Jon Stewart's end rally speech drives the point home

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Tom,

Due to time I won’t address every point here. I never said you don’t have the right to your views so it’s beyond me where you get that from. You say I ignore both sides. Bull. I do not. As to history showing this and that, it is mixed. Talk to my grandpa who lived during WWII and joined the Civilian Conservation Corps and worked hard to earn money to keep his mom and dad having food on the table. He sent half his check to his dad in a sanitarium because he had Tuburculosis. He sent the other part to his mom to help her get by. My other grandpa was also in the CCC’s and sent ALL of his check to his brothers and sisters to get by during the depression as well. My grandparents ALL benefited from Roosevelt and thought him a hero, still do. The New Deal saved a lot of Americans. And the Bush tax cuts have also saved a lot of folks, my family included.

Just FYI, I voted for Bob Dole in 1996, George W. Bush in 2000, George W. Bush in 2004, Carly Fiorina here for Senate over Boxer, Republicans for Insurance Commissioner, Republicans for judges, Republicans for Attorney General, etc. I also voted for Democrats in other areas, most notably governor.

I think Democrats and Republicans have stepped up at different times in history whether it was Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Reagan, Clinton, and GW Bush. Note I voted TWICE for Bush. Hardly the actions of a hardcore liberal. I also voted for Obama, much to my regret. I have said as much in here many times. I would not vote for him again. If Sarah Palin is the nominee, I will vote for neither she nor Obama, but a third party. I’d write in Pee Wee Herman over those two.

I am very willing to compromise, just not tow a party line and get on a bandwagon and empty my brains out for one party. It’s absurd.

With the GOP I favor these issues:

I’m against gun control. I am pro second amendment
I’m against letting the Bush tax cuts expire
I want us to try to stop the bleeding and quit spending, repeal the healthcare legislation
I want us to halt the stimulus money and try to stop the bleeding there as well
I’m anti-abortion and would like to see Roe v. Wade repealed and abortion made illegal
I’m opposed to excessive secularism and the mad push to shove religion out of the public square
I’m opposed to the 9-11 trials
I’m opposed to the mosque built on the site of the Twin Towers
I’m opposed to stem cell research
I’m opposed to homosexual marriage and would like a federal law making it illegal
I’m against gays in the military

With the Dems I favor these issues:

Tough EPA standards, fight global warming
Pro-union. We need tough unions to keep management honest and fight for workers’ rights
Animal rights. I am a vegetarian and an animal rights supporter
Public education. I support it. If I didn’t believe in it, I wouldn’t work in it and try to make it the best system possible for my part
Medicare…I favor it and think it is crucial
Social Security…do not privatize it, I believe deeply in it

I hope this clarifies my vantage point for you. Though I don’t owe anyone an explanation of my beliefs, I found you post to be the most charitable and thoughtful and lacking the hostility of some in here that can get downright nasty.

We’re not as far apart as you might think. I hope Obama and the Republicans can accomplish something and the politics stops.

God bless you

gurneyhalleck, you said that Republicans are constantly standing in the way of Obama.

What I don’t get is that Obama had the House, Senate, and Presidency, and he passed a whole lot of his spending ideas. Now that an election is coming around, and it’s the Midterms (which are almost always a referendum on the party in power), polling has consistently shown that people, not just Republicans (the Party of No, right?), but the American people, are the ones who don’t want the spending packages, bailouts, and complicated plans of Obama.

This is silly. Every time I give my views, I at least try to do so in response to the other side’s views. I don’t ignore both sides. I believe what I believe. Are you saying I’m not allowed to believe what I believe, and disagree with what the opposite side believes?

I**I’ll speak for myself in response to this: I don’t think the “rock-throwing GOP tea party zone” is the sole corner of the universe founded on truth, goodness, etc. I do however think that my ideology is the right way to get this country back on track, and that the opposition’s ideology will worsen the economic crisis.

