joyce meyer

[TheRealJuliane]

In what way does the Catholic church specifically forbid prosperity?

What is wrong with having a good and successful life on earth?

Although I don’t believe in the teachings of Calvin or Luther…Hey. Maybe I AM in the wrong seating section.

You KNOW very well there is nothing wrong per se with prosperity. It is the prosperity GOSPEL that is heretical. When preaching becomes nothing BUT prosperity, it’s no longer to do with Jesus Christ.

Here’s a question for you: When was the last time you heard Joel Osteen preach on the problem of SIN? He really can’t, can he, because he has to pump up his audience so they support his ministry happily and freely. He doesn’t want them to feel bad, because God loves a cheerful giver. Or, at least Osteen and the other mega-church preachers love a cheerful giver.

Another one: See any sign of Jesus on that stage of his? Like, a cross?

His shows are motivational talks with a sprinkling of Scripture thrown on top. Sometimes it’s barely a sprinkling.

 

[Irish_Polock]

I hear you brother… I hear you very well.

I also have found strengths and richness in the Evangelical churches which we often lack in most Catholic parishes…
And these things are maybe secondary but they certainly are not minor… wherefore I will keep having the company of Evangelicals and join their meetings and services if I again have the opportunity…
I have for some periods in my life been going to Pentecostal and messianic congregations, and have there experienced things which humbled me as a Catholic who came with some pride and wanted to teach them,… I was the one who was inspired by them… and since they were most often just using the Bible in their sermons and talk, I could find little fault with their words… (Mind you we do not have the same problem with anti-Catholicism here in Europe that many Americans seem to experience and neither are we Catholics scared of our Protestant brethren.)

I know for a fact that many Evangelicals admire Catholics… and that many Catholics admire Evangelicals. I know because I experienced this. The first time I was in my Pentecostal cell group one young man said: “Hey Grace, its so cool that you are here… it was a Catholic saint that evangelised this country!” Everything took place in this spirit of friendship and mutual affection. I have met others again who willingly read my Catholic books, discussed Scripture with me, went and prayed in my church with me, and did you know Theresa of Avila is quite popular in some evangelical groups now?

. How I wish we could all come together more and admit that we need each others gifts in order to have the fullness of the parish life that we all long for… They certainly need our Sacraments, we certainly need their wisdom on evangelisation, preaching and fellowship… and faith really…

I met a normal evangelical man who came to pick up his kid from daycare. The daycare lady sat him down and said: “Im sorry, you have to find another one to take care of Joey, because I have gotten cancer”. The man said calmly: “We have a God who performs miracles. Do you mind if I pray for you?” And so he prayed for her right then and there… and she was healed. This was not a story about a munk from the middle ages, but a normal married man anno 2005 who told me of his own experience.

Another man in my vicinity, a farmer, experienced a horrible accident where his little boy was driven over and died on the spot. The father lifted up his boy, ran into the house with him and screemed to God for 30-40 minutes and the boy became tranformed and “rose from the dead” before his eyes… Again, this happend to a normal family some 15-20 years ago.

Such testimonies were widespread in the Church that I attended… and there were many young people who were on fire with the Gospels and joyful… not just young women mind you, but both genders… I was really impressed. And I will not keep a lid on it!
They need the Sacraments, yes…but they should not come into our churches and be starved in many other ways as a result…
We need reevangelisation among ourselves if we wanna convince other Christians to join us.
God bless you brother

You know, I am not familiar with the church in Europe outside of Belgium, but, from your above quoted post, it would seem that it has fallen into ruin… Even in the America’s, I don’t feel that it has gone as far as you tell, and that is saying a lot.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You know, I am not familiar with the church in Europe outside of Belgium, but, from your above quoted post, it would seem that it has fallen into ruin… Even in the America’s, I don’t feel that it has gone as far as you tell, and that is saying a lot.

That was my impression as well.

 

[GraceDK]

You know, I am not familiar with the church in Europe outside of Belgium, but, from your above quoted post, it would seem that it has fallen into ruin… Even in the America’s, I don’t feel that it has gone as far as you tell, and that is saying a lot.

Can you elaborate.
Gone far how?

