Jonah and other Old Testament miracles

[garysibio]

How is my interpreting a story according to its literary and historical context (as the Church teaches we should when interpreting the Bible) denying the scriptures.

I have never met a Catholic priest or bishop who believed that Jonah was actually inside the belly of a whale for 3 days.

That’s why the Catholic Church is in such sad shape. We need to start believing what God has revealed. Just because we reject sola scriptura doesn’t mean we can reject Scripture. Modernist nonsense must be rejected.

 

[garysibio]

So again, what does this do to Jesus’ contentions about his signs being the “sign of Jonah”? Is Jesus saying that His coming death is simply a metaphor or allegory? Its all going to be a fabricated story to teach a moral lesson? I certainly hope not.

I, too, find it hard to believe that Jonah could survive in the belly of a whale for 3 days, but I also understand that “All things are possible with God”.

Amen!

 

[Moro_Rock]

So again, what does this do to Jesus’ contentions about his signs being the “sign of Jonah”? Is Jesus saying that His coming death is simply a metaphor or allegory? Its all going to be a fabricated story to teach a moral lesson? I certainly hope not.

I, too, find it hard to believe that Jonah could survive in the belly of a whale for 3 days, but I also understand that “All things are possible with God”.

And if Jonah actually died in the belly of the sea monster and was resurrected ,
this would explain why Jesus used him as a sign of His own death , burial and resurrection .

 

[larsenl1]

I find it hard to believe Jonah lived in a whale for 3 days or that the dead of the surrounding area walked around Jerusalem after the death of Christ. Could someone help me out please

The very fact that it is incredulous is what makes it a miracle. Jesus truly died and was cold and buried for three days before he came back to life. Many others came back to life. They were not zombies, walking dead. THEY WERE ALIVE!!!

Jonah survived in the belly of the whale by God’s miraculous intervention and his testimony of this miracle changed the Ninevites hearts and they turned back to God.

How can a bumble bee fly? How can life grow in a woman’s womb? Miracles do happen.

 

[garysibio]

The very fact that it is incredulous is what makes it a miracle. Jesus truly died and was cold and buried for three days before he came back to life. Many others came back to life. They were not zombies, walking dead. THEY WERE ALIVE!!!

Jonah survived in the belly of the whale by God’s miraculous intervention and his testimony of this miracle changed the Ninevites hearts and they turned back to God.

How can a bumble bee fly? How can life grow in a woman’s womb? Miracles do happen.

Just an aside: The bumble bee’s ability to fly is not a miracle. The idea that it violates the laws of aerodynamics is an urban myth. The calculations were based on the aerodynamics of a fixed wing aircraft. A bumble bee can move its wings. When that is taken into account, there is no problem with the equations.

The Wikipedia article on bumble bees gives an excellent synopsis.

 

[garysibio]

I think Jonah should be understood literally. The same God who raised the dead, gave sight to the blind and cleansed the lepers is not bound by human understanding or natural laws.

I believe they are called miracles.

 

[larsenl1]

Just an aside: The bumble bee’s ability to fly is not a miracle. The idea that it violates the laws of aerodynamics is an urban myth. The calculations were based on the aerodynamics of a fixed wing aircraft. A bumble bee can move its wings. When that is taken into account, there is no problem with the equations.

The Wikipedia article on bumble bees gives an excellent synopsis.

Humph, so much for all those bee pins I was awarded when I sold Mary Kay Cosmetics.

 

[EricFilmer]

I once heard a Dominican friar preach on the Book of Jonah, during which he made the following comment: “If we say that the historical Jonah wasn’t really swallowed by a big fish and eventually spat up back on land, isn’t that tantamount to saying that God isn’t allowed to have any fun?”

 

[Windfish]

It is not a matter that is currently defined by the Church, and there are probably several schools of interpretation that a Catholic can choose from. No big deal.

But I do take issue with the condescension of posters like razredge. Just quit it.

 

[garysibio]

Humph, so much for all those bee pins I was awarded when I sold Mary Kay Cosmetics.

Sorry about harshing your mellow.