And FYI, conservative Republicans are the ones who tend to agree with the Church on those non-negotiable issues such as abortion, marriage, and family. And I will stand on those conservative Catholic positions, because they are Catholic and they are conservative.**

There are profound differences. You’re actually right on that statement. Good and bad in both. You make the choice to vote conservatively. Fine. Free country. But don’t insult my intelligence and the intelligence of others on here with the insane idea that the Republicans are always right, dems always wrong, and that the Democrats are totally evil. It’s nonsense and you know it.

History shows that conservative principles have saved this country from economic downturns. I don’t think Democrats are totally evil. I think that their policies are so economically destructive that they either have to be stupid, which I doubt, or they are doing it on purpose.
You don’t sound very willing to compromise with The Right, nor does Obama. Let’s see Obama pass two or three ideas of The Right before we talk about compromise.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, you’re right. Jesus is a Republican.

Actually I think the independents are more like zombies than anyone. At least the left know what they want regardless of how wrong, misguided and strange it can be. The right may not always be right but they tend to work out better solutions than the left while the independents wander aimlessly back and forth like zombies playing keep away with the two parties with no real ideas or solutions as to how they are going to catch the ball.

 

[rlg94086]

My Giants just won the World Series so this goofy post doesn’t even get under my skin. Yes, I’m THAT happy! So, quick reply while I’m in the World Series euphoria…

Shame on you. Shame on you. I don’t vote a party line as a Republican and vote the way you like so I’m a “concern?” Do you seriously choose a qualified teacher based on how they vote? That is so stupid. Plain stupid. I was with you on the first part of the post and ready to wish you well and say, “good enough, friend” and you have to end this post with the idiotic words you chose. Shame on you. You don’t know me, rlg. You haven’t a clue about me or the job I do. I work my butt off and love my kids. I cherish my classes and I work 'em HARD. I teach to standards, teach Christianity in the classroom along with the other world religions. I teach Catholicism as per standards. I teach Jesus Christ. We read the Bible. I teach about the heresies, I teach about the Old Testament. We study St. Polycarp, learn about the papacy, the Orthodox, the early Church. I bust my butt to teach these kids right from wrong all year long. I put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into my classroom. You haven’t a CLUE what I do. You’re too deeply brainwashed by the Right and think all public school teachers are communist Maoist psychos out to convert your kids. Shame on you. Your ignorance is almost palpable. I’m appauled by this post. As to the last charge that you’re a “victim” of the public schools, I can’t speak to that. Obviously somewhere along the way you weren’t properly taught manners, critical thinking, being impartial and fair, analysis, or to get to know someone before you slam their character.

You sit here and say how you’re mostly conservative but also liberal. Hello? Hello? Is that not what I’ve been saying? I’ve been telling you (and it’s like speaking to a brick) that I vote for both parties based on the issues and the candidate. Yet when you do it, it’s righteous and holy. When I do it, it’s “concerning” and “wishy washy?” I’m curious why your bipartisan open-minded mix of liberal and conservative is so prudent and wise and yet mine is somehow detrimental to kids and disturbing.

You’ve made my case for me that your erratic and inconsistent nonsense is just that, nonsense. I’m putting you on ignore and could care less what you have to say—period. You don’t need to pray for my students. You need prayer yourself.

God bless you in your journey…and I’m glad that Jon Stewart’s call to civility has had such a fantastic effect on your posts.

That said, I did lash out inappropriately with the comment about your teaching capabilities, and I do apologize. I guess I didn’t care much for the characterizations you made about me in the previous post. It is probably for the best that you ignore me, so you can stay in your “I’m ‘independent’ and therefore better than you all” bubble.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

God bless you in your journey…and I’m glad that Jon Stewart’s call to civility has had such a fantastic effect on your posts.

That said, I did lash out inappropriately with the comment about your teaching capabilities, and I do apologize. I guess I didn’t care much for the characterizations you made about me in the previous post. It is probably for the best that you ignore me, so you can stay in your “I’m ‘independent’ and therefore better than you all” bubble.

Is this a non- apology apology? Too clever.

 

[rlg94086]

Is this a non- apology apology? Too clever.

It’s an apology and a chastisement? Why? Do you think it has something to do with you?