Do you mean to tell me that if I just come to America I will see all the wonderful elements that I know from evangelical churches in the catholic church?

Actually American Catholicism is for us overhere in some ways a mixing pot of good the worst and the best. We admire your pro-life activity, your better preachers and more mass attendance… but we do not like to hear about your petty “war” with other Christians and theirs with you. We don’t like to hear of catholic groups that look like fundamentalist groups where a man hardly can change a diaper or carry his child or where women who doesn’t wear skirts are somehow viewed as lesser Christians. ( I have heard this from young Catholic conservative women who are Americans)…

One of the strength here in Europe is the ecumenical spirit. And you cant be truly ecumenical if you dare not set foot in other peoples churches or pray with them. Perhaps because the religious wars of Christianity took place here, and we realize that slandering our brethren will not be a good witness to anyone. besides… we have a huge problem with growing agnosticism and militant secualrism, so we Christians have to stick together.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Maybe I’m not being as ‘charitable’ as I should, but I am in genuine pain over what I see here.

This post will be misunderstood; people will continue bashing whom they please.

Thanks to this thread, and others like it, I now understand atheists.

I now understand widespread dislike of Catholics.

The same people who claim to defend private property bash ‘prosperity’ — but only if a successful Protestant speaks about it. (and yet these same people continue to say we need to ‘help the poor.’ If everyone’s poor—how?) This is too big a discord for me to swallow.

I am appalled by what I see. Joyce Meyer says over and over, that it is un-Christian to be jealous of another’s success. She is right. Trashing her or Tim Tebow or Whitney Houston is not only wrong, but it is not Catholic.

Would Benedict say what many of you are saying? In the way that you are saying it?

Since I was a small child, I WANTED to be a Catholic. Had I joined CAF, and seen what Catholics are really like, I doubt I would have entered RCIA.

Yet I am no troll. Look at my post count. My stand on issues has been much the same since I joined, though I now struggle to be kinder than in the past, and mostly fail.

I am a person being driven away from the Church by those IN the Church.

No Protestant could drive me from this forum OR the church. It took Catholics to accomplish that.

 

[robwar]

Maybe I’m not being as ‘charitable’ as I should, but I am in genuine pain over what I see here.

This post will be misunderstood; people will continue bashing whom they please.

Thanks to this thread, and others like it, I now understand atheists.

I now understand widespread dislike of Catholics.

The same people who claim to defend private property bash ‘prosperity’ — but only if a successful Protestant speaks about it. (and yet these same people continue to say we need to ‘help the poor.’ If everyone’s poor—how?) This is too big a discord for me to swallow.

I am appalled by what I see. Joyce Meyer says over and over, that it is un-Christian to be jealous of another’s success. She is right. Trashing her or Tim Tebow or Whitney Houston is not only wrong, but it is not Catholic.

Would Benedict say what many of you are saying? In the way that you are saying it?

Since I was a small child, I WANTED to be a Catholic. Had I joined CAF, and seen what Catholics are really like, I doubt I would have entered RCIA.

Yet I am no troll. Look at my post count. My stand on issues has been much the same since I joined, though I now struggle to be kinder than in the past, and mostly fail.

I am a person being driven away from the Church by those IN the Church.

No Protestant could drive me from this forum OR the church. It took Catholics to accomplish that.

that is very sad, I am not sure what you mean by bashing Whitney Houston. She died by abusing drugs and alcohol and what her lifestyle lead her into. If you think that the Catholic Church is the one true Church of Christ then you would join and it is not based on good or bad behavior of anyone else, in or out of the Church. There are good and bad CAtholics as well as Protestants. This is not the what is being discussed here. I did not join the Catholic Church because I thought all Catholics follow their faith perfectly. Why I joined the one true Church that is established by Christ. Receiving Jesus, body and soul and divinity is more than enough. God loves us but He loves us enough not to leave us as we are but to change us. Instead of listening to Joyce Meyers why don’t you read and listen and research the Catholic faith, the many wonderful Saints and the many wonderful books out there that explain the faith. I am feeling sorry for you and I am praying for you. You are letting your own anger keep you out. That is the problem when you have spent too much time listening to heresy of the “property Gospel”. i’ve been there and done that. God Bless you and I am praying for you.

