Jorge Garcia, husband and father of two, deported Jan 15 2018 (MLK Day)

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Technically, Congress didn’t want to deal w DACA and immigration. BHO wrote an EO to bide time till Congress was responsible. It has to do immigration changes now, by March 5th
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
Nevertheless, DACA does not exist in our code of law.

Just not there.
 
I agree. I didn’t mean to imply it was a law. It was an EO. Congress has been dragging feet on Immigration laws. Dreamers happened. Children brought over illegally by parents.
Delayed Act C??? A??? DACA stands for words.
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
Technically, there isn’t a way for someone who arrived illegally to get their paperwork in order, short of leaving the country and trying again in a decade.
 
He was here illegally for 22 years. That’s 22 years to try to comply with the law. He chose not to do that. I have no sympathy for him.
 
FloridaAngler said:
He was here illegally for 22 years. That’s 22 years to try to comply with the law. He chose not to do that. I have no sympathy for him.
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He did not “choose” to be placed in an illegal position. His situation is probably unlike anything you have personally experienced, so I would be a little careful about declaring him unworthy of sympathy.

And by the way, most of the country disagrees with you, according to polls I cited earlier.
 
Because their statement makes no logical or moral sense. We are bound to take care of those closest to us first, therefore immigration policy must necessarily be ‘self-interested’.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Because their statement makes no logical or moral sense. We are bound to take care of those closest to us first, therefore immigration policy must necessarily be ‘self-interested’.
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I think the text you are referring to is
A nation may not simply decide that it wants to provide for its own people and no others.
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This text does not say policy cannot be “self-interested”. It just says that policy cannot be exclusively self-interested. With that proper understanding, the message from the bishops makes both logical and moral sense.
 
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FloridaAngler said:
He was here illegally for 22 years. That’s 22 years to try to comply with the law. He chose not to do that. I have no sympathy for him.
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It’s not for lack of trying. Another article states that he tried back in 2004 or so, through his wife, but due to lawyer incompetence, he ended up in deportation proceedings. Obviously I don’t know the details of his case so I can’t say whether that is true or not. But no matter, once you’re in deportation proceedings it’s hard to get out of that. Cancellation of deportation is possible but very very hard to get.

Don’t assume he hadn’t tried or done anything. Most undocumented immigrants want to do the right thing (whatever reason, economic, family, etc. made them desperate enough to come here illegally).
 
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The father is a Mexican citizen. His children are or can be Mexican citizens. The father is not a US citizen. He has been denied US citizenship. The possibilities flow from this reality. There is nothing unfair unless you want to get rid of all concepts of citizenship and borders.

Secondly the Golden rule is to be applied by imaging yourself in the other person’s situation and as a moral person. This is why it doesn’t require us to let go of all criminals. We don’t imagine ourself as a criminal and say of course we’d not want to be jailed for our crime. We imagine the kind of just treatment we deserve based on our actions and situations. Justice would be paying the price for your actions. In this case the man chose to marry and have kids knowing he was not a citizen.
 
You’re right. He did not choose to be placed into an illegal position. However, once he turned 18, he is considered responsible for his own actions under the law. That means that it was he who made the choice to evade the law for 22 years. So, again, no sympathy.
 
So, “if most illegal aliens want to do the right thing”, then why did they come here illegally? Why do they use other people’s social security numbers? Why do they stay here for years without any effort to become citizens or obey the law?
 
FloridaAngler said:
So, “if most illegal aliens want to do the right thing”, then why did they come here illegally? Why do they use other people’s social security numbers? Why do they stay here for years without any effort to become citizens or obey the law?
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You should ask them.

Not everyone uses a fake social security number, by the way. And many do try to fix their situation, but not a lot of options are available for them. Like I said, it’s not for lack of trying…it’s often for lack of options. Most people can’t regularize without a US citizen spouse, parent, or child. Many undocumented immigrants have undocumented spouses. Parents may or may not be here (and if here, likely undocumented as well). So they may have US-born children…but their children can’t petition and sponsor them until they are 21. It’s just the way it is right now, unfortunately.

Like I said, maybe you should ask them and not rely on other people explaining their reasons. I’ve spoken with many and came to my own conclusions. They are, after all, the primary source.
 
starlady said:
Not everyone uses a fake social security number, by the way.
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If they are illegal and don’t have a fake social security number how do they get a job, open a bank account, or otherwise be productive persons? It seems to me they are either using a fake SS number or part of the criminal underground.
 
exnihilo said:
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starlady:
Not everyone uses a fake social security number, by the way.
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If they are illegal and don’t have a fake social security number how do they get a job, open a bank account, or otherwise be productive persons? It seems to me they are either using a fake SS number or part of the criminal underground.
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Some employers agree to pay in cash and don’t request a social security number. Some people don’t work for an employer and just start doing services (clean houses, etc.) and people pay them directly for their services. It largely depends on the employer. Probably, I will admit, many if not most who are working for places like packing plants, construction, etc. are using a fake SSN. But that doesn’t apply to every single undocumented immigrant.

One can legally file taxes with an ITIN rather than SSN.

Some banks don’t require social security numbers - I know of one national bank chain in particular that states on their website that a SSN is not needed and that Mexican citizens can use their consulate ID card as their form of ID (instead of driver’s license). I’m sure they’re not the only ones.

You can find apartments that will rent to people without SSNs.
 
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exnihilo said:
number, by the way.

If they are illegal and don’t have a fake social security number how do they get a job, open a bank account, or otherwise be productive persons? It seems to me they are either using a fake SS number or part of the criminal underground.
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The US government has a program for these immigrants called individual tax identification numbers ( ITIN). It appears similar to a social security number. It is not a work authorization number. However, this government issued number does allow these immgrants to file taxes. And many banks accept these numbers for opening up bank accounts

 
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Allie1 said:
The US government has a program for these immigrants called individual tax identification numbers ( ITIN). It appears similar to a social security number. It is not a work authorization number. However, this government issued number does allow these immgrants to file taxes. And many banks accept these numbers for opening up bank accounts
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Interesting. So, if I withdraw my own money as cash from the bank the bankers are obligated to report me to the government. But an illegal can open a bank account no problem. These incongruent facts demonstrate the conspiracy to tacitly allow illegals carried out by our government.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
He did not “choose” to be placed in an illegal position.
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sure he did, when he didn’t leave under the voluntary order to leave.
LeafByNiggle said:
A nation may not simply decide that it wants to provide for its own people and no others.
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how much money do we send in aid? we are providing for others.

is violating our immigration policy the only way to provide for others?
 
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