 

[Sonoran_Son]

Everything you wrote is almost exactly my views on the subject. I used to be a pretty hardcore liberal when I was younger, but as I’ve gotten older, wiser, and gained a broader worldview, and realized the difference between “fair” and “right”, I’ve gone much more middle of the road.

I’ve watched this liberal vs. conservative war destroy this country and mire us in economic disaster in the prime of my life. I see a deficit spiraling out of control that neither side seems willing to do anything about, while we go further into debt to China.

The fact is, our government is full of crooks. If even 10% of the members of the House & Senate are honest, decent people, I’d be shocked. I think a lot of good men and women run for Congress with nothing but the best intentions of doing the right thing, and sticking up for the little guy, but it doesn’t take them long to realize that that’s just not how things work in Washington. You don’t represent the people in that role - you represent whatever your party wants, and whatever special interest lobbyist group is offering the biggest campaign contribution.

I tend to feel the same way you do in regard to politics. One reason I am an independent is that I have yet to find a party that I support enough to consider becoming a member. But I believe that most people who run (and win) office are good people who sincerely support their views (though, this may be a little too naive of me).

 

[bbarrick8383]

Yeah, you’re right. Jesus is a Republican.

Nah, I he was above all this. Interesting how the left and “centrist” throw that up a lot. As if promoting big brother government would somehow be part of WWJD if he were a politician.

 

[Robert_Bay]

REMINDER

Discuss the issues, not each other

 

[estesbob]

Actually I think the independents are more like zombies than anyone. At least the left know what they want regardless of how wrong, misguided and strange it can be. The right may not always be right but they tend to work out better solutions than the left while the independents wander aimlessly back and forth like zombies playing keep away with the two parties with no real ideas or solutions as to how they are going to catch the ball.

I agree. They really have no core values- they just vote each election for whatever candidate strikes their fancy in this cycle. Between elections they sit on the sidelines throwing stones at both parties as if this it gives them some kind of moral superiority. They sit out the most important moral issues facing our country today because, as they put it, both parties are evil and apparently they don’t want to get their hands dirty supporting either one.

There are profound differences between the two political parties are moral and economic issues. You cannot paper these over by saying “can’t we us just get along”. I don’t want to get along with people who support a cradle-to-grave welfare state and believe that the lives of children are expendable for the greater good.

 

[rlg94086]

Believe what you will, gurneyhalleck1. I’m not a party-line Republican. I vote Catholic. For me, that means my vote for national candidates tend to be Republican, therefore I register Republican. In local elections, I tend to be more liberal. I support state-sponsored healthcare, immigration reform, an end to the death penalty, etc.

So, take your Dramamine, if you will. Your wishy-washy outlook on life concerns me, since you teach children. As a victim of California public schools, I will pray for your students.

God bless you in your journey…and I’m glad that Jon Stewart’s call to civility has had such a fantastic effect on your posts.

That said, I did lash out inappropriately with the comment about your teaching capabilities, and I do apologize. I guess I didn’t care much for the characterizations you made about me in the previous post. It is probably for the best that you ignore me, so you can stay in your “I’m ‘independent’ and therefore better than you all” bubble.

I lashed out inappropriately yesterday and am deeply sorry. My half-apology with chastisement on the side was pathetic.

Look, I agree with The gist of Stewart’s call to lower the rhetoric, even though I am skeptical of his intent. I will do my best to cut down on the sarcasm and my apparent need to insult in order to “win” an argument. This doesn’t all of a sudden mean I’m going to change my views, but I will do my best to be more respectful and not take every anti-Republican post as a personal attack that needs avenging.

Oh, and vote Catholic today, if you haven’t already!

 

[Tom_8_0_0]

Hi Tom,

Due to time I won’t address every point here. I never said you don’t have the right to your views so it’s beyond me where you get that from. (you had said that I ought to be independent and see the good and bad in both parties; I guess I thought you were telling me not to be too attached to either side; my mistake)

You say I ignore both sides. Bull. I do not. (sorry, I didn’t say that) As to history showing this and that, it is mixed. Talk to my grandpa who lived during WWII and joined the Civilian Conservation Corps and worked hard to earn money to keep his mom and dad having food on the table. He sent half his check to his dad in a sanitarium because he had Tuburculosis. He sent the other part to his mom to help her get by. My other grandpa was also in the CCC’s and sent ALL of his check to his brothers and sisters to get by during the depression as well. My grandparents ALL benefited from Roosevelt and thought him a hero, still do. The New Deal saved a lot of Americans. And the Bush tax cuts have also saved a lot of folks, my family included.