 

[GraceDK]

Maybe I’m not being as ‘charitable’ as I should, but I am in genuine pain over what I see here.

This post will be misunderstood; people will continue bashing whom they please.

Thanks to this thread, and others like it, I now understand atheists.

I now understand widespread dislike of Catholics.

The same people who claim to defend private property bash ‘prosperity’ — but only if a successful Protestant speaks about it. (and yet these same people continue to say we need to ‘help the poor.’ If everyone’s poor—how?) This is too big a discord for me to swallow.

I am appalled by what I see. Joyce Meyer says over and over, that it is un-Christian to be jealous of another’s success. She is right. Trashing her or Tim Tebow or Whitney Houston is not only wrong, but it is not Catholic.

Would Benedict say what many of you are saying? In the way that you are saying it?

Since I was a small child, I WANTED to be a Catholic. Had I joined CAF, and seen what Catholics are really like, I doubt I would have entered RCIA.

Yet I am no troll. Look at my post count. My stand on issues has been much the same since I joined, though I now struggle to be kinder than in the past, and mostly fail.

I am a person being driven away from the Church by those IN the Church.

No Protestant could drive me from this forum OR the church. It took Catholics to accomplish that.

Please don’t leave brother. Promis you wont leave!!!

The Church is not CAF.
People here say all kinds of nonsense out of ignorance, arrogance or personal woundedness… things they would never say in real life.

We are all fallen sinners. The Evangelical forums are no better… neither are the atheistic ones… Believe me, I have also tried being there.

It matters not what people think so much… find yourself a good Catholic Charismatic group… they will rejoice over both Catholic and Evenagelical riches together with you…
Charismatics are defined by being good at listening to the Holy Spirit… they are not anti-Protestant… and neither am I.
Please do not leave the Church.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

that is very sad, I am not sure what you mean by bashing Whitney Houston. She died by abusing drugs and alcohol and what her lifestyle lead her into. If you think that the Catholic Church is the one true Church of Christ then you would join and it is not based on good or bad behavior of anyone else, in or out of the Church. There are good and bad CAtholics as well as Protestants. This is not the what is being discussed here. I did not join the Catholic Church because I thought all Catholics follow their faith perfectly. Why I joined the one true Church that is established by Christ. Receiving Jesus, body and soul and divinity is more than enough. God loves us but He loves us enough not to leave us as we are but to change us. Instead of listening to Joyce Meyers why don’t you read and listen and research the Catholic faith, the many wonderful Saints and the many wonderful books out there that explain the faith. I am feeling sorry for you and I am praying for you. You are letting your own anger keep you out. That is the problem when you have spent too much time listening to heresy of the “property Gospel”. i’ve been there and done that. God Bless you and I am praying for you.

I am sad, but I have seen this before. I know Catholics who have been “won over to Christ” by evangelizing by Baptists…And many have turned away from the truth because of these mega-“churches.” It confuses so many…They see entertainment and think, “Why isn’t OUR Church like that?” when we have so much more than that…Entertainment is ALL THEY HAVE to offer you…That, and FEELING GOOD. But it is false, a false thing, a show only. There are great Catholic shows on EWTN. It’s true that we don’t have the fancy entertainment and radio shows…But EWTN is on Sirius. I would rather go without ever hearing any music again than lose even one saint to pray to.

 

[GraceDK]

I am sad, but I have seen this before. I know Catholics who have been “won over to Christ” by evangelizing by Baptists…And many have turned away from the truth because of these mega-“churches.” It confuses so many…They see entertainment and think, “Why isn’t OUR Church like that?” when we have so much more than that…Entertainment is ALL THEY HAVE to offer you…That, and FEELING GOOD. But it is false, a false thing, a show only. There are great Catholic shows on EWTN. It’s true that we don’t have the fancy entertainment and radio shows…But EWTN is on Sirius. I would rather go without ever hearing any music again than lose even one saint to pray to.

No… as a matter of fact some of us have been evangelised into new life by people who were not Catholic… these people didn’t entertain us but in a credible way handed us what they had, namely a truly living faith in Jesus Christ.

