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zerinus
Guest
Because there is no biblical precedent nor commandment for it. Did Jesus or any of His prophets and Apostles ever pray to, or command us to pray to the Holy Spirit? I don’t know of even one instance.
zerinus
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zerinus
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majick275
Guest
still dodging that praying to Jesus issue. Well all can certainly see now how mormonism and the book Of Mormon contradicts itself. Thanks amgid/zerinus once again you havr shown us yourself how the LDS church cannot be true.
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Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
There’s plenty of instances of people praying in the Spirit
Not only do believers pray in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is also given to those who ask through prayer-- and he intercedes for believers through prayer too.
So saying that there’s no examples of people ever praying to the Holy Spirit is entirely missing the point that God the Holy Spirit is enabling us to pray in the first place. In fact, if God the Holy Spirit was not within you, you wouldn’t even be praying at all.
There’s also, of course, many instances in the Scriptures where the characteristics of the Holy Spirit powerfully match the characteristics of God too. In fact, it is overwhelmingly apparent in the Scriptures that the Holy Spirit is God.
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tequilamac
Guest
Litany of the Holy Spirit
Lord have mercy on us.
Christ have mercy on us.
Lord have mercy on us.
Father All Powerful (respond to all with: Have mercy on us.)
Jesus, Eternal Son of The Father, Redeemer of the World,
Spirit of the Father and The Son, boundless Life of both,
Holy Trinity, Save us, Sanctify us, Hear Us!
Holy Spirit, Who proceedest from The Father and The Son enter our hearts,
Holy Spirit Who art equal to the Father and The Son enter our hearts,
Promise of God the Father,
Ray of Heavenly Light,
Author of all Good,
Source of Heavenly Water,
Consuming Fire,
Ardent Charity,
Spiritual Unction,
Spirit of Love and Truth,
Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding,
Spirit of Counsel and Fortitude,
Spirit of Knowledge and Piety,
Spirit of the Fear of the Lord,
Spirit of Grace and Prayer,
Spirit of Peace and Meekness,
Spirit of Modesty and Innocence,
Holy Spirit the Comforter,
Holy Spirit the Sanctifier,
Holy Spirit Who Governest the Church,
Gift of God the Most High,
Spirit who fillest the universe,
Spirit of the adoption of the children of God,
Holy Spirit inspire us with horror of sin,
Holy Spirit come and renew the face of the earth,
Holy Spirit shed thy light in our souls,
Holy Spirit engrave Thy Law in our hearts,
Holy Spirit inflame us with the flame of Thy Love,
Holy Spirit open to us the treasures of thy Graces,
Holy Spirit teach us to pray well,
Holy Spirit enlighten us with Thy Heavenly Inspirations,
Holy Spirit lead us in the way of salvation,
Holy Spirit grant us the only necessary knowledge,
Holy Spirit inspire in us the practice of good,
Holy Spirit grant us the merits of all virtues,
Holy Spirit make us persevere in justice,
Holy Spirit be Thou our everlasting reward,
Lamb of God who takest away the sins of the world, send us Thy Holy Spirit.
Lamb of God who takest away the sins of the world, pour down into our souls the gifts
of the Holy Spirit.
Lamb of God who takest away the sins of the world, grant us the Spirit of Wisdom and piety.
Come Holy Spirit! Fill the hearts of Thy Faithful.
And enkindle in them the fire of thy Love.
Let Us Pray:
Grant O Merciful Father, that Thy Divine Spirit enlighten, inflame, and purify us that He may penetrate us with His Heavenly Dew and make us fruitful in good works; through Our lord Jesus Christ, Thy Son Who with Thee; in the unity of the Same Spirit… Liveth and Reigneth God, world without end. Amen.
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Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
Amen.
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Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
Mr. Ex said:zerinus:
Mr. Ex:
Why not?
zerinus:
Mr. Ex Nihilo:
See this post…
Then this post…
Then this post…
Then this post…
Then this post…
Then this post…
Then this post…
Then we come to this…
Mr. Ex:
And, finally, we come almost right back to the beginning…
Mr. Ex:
By the way, I’m still waiting for answers to these questions zerinus.zerinus:
I think you still have to answer the question of why Abraham was circumsized even though he already had faith.
