They prefer to be continually and eternally tormented and restless.
Yeah, maybe John Lennon was just a dreamer, but I am lead to believe he was more than just a dreamer, I am lead to believe he was just trying to help people see something he was beginning to grasp…imagine that…
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If Tom gave the shirt off of his back to Jerry, now Tom no longer has a shirt. Now Jerry should give the shirt off his back to Tom so Tom has a shirt. Doesnt work. Now if Tom, goes and starts a shirt factory and hires Jerry, once Jerry is paid he can buy a shirt from Tom. He can Also purchase food from Mary’s grocery store. He can also send his kids to school where they can learn how to design machines that lower the cost to making shirts and build tractors to help grow more food. But then all those people, except Tom and Mary would be a slave to wages. Maybe it was best for Tom and Jerry to trade the shirt back and forth.

It been my experience the people I find that most who “prefer to be continually and eternally tormented and restless” are liberals. Nothing ever makes them happy. They stay miserable all the time. Folks like me, conservatives. We go to work do a great job and dont complain because some one offended us. We save our money, buy a house to keep our families save, count our blessing. Just good old middle class Americans. The class that liberals, the church, the elites, and the poor look down their noses at

Who are these spiritual masters you speak of? There is only one master and he is God. There is no on else on this planet that is my Master or is better than me.
 
simple_soul said:
The really sad thing is…this is exactly what I took the song Imagine to be saying. The song is like an anthem speaking against profiting and trying to gain the whole world.🙂
And, from the little bit I do know of John Lennon, this seems to be exactly what he was trying to convey through his music.

And for some reason…you don’t see it…for whatever reason it may be… You don’t see it or don’t want to see it. 😎
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Was Jesus against profits?
 
zz912 said:
Oh I get what he was trying to say. ** I just don’t believe** him. I don’t believe the socialistic lie that everyone will be equal and loving and peaceful. All you will have is forced poverty and misery, while the elites enrich themselves. And the only “peace” you will find is the kind of peace you saw in the USSR.
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not believing is your prerogative.😊
 
philipl said:
If Tom gave the shirt off of his back to Jerry, now Tom no longer has a shirt. Now Jerry should give the shirt off his back to Tom so Tom has a shirt. Doesnt work. Now if Tom, goes and starts a shirt factory and hires Jerry, once Jerry is paid he can buy a shirt from Tom. He can Also purchase food from Mary’s grocery store. He can also send his kids to school where they can learn how to design machines that lower the cost to making shirts and build tractors to help grow more food. But then all those people, except Tom and Mary would be a slave to wages. Maybe it was best for Tom and Jerry to trade the shirt back and forth.

It been my experience the people I find that most who “prefer to be continually and eternally tormented and restless” are liberals. Nothing ever makes them happy. They stay miserable all the time. Folks like me, conservatives. We go to work do a great job and dont complain because some one offended us. We save our money, buy a house to keep our families save, count our blessing. Just good old middle class Americans. The class that liberals, the church, the elites, and the poor look down their noses at

Who are these spiritual masters you speak of? There is only one master and he is God. There is no on else on this planet that is my Master or is better than me.
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Oh I don’t know maybe spiritual masters like St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross for starters.
 
zz912 said:
Oh I get what he was trying to say. I just don’t believe him. I don’t believe the socialistic lie that everyone will be equal and loving and peaceful. All you will have is forced poverty and misery, while the elites enrich themselves. And the only “peace” you will find is the kind of peace you saw in the USSR.
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Your view is based on modernist revisionism. Like the accusations against Pope Francis stance on capitalist greed, as ‘socialism’, you are not factoring in the contemporary or historical environment in which a person is speaking.

Britain in the 60’s, especially the outlying northern centers, was strongly defined by a poverty stricken working class and an obscenely materialistic and snobby elite class. There was also the increase in war activity around the world including the ‘troubles’ defined by religious identity and the entry of Western troops to Vietnam.

John Lennon was from a working class background which was impossible to escape from without his stroke of luck with Beatles fame. How do you call for a more just society in that environment without calling out the elitist greed and religious hatred that marked the suffering of the people at that time?

Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…

“Heaven as the fullness of communion with God was the theme of the Holy Father’s catechesis at the General Audience of 21 July 1999. Heaven "is neither an abstraction not a physical place in the clouds, but a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity. It is our meeting with the Father which takes place in the risen Christ through the communion of the Holy Spirit,”

“hell is the ultimate consequence of sin itself… Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy”.

Pope St JPII 1999

Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…

Just read Genesis 11:1-2 “Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.” It isn’t hard to do.

Prior to religion, God was known. “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” Romans 1:20

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…

" Sell your possessions and give to the poor." Luke 12:33

Psalm 133:1 “Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brothers to dwell together in unity!”

Matthew 23:8 “But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.”

The song will have a timeless appeal because it isn’t political. It’s a social commentary about justice.
 
simple_soul said:
Oh I don’t know maybe spiritual masters like St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross for starters.
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Yes they were very spiritual, just not my masters. If you want to bow down to someone other than God, you can do so. But like I said, even if I met the Pope I would shake his hand and say hello. He is no better than me.
 
philipl said:
Yes they were very spiritual, just not my masters. If you want to bow down to someone other than God, you can do so. But like I said, even if I met the Pope I would shake his hand and say hello. He is no better than me.
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and on that note, John Lennon is no better than either of you.
 
philipl said:
He was against commerce inside the wall of the church. Didnt say anythings about commerce outside of it.
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Oh how this conversation could go on and on and on and on,

What exactly is the “the church?”
 
LongingSoul said:
Your view is based on modernist revisionism. Like the accusations against Pope Francis stance on capitalist greed, as ‘socialism’, you are not factoring in the contemporary or historical environment in which a person is speaking.

Britain in the 60’s, especially the outlying northern centers, was strongly defined by a poverty stricken working class and an obscenely materialistic and snobby elite class. There was also the increase in war activity around the world including the ‘troubles’ defined by religious identity and the entry of Western troops to Vietnam.

John Lennon was from a working class background which was impossible to escape from without his stroke of luck with Beatles fame. How do you call for a more just society in that environment without calling out the elitist greed and religious hatred that marked the suffering of the people at that time?
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The working class and poor in Britain were having a tough time because of the socialism they were enacting. Opportunity evaporates when socialism is enacted and people are stuck in poverty.

And I’m well informed of the circumstances present when he wrote the song. Many on the left were caught up in the lie that if you just stopped fighting against the communists and the left, that they would be peaceful and it would be rainbows and unicorns for everyone. It was a pernicious lie.
 
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