Well, I think FDR’s actions, while initially beneficial to individual people, had a devastating effect on the country as a whole. I can believe that your grandparents and family and whatnot benefited from some of Roosevelt’s plans, but I just think people in need should be helped on the state level. That’s where the idea of the nanny state comes from, when the national government does what state governments should do. I’m all for helping those folks out, but when the nation does it all at once, it has an adverse effect on the country, while it appears to be helping people.

Just FYI, I voted for Bob Dole in 1996, George W. Bush in 2000, George W. Bush in 2004, Carly Fiorina here for Senate over Boxer, Republicans for Insurance Commissioner, Republicans for judges, Republicans for Attorney General, etc. I also voted for Democrats in other areas, most notably governor.

Good for you!

I think Democrats and Republicans have stepped up at different times in history whether it was Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Reagan, Clinton, and GW Bush. Note I voted TWICE for Bush. Hardly the actions of a hardcore liberal. I also voted for Obama, much to my regret. I have said as much in here many times. I would not vote for him again. If Sarah Palin is the nominee, I will vote for neither she nor Obama, but a third party. I’d write in Pee Wee Herman over those two.

Clinton, he was a GREAT president, wasn’t he?

I am very willing to compromise, just not tow a party line and get on a bandwagon and empty my brains out for one party. It’s absurd.

Ok, as long as you know where you stand on the issues, I have no bout with that.

With the GOP I favor these issues:

I’m against gun control. I am pro second amendment
good!
I’m against letting the Bush tax cuts expire
good!
I want us to try to stop the bleeding and quit spending, repeal the healthcare legislation
GREAT!
I want us to halt the stimulus money and try to stop the bleeding there as well
YES!
I’m anti-abortion and would like to see Roe v. Wade repealed and abortion made illegal
HURRAH
I’m opposed to excessive secularism and the mad push to shove religion out of the public square
DO I HEAR AN ‘AMEN’?
I’m opposed to the 9-11 trials
OORAH
I’m opposed to the mosque built on the site of the Twin Towers
YES!
I’m opposed to stem cell research
YES!
I’m opposed to homosexual marriage and would like a federal law making it illegal
YES!
I’m against gays in the military
**YES!

My goodness we agree on a lot.**

With the Dems I favor these issues:

Tough EPA standards, fight global warming
In my opinion it doesn’t exist, but that’s ok, as long as the government doesn’t start making rules that are punishable by law, I’m all for the EPA doing what it does.
Pro-union. We need tough unions to keep management honest and fight for workers’ rights
Yes, I agree that unions need to keep management honest and fight for workers’ rights. The thing is, the Dems only support unions because a majority of them give money to their campaigns.
Animal rights. I am a vegetarian and an animal rights supporter
Fair enough; but prioritize: let’s give animals rights after unborn babies have rights.
Public education. I support it. If I didn’t believe in it, I wouldn’t work in it and try to make it the best system possible for my part
I wish every teacher thought like you do. If they did, our public education system would be incomparable.
Medicare…I favor it and think it is crucial
ok
Social Security…do not privatize it, I believe deeply in it
ok, it’s broke though.

I hope this clarifies my vantage point for you. Though I don’t owe anyone an explanation of my beliefs, I found you post to be the most charitable and thoughtful and lacking the hostility of some in here that can get downright nasty.

We’re not as far apart as you might think. I hope Obama and the Republicans can accomplish something and the politics stops.

God bless you

**Well thank you, you’re very kind. I don’t like to be hostile, this is the Catholic Answers forum and people should try to be a little more charitable. We DO agree on a lot, and yes, I do hope that something useful, whatever it may be, is accomplished in the new Congress. God bless you too. **

 

[A_Fortiori_33]

I lashed out inappropriately yesterday and am deeply sorry. My half-apology with chastisement on the side was pathetic.