 

[garysibio]

I once heard a Dominican friar preach on the Book of Jonah, during which he made the following comment: “If we say that the historical Jonah wasn’t really swallowed by a big fish and eventually spat up back on land, isn’t that tantamount to saying that God isn’t allowed to have any fun?”

LOL

I thought DOminicans weren’t allowed to have fun. That was reserved for Franciscans.

 

[garysibio]

Because it is a pious fiction, backed up by no historical or archaeological evidence (which the Gospels do) has none of the verisimilitude present in the Gospel accounts and has all the believability of a fairy tale. It’s not an issue of whether miracles can occur it’s an issue of sheer ridiculousness.

Would you believe that Jack & the Beanstalk recorded actual historical events if it happened to be included in the Bible?

And anyway, as I posted before even Catholic Answers says we’re free to believe the story is fiction.

1. If Jack and the Bean Stalk was included in the Bible, yes, I’d believe it. And you had better do so also or you are calling God a liar.
2. If the book of Jonah said Jonah swallowed the whale, I would believe it because that would be preferable to swallowing the modernist nonsense you’ve swallowed.
3. The last I checked Catholic Answers was not the final authority on the Bible.

 

[excubitor]

Well it certainly is a comfort to me to see that the majority of people here believe in the literal and historical account of Jonah. Maybe we are finally climbing out of the horrendous modernist period which has run for nearly a hundred years now.

Praise God.

One day soon we will all be allowed to believe the Bible literally and historically without being regarded as a fundamentalist. May the Lord hasten the day.

 

[NotWorthy]

Well it certainly is a comfort to me to see that the majority of people here believe in the literal and historical account of Jonah. Maybe we are finally climbing out of the horrendous modernist period which has run for nearly a hundred years now.

Praise God.

One day soon we will all be allowed to believe the Bible literally and historically without being regarded as a fundamentalist. May the Lord hasten the day.

you mean… you mean… maybe Jesus DIDN’T convince 5000 people to share their bread and fish with one another and that the miracle ACTUALLY IS that He multiplied the loaves and the fish for the multitudes???

Oh man, this is just too much to bear!!!

Seriously, I agree that the time for the “horrendous modernist period” to end!

 

[MaryandJoseph]

I attended a bible study conducted by a longtime parish priest who time after time tried to say that many of the OT events didn’t really happen, they were there only as a teaching method. First Parents Adam and Eve–The Flood–Jonah and the whale–Parting of the Red Sea and 40 years of wandering in the desert…

In all honesty, if I would have continued with the bible study (which was suppose to be from a Catholic perspective), I would have returned to my atheist way…(he almost had me doubting the bible itself).

Point being…If God can create the universe out of nothing, create man from the dust of the earth, be born of a virgin, and RAISE FROM THE TOMB alive and glorified on the 3rd day, then I am thinking God would have made real sure Jonah could survive in the belly of a whale for three days.

 

[garysibio]

I attended a bible study conducted by a longtime parish priest who time after time tried to say that many of the OT events didn’t really happen, they were there only as a teaching method. First Parents Adam and Eve–The Flood–Jonah and the whale–Parting of the Red Sea and 40 years of wandering in the desert…

In all honesty, if I would have continued with the bible study (which was suppose to be from a Catholic perspective), I would have returned to my atheist way…(he almost had me doubting the bible itself).

Point being…If God can create the universe out of nothing, create man from the dust of the earth, be born of a virgin, and RAISE FROM THE TOMB alive and glorified on the 3rd day, then I am thinking God would have made real sure Jonah could survive in the belly of a whale for three days.

When I started high school - way back in 1966 - I went to a “Catholic” school which was run by the Christian Brothers. They started teaching us the same nonsense. I reasoned that, if I couldn’t take Gen 1-11 at face value, Why should I believe the rest of it. And if I couldn’t accept Genesis, why should I trust the rest of the Bible. Eventually I became an atheist. My faith was eventually restored but it was through the efforts of an Evangelical ministry. I didn’t fully return to the Catholic Church until 1987.

I don’t believe that every single word in the Bible is to be taken literally. The Psalms speak of the “hand of God” which is obviously poetic license. There are books like Tobit which use certain forms that indicate they are works of fiction. But these things are missing from Jonah and the early chapters of Genesis. There is no reason to not take them at face value except a reluctance to having the world think you are ignorant. Why bother. They already think it.