Because of this fact, what can we say, other than you are rude but you don’t know any better.

I sometimes feel like some Catholics have made the Church into a god of it own which they worship and which they evangelise about instead of preaching the Gospel about the saving act of God in history (this is also my only issue with Catholic Answers …
its really sad.

 

[robwar]

I am sad, but I have seen this before. I know Catholics who have been “won over to Christ” by evangelizing by Baptists…And many have turned away from the truth because of these mega-“churches.” It confuses so many…They see entertainment and think, “Why isn’t OUR Church like that?” when we have so much more than that…Entertainment is ALL THEY HAVE to offer you…That, and FEELING GOOD. But it is false, a false thing, a show only. There are great Catholic shows on EWTN. It’s true that we don’t have the fancy entertainment and radio shows…But EWTN is on Sirius. I would rather go without ever hearing any music again than lose even one saint to pray to.

you go Girl! and you put it very well. I came from those places and what some of the posts from some of the others said is that the wished to part of churches that “talk” about healing etc. What they don’t realize or know in these “healing” churches is that there is not 100% healing or miracles. When your spouse has cancer or if your kid is killed in a terrible accident, you won’t be shown compassion but told that you did not have enough faith, you must have had a “negative” confession, etc etc. That is the road the faith/prosperity message goes!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No… as a matter of fact some of us have been evangelised into new life by people who were not Catholic… these people didn’t entertain us but in a credible way handed us what they had, namely a truly living faith in Jesus Christ.

Because of this fact, what can we say, other than you are rude but you don’t know any better.

I sometimes feel like some Catholics have made the Church into a god of it own which they worship and which they evangelise about instead of preaching the Gospel about the saving act of God in history (this is also my only issue with Catholic Answers …
its really sad.

Tell me how I am being rude! Did I say anything rude to you? I did not! I have said that these “churches” (yes, I put them into quotes because they are not truly houses of the Lord) are shows and not substance, and that their form of evangelizing can be tricky for Catholics who yearn for something other than pure truth. How you interpret that as rude is beyond me. I guess any criticism of something you hold dear qualifies as rude. But it is not. And also, nice try at the subtle insult of telling me I don’t know any better, i.e. that I am stupid. You are wrong about that, my dear. I DO know better. That is why I don’t pay any heed to Protestant preachers. They preach to their audiences, I am Catholic.

Would you stand up for Mario Arroyo in the same way? If a Protestant were to say “Mary is not worth of worship” would you counter that the way you have defended Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer on this thread? I do not want you to answer that here, just think about it yourself. You have been so complimentary of these entertainers (and that is what they are), and quite derogatory of the Church. That is the sign of someone who has one foot out the door already.

The Church is not my God, GraceDK. You see what you look for. It is not God for most Catholics. But we have a Church with over 2000 years of history - established by Christ Himself - why would we look anywhere else for truth?

 

[Bix]

Sailor Kenshin-
Please don’t leave! We need people like you who aren’t afraid to say their opinion. Like you, I never realized the amount of … Dislike or discord regarding non Catholics. It almost pushed me away completely until I met some very kind people here and spoke to my priest. I have tried my best not to post in this thread, but wow…

For all those bashing Joyce Meyer- I’ve only seen her show once or twice, but her denomination doesn’t make her any less of a Christian(or a person) nor does her prosperity. If we were all poor who would pay to build and maintain the churches, donate or buy from CAF, EWTN and so on? Each of us comes to know Christ in our own way. What if a man dying in a hospital sees her on tv and accepts the Lord into his life? Is that not worthy? Is he not worthy?

Last week, I watched an old episode of Mother Angelica on EWTN and she spoke about how Protestants were missing the sacraments, but also said how much Catholics cold learn from them and their personal relationship with Jesus. So, for all those looking for Catholic resources as to why we should disregard all things Protestant - check out Mother Angelica.

The only person who knows the whole truth is God. Period. He speaks to each of us uniquely so we all have our own personal experience with him. These experiences are meant to be shared with one another, to help one another, to console one another, heal one another and so on. In the end the glory is our Lord’s. Do you think treating and bashing other Christians is really a good idea?