Look, I agree with The gist of Stewart’s call to lower the rhetoric, even though I am skeptical of his intent. I will do my best to cut down on the sarcasm and my apparent need to insult in order to “win” an argument. This doesn’t all of a sudden mean I’m going to change my views, but I will do my best to be more respectful and not take every anti-Republican post as a personal attack that needs avenging.

Oh, and vote Catholic today, if you haven’t already!

I read your post early this morning but did not have time to respond until now. It takes a self reflective person to think back on what one says and later apologize. Thanks for taking the high road. Sometimes I take pride in a snakey response, and I, too, apologize for the indulgence. Thanks, Robert.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You’re right; it doesn’t! It’s funny how Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Muhammad Ali, Sting, Cher, Prince, and Chad Ochocinco are ok but we have to call out Jon Stewart’s Jewish name!

He did make a profound point. We are all in this country together and we need to listen to each other and behave in a civilized way. Why does his birth name matter for this message?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

As in the past, I started reading this thinking, "wow, that’s cool. He didn’t mean the stuff he said and we can bury the hatchet. Then I kept reading and realized the hatchet was being buried in my head. I don’t recall when I said I’m better than ANYBODY in here. I’m a sinner just like anyone else. I don’t presume to know all the answers. I also don’t believe for one second that either party has all those answers. That’s precisely why I refuse to cling to either one of them and be a neophyte for the GOP or the Left? Why can’t you see that? You can characterize me anyway you want. But the problem is, this is a Catholic forum. It shouldn’t be personal. You shouldn’t be assessing my character, my heart, judging me, or saying that I’m somehow abusive to kids because I’m not in complete agreement with your politics. I have laid out my beliefs. I am more conservative than I am liberal. But I have elements of both in my reasoning. I keep my opinions away from my students because I’m a PROFESSIONAL. My kids asked me all last week, “who are you voting for for governnor?” Over and over they asked. I refused to answer and told them that they are independent thinkers, critical thinkers, their parents’ views matter and should be factored, and they need to draw their own conclusions about how to vote and believe. I shouldn’t be a factor. I told them that. Then I come on here and get blasted by you as a sort of child-molestor? I don’t think you realize how hurtful that is to tell a teacher who works day in, day out with kids putting 100% into their devleopment academically, that they’re somehow hurting kids and pathetic for private, after-hours political opinions? It’d ludicrous? Should being a Democrat, Republican, or Independent have ANYTHING to do with our jobs in daily life? How do my views on things affect my teaching if I’m a professional? I would never, I mean never, assume that you’re incompetent in your field, whatever that is (you have not divulged it and opened up about it as I have, much to my regret). I would never assume you’re a crook, a moron, an abuser, or deficient in your duties. I’m just flaburgasted at such talk. And the “victim” language was just over the top. If you want to pretend I am an elitist and it edifies you, please, proceed. If you want to think I live in a bubble of denial, fine. Whatever. I just don’t understand these types of apologies. It’s like the kid who tells another kid on the playground, “your mom is a fat pig!” to which the teacher asks him to apologize. He responds, “fine, I’m sorry your mom is a pig.” That’s about what you’ve said here. I don’t like to use the ignore button but when someone attacks my family, my faith, or my profession, it’s over the top. I can appreciate you not liking my characterizations. God bless on that one. Free country and we all have the right to our opinions, but character assassination is just too much. God bless.

*Quote from rlg94086—*God bless you in your journey…and I’m glad that Jon Stewart’s call to civility has had such a fantastic effect on your posts.

That said, I did lash out inappropriately with the comment about your teaching capabilities, and I do apologize. I guess I didn’t care much for the characterizations you made about me in the previous post. It is probably for the best that you ignore me, so you can stay in your “I’m ‘independent’ and therefore better than you all” bubble.