I also think you need to answer why little children could be circumcised even though they didn’t have faith.
And I think you need to answer why baptism is not linked with circumcision in Christian theology even though the Christian Scriptures theologically link the two together.
Once you’ve answered these questions, then I think we can go into the direction of discussing the dead being baptized.
P.S., I’m still wondering about this too…
And this comes right back to the most important questions…
Why do Mormons baptize the dead anyway?
If baptism requires faith, then can the dead have faith?
And if baptism doesn’t require faith, then why can’t little children be baptized?
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zerinus
Guest
There is a vast difference between praying IN the Spirit and praying TO the Spirit. Praying IN the Spirit means praying under the influence of the Spirit. To pray TO the Spirit means to address the Spirit as the object of our worship. If you can’t tell the difference between the two, then perhaps I am wasting my time debating anything with you.
All your questions had previously been answered. I don’t really need to answer them again at all. But I will do so one more time.
We do not “baptize the dead”. We perform vicarious baptisms on behalf of the dead.
Yes. I have already explained to you before that the dead can have faith, and they can also repent.
Baptism does require faith; and it also requires repentance. The dead can do both those two things. Little children can neither sin nor repent; although they may have a childlike faith in God, depending on their age.
zerinus
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Karin
Guest
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PaulDupre
Guest
A prayer to the Holy Spirit:
God bless,
Paul
From the Nicene Creed:
Whenever you are stressed, say “Come, Holy Spirit!”. It really works.
God bless,
Paul
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tequilamac
Guest
Little children sin all the time. And they are rather better at repentance then most adults.
We pray with, in and through the Holy Spirit. Period.
The Holy Spirit is the third distinct Person in the One Godhead. Why if we pray to God and pray to Jesus, both distinct persons in the Godhead would we ignore the Holy Spirit and refuse to pray TO Him?
We also pray with, in and through Jesus, and with, in and through God.
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Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
Getting a but touchy there zerinus.
Can anyone but a divinity be blasphemed?
If only a deity can be blasphemed, then why do Scriptures say that whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven?
Doesn’t this sound very familiar to what will happen when people misuse the name of God, one of the very commandments for that matter?
Old Testament:
New Testament:
Sound familiar?
No. Actually, they haven’t been answered.
But if this is going to boil down to more answers like “Because the Lord has commanded us not to!” or “So obeying the commandments of God is not logical enough for you? Sorry, for me it is!”, you can save your energy.
I am obeying the commandments of God. You are not.
What exactly does vicarious baptisms on behalf of the dead mean?
Why can’t you perform vicarious baptisms on behalf of little babies?
Actually, please forgive me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall you explaining this to me to be honest.
I’ve provided a list of the responses between us above in one of the other posts.
Now I probably have missed a post or two (or three or four…), but could you either show me (or else provide a link to) the posts where you explained this distinction to me?
Not if you’re a baby.
I’ve already explained the link between baptism and circumcision in detail for you (others did too). And all that you’ve done is make more assertions that we don’t know what we’re talking about.
My apologies if you’re not understanding this part-- but the Scriptures do make a strong link between baptism and circumcision.
Since little babies could be circumsized, it stands to reason that little babies can be baptized too. And there’s nothing within the Scriptures which forbids babies being baptized. And there’s plenty within the Scriptures to indicate that babies were baptized.
But little babies were still circumcised even though they, according to your theology, could neither sin nor repent.
What’s up with that?
I still think you still have to answer the question of why Abraham was circumsized even though he already had faith.
I also think you still need to answer why little children could be circumcised even though they didn’t have faith.
And I still think you need to answer why baptism is not linked with circumcision in Christian theology even though the Christian Scriptures theologically link the two together.
Once you’ve answered these questions, then I think we can go into the direction of discussing vicarious baptisms on behalf of the dead– whatever that means.
I’ll be waiting.
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tequilamac
Guest
Vicarious baptism of the dead. Means by proxy. Meaning they would if they could. But obviously they cannot because they are dead. So the LDS do it for them. Problem with this thinking is that if they cannot desire it because they are dead, they simultaneously cannot have the faith zerinus claims they have as they are well, again dead. But this obvious contradiction in logic has never been an impediment for the LDS. A most remarkable group of people who may actually end up developing a new system of logic.Getting a but touchy there zerinus.