Take a look around you at the world today. The number is whittling down. Do you think Jesus would look down and be pleased with all those making accusations about others you don’t even know? Do you think anyone considering conversion to Catholicism would read these postings and be inspired by the love of Christians? What kind of example are you trying to make by judging others and deciding you already know all the answers?

We are told in the Bible how to treat our enemies. How to treat fellow Christians- it is quite simple- like it or not they are your brothers and sisters in Christ. I can only imagine the tears shed over how we treat one another. All that is being created here is only more division. Jesus didn’t speak to the thief on the cross this way. He didn’t judge him unfit. Why do we think we are worthy to do so? The only thing accomplished here has been pushing someone away from Him.

(Ephesians 4:31-5:2 ) "Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you. Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

 

[smallgirl01]

The one time I watched it came off as the name it and claim it preaching. She went on about how she was waiting for someone to donate a million dollors. Complete turnoff.

this is the basis for most of these new prophets/evangelists, in Africa these people are quite too many and are deceiving especially the young generation.

 

[Bix]

this is the basis for most of these new prophets/evangelists, in Africa these people are quite too many and are deceiving especially the young generation.

There are too many Christians in Africa?

 

[smallgirl01]

it is not the person we are bashing but it is the way of teaching and most of what they represent…

 

[Bix]

it is not the person we are bashing but it is the way of teaching and most of what they represent…

Okay, so you’re just bashing the way they spek about Jesus?

And most of what they represent- a Christian?

 

[robwar]

pointing out heresy is not rude or “bashing” a false teacher. Joyce and Joel are just the latest out of the wealth/health heresy. If you think the those of us pointing this out, you should google what other Protestants say about this these so called teachers. Speaking of rude and negative, it is amazing that those support her on this thread have bashed the mass as boring and filled with sick old people, and mocked the emphasis on the Eucharist and Catholics don’t know their Bible, I have been called ignorant even though my journey into the one true Church of Christ is from this sort of thing and I have not seen one legitimate point in support of what Joyce and Joel teach except that they are popular and they make their supporters feel good. very sad and this is what listening to heresy does to a person over time.

 

[Bix]

pointing out heresy is not rude or “bashing” a false teacher. Joyce and Joel are just the latest out of the wealth/health heresy. If you think the those of us pointing this out, you should google what other Protestants say about this these so called teachers. Speaking of rude and negative, it is amazing that those support her on this thread have bashed the mass as boring and filled with sick old people, and mocked the emphasis on the Eucharist and Catholics don’t know their Bible, I have been called ignorant even though my journey into the one true Church of Christ is from this sort of thing and I have not seen one legitimate point in support of what Joyce and Joel teach except that they are popular and they make their supporters feel good. very sad and this is what listening to heresy does to a person over time.

Are you referring to my post?

1 ) I never called anyone rude.

1. Shocker- Converted from Baptist (I’m sure you’re not surprised)
2. I’ve never bashed the mass, called it boring or filled with old sick people. I love the tradition and reverence it displays.
3. I don’t believe anyone in this thread mocked the Eucharist or Catholics. I believe someone said they were saddened by some Catholic attitudes towards others.
4. Your last statement is erroneous.

 

[GraceDK]

Tell me how I am being rude! Did I say anything rude to you? I did not!

**This is rude: “Entertainment is ALL THEY HAVE to offer you…That, and FEELING GOOD. But it is false, a false thing, a show only”.
Because when you say such things you put into question the faith many of us have found in those churches… we did indeed not get a “show”… we got Jesus Christ preached to us in a good and engaging way. **

I have said that these “churches” (yes, I put them into quotes because they are not truly houses of the Lord) are shows and not substance,

**There is always substance where the Gospel is preached… I have been to many evaneglical churches and I simply don’t agree with you at all. **

and that their form of evangelizing can be tricky for Catholics who yearn for something other than pure truth.

Pure truth… sounds good to me though… especially if you have never been evangelized.

How you interpret that as rude is beyond me. I guess any criticism of something you hold dear qualifies as rude.

No, that is not so. But what you said is rude… its as rude as when Protestants come into Catholic churches and start to generalize and say “all they do there is a show”… would you not find that rude?

