John Muir is Canceled. Whos's Next?

[gam197]

gam197:

It does not matter where the statue is. Thomas Jefferson came down from a public university as have many, many others. Are all the Martin Luther King Jr. statues on private land and how about the schools named after him, should they not all be canceled. George Washington name is being removed from schools.

It most certainly does matter where these statues are located. PUBLIC land belongs to the public. Defacing and vandalism of these statues is an attack on the community to which these statues belong.

Private land belongs to individuals, not the community. People have the right to change out their private yard decorations to whatever they want

Well we have a lot of work to do to get rid of Martin Luther King because his statues are everywgere on public land, so many and in so many states, just like Columbus statues we need to get going and get rid of them all because we can’t have a bigot who was against gays as a national figure to be revered.(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[RidgeSprinter]

I think the episode was called “Groundhog Day”

 

[Allie1]

Well we have a lot of work to do to get rid of Martin Luther King because his statues are everywgere on public land, so many and in so many states, just like Columbus we need to get going and get rid of them all because we can’t have a bigot who was against gays as a national figure to be revered

If this is your goal, Then I support your right to speak it, as part of your first amendment rights. But, I don’t support your cause.

 

[gam197]

I think the episode was called “Groundhog Day”

We are living in Groundhog day when each and everyday a new historical figure from 200 years ago is being canceled.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

Well we have a lot of work to do to get rid of Martin Luther King because his statues are everywgere on public land, so many and in so many states, just like Columbus we need to get going and get rid of them all because we can’t have a bigot who was against gays as a national figure to be revered

If this is your goal, Then I support your right to speak it, as part of your first amendment rights. But, I don’t support your cause.

No it can’t be my goal, it has to be everyone’s goal because the standard has been set. Once that standard has been set where anyone whose views are racist or bigots against any group, their historical significance has to be destroyed and taken out of community.

I would chose to leave most historical figures alone but since I do not get that choice, so I will go along with the consensus, your choice to take them all out.

 

[gam197]

Allie has not suggested that would be their choice and as to such a consensus existing - it certainly does not - hence the heated debated over the removal of such statues.
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Yes the day to day removal of only some statues and people taken out of history, only some people, who they deem are unfit such as John Muir.

But to be consistent all questionable figures have to wiped away and that is never going to happen. We see that it is is selective destruction of historical figures.

 

[gam197]

By a private group in this case who had so much pressure put on them that they buckled under. Believe me, the Sierra Club did not want John Muir’s name removed.

We have watched for months statue after statue being torn down, school names changed and revered figures being toppled and their role in history destroyed because it was deemed necessary by some.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

Well we have a lot of work to do to get rid of Martin Luther King because his statues are everywgere on public land, so many and in so many states, just like Columbus we need to get going and get rid of them all because we can’t have a bigot who was against gays as a national figure to be revered

If this is your goal, Then I support your right to speak it, as part of your first amendment rights. But, I don’t support your cause.

It is not my cause, it is your cause to get rid of all historical figures that are deemed “imperfect” and therefore must go and please don’t try to make a distinction between private and public property. I think we are well pass that in America when it come to canceling historical figures.

I am only searching for some consistency in your views.

 

[Allie1]

It is not my cause, it is your cause to get rid of all historical figures that are deemed “imperfect” and therefore must go and please don’t try to make a distinction between private and public property. I think we are well pass that in America when it come to canceling historical figures.

I am only searching for some consistency in your views.

This is not my cause. The only person who has
consistently been saying anything like this is you. I have never said, thought, or believed in anything as to what you are accusing me of

 

[gam197]

Nowhere has the poster you are responding to indicated support for such a cause or view.
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No she tries to skirt the issue by saying it is on private property so therefore it is fine to remove John Muir when we know and have seen the pressure being put on the Sierra club or any group who does not bow to the idealogy. John Muir has been declared a racist.

 

[gam197]

This is not my cause. The only person who has
consistently been saying anything like this is you. I have never said, thought, or believed in anything as to what you are accusing me of

So let’s hear your opinion, what historical figures should be removed because we certainly have seen a whole bunch. Should Jefferson, Washington, Columbus and others also be removed.

