Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible

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huck said:
Hello gazelam,
It seems to me that the book of Ether does make that claim. It ends with a big battle where all the inhabitants were killed.
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Hey Huck,
The Book of Ether does record a battle where all of the Jaredites were destroyed, except Coriantumr and Ether. Omni 21 noted that the Mulekites found Coriantumr and that he “dwelt with them for the space of nine moons”.
 
Of course.
I have studied it quite extensively and I don’t know how people believe it.
I’ve actually spoken to a couple Mormons about this. It seems they have no answer. They have faith. Which is fine but like you said it is pretty hard facts against this stuff.
I read the Book of Mormon once. It didn’t feel like scripture to me at all. More just some old English religious tale, like Paradise Lost or The Pilgrims Progress. Heavily influenced by scripture but definitely not real.
To be honest if the Book of Mormon was labeled as just a fictional religious allegory, which it is, I would actually be a fan of it!
 
Hello gazelum,
OK I was mistaken. After the big war there was one person left alive. How does that relate to your claim that “This statement assumes that the Book of Mormon peoples were the only people in Ancient America. The Book of Mormon makes no such claim.”
Hello Prodigal
I share your view with regards to the historicity of the BOM. Unlike you I found a great deal of value in it. This was in a time when I was investigating churches. It’s warning of priestcraft, it’s definition of what the actual gospel is helped me to see through various claims and counterclaims. I’m sorry you didn’t find the same value in it.
 
@gazelam

Well catechized non-LDS Christians.
Ether 9:19: And they also had horses and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.
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At the time of Christ, did horses and elephants exist in the New World? True or false.
 
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They obviously think we can’t or won’t discover the truth about their use of it for ourselves
 
There were no horses in the Americas until the 16th century when the Spanish brought them over to modern day Mexico. They are not in the historical record. Also, many of the weapons described weren’t invented yet.
I couldn’t be a Mormon because I am really into history and you basically need to defy historical record. They have these theories, Mormon apologists that is, but it is a pseudoscience sort of history. Like they could make a claim Bigfoot lived among them and it wouldn’t be all to shocking with some of the claims they make.
The Book of Mormon cites passages from Saint Paul when in the book it is about four centuries before Paul even was born.
I don’t get it honestly. There is no Hebrew blood in any natives from the Americas.
 
Thanks so much for your explanation. You’ve shed a lot of light on the topic. God bless you.
 
As promised, I’m reading and praying about the Book of Mormon as I have previously done dozens of times. I find it remarkable that Joe claims that all other churches are abominable and corrupt, that the plain and precious things have been lost from the Bible, yet the corrupted version was good enough to get plagiarized into the Book of Mormon when Joe supposedly had the inspiration to translate it correctly.
 
Prodigal1984 said:
A true prophet of God coming to restore Christianity wouldn’t tell people to read a Protestant Bible for one.
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Why not? In a highly Protestant area on the American frontier it would have been readily accessible. However, given the Joseph Smith translation (the very topic of this thread), and the additional writings from Old World prophets restored in the Book of Mormon (google Zenock, Zenos, Neum, and Ezias), the result is no longer a Bible recognized by a Protestant, which is what you state should be the case for a prophet.
Prodigal1984 said:
The entire movement is based off of a Protestant outlook on the scriptures.
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Here are 11 Latter-day Saint beliefs from the Book of Mormon that I assume most, if not all Protestants would reject.
  1. The true church must be named after Christ (3 Nephi 27:8)
  2. Christ visited America, fulfilling John 10:16.
  3. The canon of scripture is not closed.
  4. Joseph who was sold into Egypt prophesied that God would raise up a seer named Joseph, whose father is also named Joseph. (2 Nephi 3:5-15)
  5. Jesus’ spirit is in the shape of a man. (Ether 3:16)
  6. The Holy Ghost is in the shape of a man. (1 Nephi 11:11)
  7. The Fall of Adam and Eve was necessary for them and us to return to Heaven. (2 Nephi 2:25)
  8. Adam and Eve would not be able to have children had they remained in the Garden of Eden. (2 Nephi 2:23)
  9. The New Jerusalem will be established in the Americas before the second coming of Christ. (3 Nephi 20:22)
  10. The specific prayers for administering the communion bread and wine are provided. (Moroni 4, 5)
  11. Mention is made of four Old World prophets – Zenos, Zenock, Neum and Ezias – not mentioned in the Old Testament.
Prodigal1984 said:
They throw Bible verses at you trying to support their claims as if they are candy.
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Are there any serious Christians who do not? Have you read the CCC lately?
 