 

[rlg94086]

As in the past, I started reading this thinking, "wow, that’s cool. He didn’t mean the stuff he said and we can bury the hatchet. Then I kept reading and realized the hatchet was being buried in my head. I don’t recall when I said I’m better than ANYBODY in here. I’m a sinner just like anyone else. I don’t presume to know all the answers. I also don’t believe for one second that either party has all those answers. That’s precisely why I refuse to cling to either one of them and be a neophyte for the GOP or the Left? Why can’t you see that? You can characterize me anyway you want. But the problem is, this is a Catholic forum. It shouldn’t be personal. You shouldn’t be assessing my character, my heart, judging me, or saying that I’m somehow abusive to kids because I’m not in complete agreement with your politics. I have laid out my beliefs. I am more conservative than I am liberal. But I have elements of both in my reasoning. I keep my opinions away from my students because I’m a PROFESSIONAL. My kids asked me all last week, “who are you voting for for governnor?” Over and over they asked. I refused to answer and told them that they are independent thinkers, critical thinkers, their parents’ views matter and should be factored, and they need to draw their own conclusions about how to vote and believe. I shouldn’t be a factor. I told them that. Then I come on here and get blasted by you as a sort of child-molestor? I don’t think you realize how hurtful that is to tell a teacher who works day in, day out with kids putting 100% into their devleopment academically, that they’re somehow hurting kids and pathetic for private, after-hours political opinions? It’d ludicrous? Should being a Democrat, Republican, or Independent have ANYTHING to do with our jobs in daily life? How do my views on things affect my teaching if I’m a professional? I would never, I mean never, assume that you’re incompetent in your field, whatever that is (you have not divulged it and opened up about it as I have, much to my regret). I would never assume you’re a crook, a moron, an abuser, or deficient in your duties. I’m just flaburgasted at such talk. And the “victim” language was just over the top. If you want to pretend I am an elitist and it edifies you, please, proceed. If you want to think I live in a bubble of denial, fine. Whatever. I just don’t understand these types of apologies. It’s like the kid who tells another kid on the playground, “your mom is a fat pig!” to which the teacher asks him to apologize. He responds, “fine, I’m sorry your mom is a pig.” That’s about what you’ve said here. I don’t like to use the ignore button but when someone attacks my family, my faith, or my profession, it’s over the top. I can appreciate you not liking my characterizations. God bless on that one. Free country and we all have the right to our opinions, but character assassination is just too much. God bless.

*Quote from rlg94086—*God bless you in your journey…and I’m glad that Jon Stewart’s call to civility has had such a fantastic effect on your posts.

That said, I did lash out inappropriately with the comment about your teaching capabilities, and I do apologize. I guess I didn’t care much for the characterizations you made about me in the previous post. It is probably for the best that you ignore me, so you can stay in your “I’m ‘independent’ and therefore better than you all” bubble.

As I said in my last post, my earlier “apology” was pathetic. I understand your reluctance to forgive me, and I’m okay with that. God bless.

 

[rlg94086]

I read your post early this morning but did not have time to respond until now. It takes a self reflective person to think back on what one says and later apologize. Thanks for taking the high road. Sometimes I take pride in a snakey response, and I, too, apologize for the indulgence. Thanks, Robert.

Thanks A Fortiori. I’ve been rude to you in the past, as well. I’m going to do my best to avoid it in the future. I wish I could provide a guarantee, but I know myself a little too well to have that sort of confidence.

 

[A_Fortiori_33]

I’m bringing this discussion to the top of the board because I think it needs to be discussed. I guess we will see if anyone agrees with me.

 

[RACJ]

He did make a profound point. We are all in this country together and we need to listen to each other and behave in a civilized way. Why does his birth name matter for this message?

Might he have been upbraiding his fellow libs, you think, with this comment? If you attended any Tea Party event, you'd be stunned at just how civil the crowds have been. It's Obama, Pelosi and Reid who have acted like arrogant punks, dismissive of the concerns of the folks who make America work. Remember the huge gavel. Well, our successful Pa. Congressional candidate, Tom Marino, said it best on Tuesday: "Nancy Pelosi, You're FIRED!!!" :D Rob