 

[razredge]

Tim Staples, the head Catholic Answers apologist has written this on the story of Jonah:

“Fiction” is not a good word to use in this context (in my opinion) in modern Western culture because folks often think of “Fiction” as equivalent to “not true.” The Church holds to the possibility that books like Jonah and Judith may well be extended parables or stories written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in order to relate certain truths for our salvation. This does not mean that these books are “not true” any more than we would say Jesus’ parables are “not true” because they are… parables. In other words, the parables of Jesus are not intended to tell of, for example, an actual “householder who planted a vineyard” (Matt. 21:33). They are intended to relate certain essential truths of the Faith. The same can be said of Jonah and Judith. We should note here that Catholics are free to hold a more historical view of these books as well. The Church has not definitively declared the matter in either direction. So opinions in either direction should be respected. As St. Augustine said… “in matters non-essential, liberty…” Of course, we would also do well to remember the axiom of St. Augustine that says we should avoid an interpretation of Scripture that would render the Scriptures a laughingtock. We should be careful to heed GOOD biblical scholarship. Moreover, we should be careful not to fall into the trap of the defenders of a Fundamentalist approach to Scripture who say, “Jesus believed Jonah was literal history because he said ‘as Jonah was in the belly of the whale…’” (cf. Matt. 12:40) I may speak of a character in a play or movie as: “Then the Count of Monte Christo said…” This does not mean I believe the character to have actually existed. The final point I would make here is that we should be careful to admit freedom of inquiry and opinion in this matter until the Church declares one way or the other.

And anyway as he says, the Church has not definitively pronounced on the matter so we are free to reject the historicity of the event.

 

[garysibio]

Tim Staples, the head Catholic Answers apologist has written this on the story of Jonah:

And anyway as he says, the Church has not definitively pronounced on the matter so we are free to reject the historicity of the event.

The fact remains that,% if you say that the book of Jonah is not historical, you are calling the Holy Spirit a liar. If. I don’t believe the Bible when it says he spent three days in some sea creature’s belly, what basis do I have for saying Jesus came back from the dead. And don’t say that we have Church authority for the latter because its authority comes from what Jesus said in Matt 16 and you’ve just told us we can’t assume the Bible is true.

 

[patg]

The fact remains that,% if you say that the book of Jonah is not historical, you are calling the Holy Spirit a liar. If. I don’t believe the Bible when it says he spent three days in some sea creature’s belly, what basis do I have for saying Jesus came back from the dead. And don’t say that we have Church authority for the latter because its authority comes from what Jesus said in Matt 16 and you’ve just told us we can’t assume the Bible is true.

The church is perfectly happy with allowing for fiction to be a valid vehicle for revelation. The church dogmatically states that the scriptures contain various types of writing and that we are to consider the literary form of the stories as an aid to understanding. In doing so, we can easily interpret the story of Jonah as a work of didactic fiction - a narrative which attempts to teach something using a fictional story from the author’s imagination.

The church clearly states that we must literally believe Jesus rose from the dead. It says NOTHING about the historicity of the story of Jonah, the flood, or a great many other fictional teaching narratives.

 

[NotWorthy]

The church is perfectly happy with allowing for fiction to be a valid vehicle for revelation. The church dogmatically states that the scriptures contain various types of writing and that we are to consider the literary form of the stories as an aid to understanding. In doing so, we can easily interpret the story of Jonah as a work of didactic fiction - a narrative which attempts to teach something using a fictional story from the author’s imagination.

The church clearly states that we must literally believe Jesus rose from the dead. It says NOTHING about the historicity of the story of Jonah, the flood, or a great many other fictional teaching narratives.

I feel there is a tight-rope that one must walk when talking of this.

It is foolish to say, “The story is fiction because there’s no way a man could live in the belly of a whale for 3 days”. If you believe that, then how can you refute someone who tells you, “there’s no way that God can become man and lower himself to death on a cross and then resurrect himself”?

Remember, all things were possible with God in the Old Testament times, just as all things are possible with God since the New Testament times.