 

[goout]

Who’s next? You’ll have to ask Madame Defarge that question.
This is the stupidity of the cancel culture. The guillotine doesn’t play favorites. One minute you are a hipster woke progressive, the next minute you are on the wrong side of a wood block, all due to someone else’s subjective view of your human life.
Might be the most disturbing thing about our fallen culture: it’s radically ignorant of human nature and it’s history.

 

[gam197]

The Sierra Club is a private organization. If the leadership of this private organization no longer wants to associate themselves with this person then that is their perogative. Moreover, if the members of this private organization are upset that they are no longer honoring John Muir as the founder of this organization then they have the right to leave

This is your first post on this thread. You have been very vocal in your opinion on this thread. Please clarify whether you think that Washington, Jefferson. Columbus should also be removed.

 

[Allie1]

Allie1:

anything as to what you are accusing me of

So let’s hear your opinion, what historical figures should be removed because we certainly have seen a whole bunch. Should Jefferson, Washington, Columbus and others also be removed.

No historical figures should be removed. All public property should be respected. All national figures should be honored as part of our historical heritage and never vandalized and defaced. MLKs legacy should be rightly publically honored and taught in schools. All of these national monuments and national historic sites should be visited and learned from, whether it be about John Muir, George Washington, Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson.

I also believe that private entities have the right to disagree with me as part of their first amendment rights. I also believe that private entities on their private land can remove statues as they wish, as these statues belong to them as private entities, they do not belong to me

 

[RidgeSprinter]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I would not object to Donald Trump being Canceled.

 

[gam197]

No loyalty test. Allie1 has posted 14 times on this thread so she clearly has a strong opinion on this matter.

It is been suggested that I misunderstood her so I am asking for clarification.

 

[gam197]

No historical figures should be removed. All public property should be respected. All national figures should be honored as part of our historical heritage and never vandalized and defaced. MLKs legacy should be rightly publically honored and taught in schools. All of these national monuments and national historic sites should be visited and learned from, whether it be about John Muir, George Washington, Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson.

Thank you for that clarification. I do owe you an apology because you do not feel that any statue should be removed. After the fact, of all these removal, would you be in favor of having those statues that have been taken down restored? Could you clarify?

I also believe that private entities have the right to disagree with me as part of their first amendment rights. I also believe that private entities on their private land can remove statues as they wish, as these statues belong to them as private entities, they do not belong to me

Aren’t private groups put under pressure to conform so why the break on this with private groups?
This seems to be something you have a strong opinion on.

 

[Allie1]

Thank you, I appreciate your kindness.

 

[Allie1]

Would you be in favor of having those statues that have been taken down restored?

Yes, any statue that has been removed from public land should be restored. These items should have never been removed, they belong to the nation.
For statues that belong to private entities, the Sierra Club statue for example, it would be nice if they lend it to a museum so that the public can still view it. Not saying they have to do it, as it doesn’t belong to anyone else but them. I still think it would be nice. It’s a request that they have every right to decline.

Aren’t private groups put under pressure to conform so why the break on this with private groups?

Are private groups put under pressure? Some are some aren’t. I have no idea if Sierra Club, for example, was put under pressure or not. All I have is what they have said publicly.

I differentiate between public and private because I believe in property rights.

I understand that there are items that don’t belong to me. They belong to other people. And because of the fact that these items do not belong to me, then the rightful owners of these items can freely chose to do with their property whatsoever they want. Keep the statue displayed on their property, put it in storage, lend it to a museum, use it as a paper weight. It’s their property to freely chose whatever it is they want to do with it.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

Would you be in favor of having those statues that have been taken down restored?

Yes, any statue that has been removed from public land should be restored. These items should have never been removed, they belong to the nation.

Well, I am glad that you believe in that. These statues are not going to get restored, once a statue is removed, it rarely gets restored.

gam197:

Aren’t private groups put under pressure to conform so why the break on this with private groups?

Are private groups put under pressure? Some are some aren’t. I have no idea if Sierra Club, for example, was put under pressure or not. All I have is what they have said publicly.

I differentiate between public and private because I believe in property rights.

So you believe strongly in property rights. I am sure that the decision to remove John Muir came only after much pressure from outside groups to remove his name. I do not see it as a private property right but coercion by some to have his name stripped and his books taken off the shelves.

I truly believe if the Sierra Club had been able to, they would have kept their founder’s name on the club.

Thank you for the clarification.