Can anyone but a divinity be blasphemed?
If only a deity can be blasphemed, then why do Scriptures say that whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven?
Doesn’t this sound very familiar to what will happen when people misuse the name of God, one of the very commandments for that matter?
Sound familiar?
No. Actually, they haven’t been answered.
But if this is going to boil down to more answers like “Because the Lord has commanded us not to!” or “So obeying the commandments of God is not logical enough for you? Sorry, for me it is!”, you can save your energy.
I am obeying the commandments of God. You are not.
What exactly does vicarious baptisms on behalf of the dead mean?
Why can’t you perform vicarious baptisms on behalf of little babies?
Actually, please forgive me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall you explaining this to me to be honest.
I’ve provided a list of the responses between us above in one of the other posts.
Now I probably have missed a post or two (or three or four…), but could you either show me (or else provide a link to) the posts where you explained this distinction to me?
Not if you’re a baby.
I’ve already explained the link between baptism and circumcision in detail for you (others did too). And all that you’ve done is make more assertions that we don’t know what we’re talking about.
My apologies if you’re not understanding this part-- but the Scriptures do make a strong link between baptism and circumcision.
Since little babies could be circumsized, it stands to reason that little babies can be baptized too. And there’s nothing within the Scriptures which forbids babies being baptized. And there’s plenty within the Scriptures to indicate that babies were baptized.
But little babies were still circumcised even though they, according to your theology, could neither sin nor repent.
What’s up with that?
I still think you still have to answer the question of why Abraham was circumsized even though he already had faith.
I also think you still need to answer why little children could be circumcised even though they didn’t have faith.
And I still think you need to answer why baptism is not linked with circumcision in Christian theology even though the Christian Scriptures theologically link the two together.
Once you’ve answered these questions, then I think we can go into the direction of discussing vicarious baptisms on behalf of the dead– whatever that means.
I’ll be waiting.
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hosemonkey
Guest
Once again I am amazed at the effort that you good people expend trying to explain the truth to members of false religions like JWs or Mormons. I am convinced that only the Holy Spirit (in whom I am not sure that they believe) will have any effect upon their obstinate ignorance. It is as if Satan has clouded their minds and enabled them to believe in utter nonsense. Baptism for the dead? Eternal Progression? God was once a man? Give me a break.
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tequilamac
Guest
The difficulty here hosemonkey is not “obstinate ignorance”. It is something much deeper than that. Obstinate ignorance could apply to Jack Chick. The LDS are not necessarily acting deliberately if you get my drift. They are very, very sincere. :yup: :yup:Once again I am amazed at the effort that you good people expend trying to explain the truth to members of false religions like JWs or Mormons. I am convinced that only the Holy Spirit (in whom I am not sure that they believe) will have any effect upon their obstinate ignorance. It is as if Satan has clouded their minds and enabled them to believe in utter nonsense. Baptism for the dead? Eternal Progression? God was once a man? Give me a break.
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hosemonkey
Guest
So what is it? Some sort of mind control?
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Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
Flawless Babality!Vicarious baptism of the dead. Means by proxy. Meaning they would if they could. But obviously they cannot because they are dead. So the LDS do it for them. Problem with this thinking is that if they cannot desire it because they are dead, they simultaneously cannot have the faith zerinus claims they have as they are well, again dead. But this obvious contradiction in logic has never been an impediment for the LDS. A most remarkable group of people who may actually end up developing a new system of logic.
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tequilamac
Guest
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hosemonkey
Guest
No, really. If I tried to put some of these concepts up for sale, I would surely go to jail for fraud.Have a heart
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tequilamac
Guest
Joseph Smith already went that route. It didn’t help obviously.No, really. If I tried to put some of these concepts up for sale, I would surely go to jail for fraud.
What we have here, cool hand luke, is a failure to communicate. :tsktsk: :tsktsk: There is the one who started all this Joseph Smith and what was on his mind is anyone’s guess. What we have now is a generational thing full of sincerity with it’s roots obscured and that is a horse of another color
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tequilamac
Guest
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