Where was it written that Quakers live on the moon?
That is the only prophesy of their prophet I ever enjoyed.
 
You do realize Smith’s first vision account was changed about 10 times before it was written in 1842?
You do realize the Book of Abraham is nothing more than a funeral rite?
You do know Smith was a Freemason the notion a prophet will be a Mason is blasphemous. You’re temple endownents are basically just Mason rituals. Even symbols on the temples are the same. This isn’t some conspiracy even Mormons who are Masons acknowledge it.

Look, one of my best friends was a missionary for that church and left towards the end. I luckily helped him along with others him see there was truth. For a while he was just basically an athiest. The unfortunate thing from what he tells me is that most former Mormons are just atheists. And it makes sense. I don’t have all of the answers, he gave a testimony of his leaving the Mormon religion at our young adult Catholic group I’m in, and that is some bizarre stuff. The whole Kolob thing . He also does YouTube videos for ex Mormons.
That’s classic 19th century America second great awakening rhetoric. Becoming Gods etc. That is what people do when they can’t explain Gods being is they say we can become them as well.

Plus they run around talking about an apostasy but then their own definition of an apostasy proves it happened right in Mormonism after Smith’s death. Whose to say the church in Utah is correct and not in Missouri?
 
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gazelam said:
Are there any serious Christians who do not? Have you read the CCC lately?
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Except you cite stuff from a book which wasn’t even settled on its canon until 393, long after the apostasy. Thus I don’t know why you even accept the books of the Bible. Surely a church in apostasy wasn’t right.
You all throw James verse around, yet using a KJV, which is a Protestant Bible. You don’t accept the books the early Church accepted but you say there is an open canon but only use the books Luther said were fit for the bible. However Luther also strived to remove Hebrews, Jude, Revelation, and James which he called an epistle of straw. His successors didn’t remove the four new testament books like they had the old testament but had they? It wouldn’t have even been there for Smith to have read. Is it really that fragile of a situation?
 
Joseph Smith was using the KJV, and his translation - and adding books to Isaiah, was wrong.
 
njlisa said:
@gazelam

Well catechized non-LDS Christians.
Ether 9:19: And they also had horses and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.
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So, the Book of Ether is an account of a people who came to the New World shortly after the Tower of Babel (roughly 2200BC?) and destroyed itself sometime around 500-300BC (my best back of the envelope guess). Therefore, this verse would not pertain to the time of Christ. To answer your question, I do believe the verse is accurate and will be shown to be true someday, just like barley, cement, and ancient metal records were discovered to be used in Ancient America after the Book of Mormon came forth. In John Sorenson’s book Mormon’s Codex the author notes on pages 313, 314 that mastodon remains in Utah and Florida have been dated to 5000BC, in the Great Lakes region to 4000BC, in the Mississippi Valley area to 3300BC, and again in Florida to 100BC. Mastodon and horse bones were found in the Eastern Yucatan dated as late as 1800BC. Does that work for you?

Serious question: Let’s say that there are a total of 200 historical claims in the Book of Mormon and there are so far 5 historical claims that have been independently verified. How many more independently verified claims would you need before you gave the Book of Mormon serious consideration? 2 more? 14 more? 157 more? Thanks in advance.
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You’re Mormon? An old joke, now you guys know what Jews feel! No harsh feelings, I’ll read what you have to say now.
 
Okay, the problem with the Book of Mormon is that he made many mistakes, like adding tons of books to Isaiah which don’t exist in our records, and predicting the triumph of his bank, which failed, and lots of people lost everything. He also killed a man with a gun before his death. How can you follow him? Maybe I’m missing something, I’d like to learn more though, please, no offense.

Well, I’ve also heard that moon thing, and Mormons should answer that, somehow, not sure how, but just should.

Both our traditions, though, heavily focus on family values and tradition. That’s a great similarity.
 
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Is it true that Mormons believe they’re Jews? And that Smith was born on Chanukah?
 
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Of course they should. A prophet saying that is disturbing. Then Brigham Young said people lived on the sun!!!
And then one of their prophets in the 60s said no man ever would walk on the moon. But Quakers already live there I thought?
The last prophet said calling them Mormons is fine. Now the new old man says no only members of church of jesus Christ latter day saints. Funny he was pissed in the 90s when they first promoted Mormon as the name. Makes you wonder if it is from God or his own opinions.
Never heard of God changing his mind so much on such trivial things. I wonder what God has in store with the next prophet who is elected by the way. This is an elected prophet. This isn’t an office like the pope. They literally think gods prophet on earth is just elected.
 
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