But it is not. And also, nice try at the subtle insult of telling me I don’t know any better, i.e. that I am stupid. You are wrong about that, my dear. I DO know better. That is why I don’t pay any heed to Protestant preachers. They preach to their audiences, I am Catholic.

To their audiences huh? You mean our brothers and sisters. And when the Catholic priest preaches, he preaches to whom? His flock? I don’t think you are stupid. Not at all… I think though, that if you had seen and experienced what I have, you would not be speaking like you do…

Would you stand up for Mario Arroyo in the same way?

Sorry, I don’t know who it is

If a Protestant were to say “Mary is not worth of worship” would you counter that the way you have defended Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer on this thread?

**I have not defended Joel Osteen, for I haven’t any knowlege about him. I have defended Joyce Mayer a bit but more than that I have stood up against what I feel is a generel bashing of assemblies which are not Catholic.
To your question, would I stand up for the Catholics? OF COURSE! Look at other threads. This is the whole point of being Catholic and heeding the call to have a heart for unity also, that you do not stand silent when a brother or sister is slandered or generalizations made. I have met people that slandered the Catholic Church in the same way that you do other churches here… they also say, just like you: the Catholic Church is not a real church… I have been surrounded by Protestant and atheist majority for years, even my family is Protestant… I have defended and explained the Catholic faith sooo many times. How could you think differently. Is it really either or for you?. **

I do not want you to answer that here, just think about it yourself. You have been so complimentary of these entertainers (and that is what they are), and quite derogatory of the Church. That is the sign of someone who has one foot out the door already.

Honey, I have a foot out the door when I say I have. Petty oppinions are found in all groups, and I certainly will not follow any of the people who say such things. I follow Jesus Christ and He has led me to the Catholic Church. Again I think you are rude for implying I have one foot out of the door… how would you feel if I said that to you? Not good, I assume. I have not been derogatory of the Church… I have pointed out that the behaviour and double standards of some Catholics seem rather disburing yes, that I have said… and the reason why it hurts me more than some of the nonsense in other groups is that I my self am Catholic…

The Church is not my God, GraceDK. You see what you look for. It is not God for most Catholics. But we have a Church with over 2000 years of history - established by Christ Himself - why would we look anywhere else for truth?

**Read any book written by reverts, Juliane… or even look at CAF within the last month. You see Catholics complaining about coldness in the churches from other brothers and sisters, you see them speaking about not being edified or the young people leaving or priests not daring to speak about many things… Christians who are most eager to share the Gospel are those who will win converts. It has always been so.
I know a young scolar, baptised Catholic, who used to live a very secular life. One day he met some Jesus freaks and they evangelised him so that he had a personal fantastic new life. He came home to his Catholic parents, on fire with joy, and they were very upset. They were not upset when he was only nominally Catholic and living in sin… but now when he became Evaneglical he was even struck in his face by his angry father… He spent years with the Evangelicals until reading some books by Scott Hahn got him back …and he still has a good relationship with the Evangelicals and sometimes struggle with the stiffness of his new parish. There are many of us like that… I personally know severel. We are not standing with one foot out… but we have fantastic memories from evangelical churches and when Catholic slander these, it just seems inappropriate.
**

 

[wendy_w]

I’m a convert to the Catholic faith. I joined in my 20’s reverted in my 30’s. I was not raised in a once saved always saved church so I have never understood that. I was raised to stay away from sin and when I failed to ask God to forgive me. Maybe being a convert I have a different take on this. Joyce Meyers is not my cup of tea but my sister a non-catholic likes her and maybe she helps bring her closer to God. You never know who God may use to bring you closer to him and hopefully to the church at some point. I do know that I have loved Jesus since I was a child and had a very spritaul experience at 13. I think other Christians have a deep love for Christ. I went to a fundraisier last night for the local crisis pregnancy center. The speaker was not catholic she didn’t bash any faith and if I won’t have went I would have missed her amazing story of conversion on Life issues. I believe if you know your Catholic faith and study that, no one can lead you away. Other Christian have good messages to share and some of them are much more devoted to Christ than some Catholics I know. Just my opinion.