Judaism Elitist Religion?

[Polak]

You could be right about that @(name removed by moderator).

Patty talked about how Jews stick together and do favours for one another more than other communities/religions do.

They watch out for each other. They feel an obligation to each other. It’s rather strong, too.

Everything from financially helping each other to getting them jobs or set up in another community.

I agree, Jews will help their own more than outsiders. They are obligated to help each other

She then even gave an example of how her husband was given a job by Jews, because he was Jewish and that ‘it’s a trait more religions should have’.

I just pointed out that while this is great, that a community ‘helps itself’, others might well see that as being a bit elitist, that a Jewish person will help a fellow Jew out but not a non Jew, or least, they’ll help the Jew first, then possibly the non Jew, as long as the Jew has been helped first. Imagine if a white person said he was prioritising helping white people first, then other races.

You later tried to tell me that Christians do the same thing, but Patty herself stated that it would be nice if other religions were as helpful to their own, as Jews are. So it seems she disagrees with you that other religions help their own as much as Jews.

Don’t Catholic Churches help Catholic immigrants get set up and employed within their communities?

Not just because they are Catholics. They don’t check if the migrants are Catholic before deciding whether to help them or not. A migrant won’t go into a church and only be offered help if they find out they are Catholic.

If you think charity only belongs to Christians

I never said this.

 

[Pattylt]

She then even gave an example of how her husband was given a job by Jews, because he was Jewish and that ‘it’s a trait more religions should have’.

Perhaps I should have been clear here…my husband is not Jewish and that was known by his employer. As far as I know, Jews will do this for anyone. It’s not required they be Jewish it’s just that it’s usually Jews asking.

I’m pretty sure if I walked into the Baptist church down the street from my house if they knew anyone hiring or needing a good worker would you give them my name, they’d say yes and try to help.

Don’t your churches have announcements where they make some needs of people known? There’s really none of this within Catholicism?

 

[Polak]

my husband is not Jewish and that was known by his employer.

Ok I misunderstood that, but I assume the reason you even mentioned that your husband was given a job within two days when you were considered Jewish, was precisely because you were Jewish. You even wrote ‘it’s just what Jews do for each other’.

As far as I know, Jews will do this for anyone.

Hmmmm you now seem to be going back on what you wrote earlier. Jewish people ‘watch out for each other’, ‘feel an obligation to each other’, ‘are obligated to help each other’. Yet here you claim they’ll do this for anyone.

 

[meltzerboy2]

A few points on this.

One is that Nazarene Jews, who still exist, consider themselves Jewish, not Christians, even though they believe in Jesus as the Messiah. They do not, however, believe in the divinity of Jesus. If they do consider themselves Jewish, who am I to say they are not?

Another issue is that there are different kinds of Messianic Jews. Some are of Protestant roots and take on the rituals of Judaism, while others are of Jewish origin and still regard themselves as Jewish. Again, who am I to say that either group is not Jewish?

Finally, I think of people like the late Leonard Cohen, who became a Buddhist monk but was, at the same time, an Orthodox Jew, and was very interested in Jesus as well, as several of his songs tell us.
What was he? If he identified as Jewish, so be it.

Judaism has evolved into a very complex religion indeed with several denominations or streams, not only Orthodox (of various stripes themselves), Conservative, and Reform, but also Reconstructionist, Humanist, cultural, secular, and whatnot. If an individual of any of these groups calls themselves Jewish, I would tend to go along with their own self-identity.

 

[AlNg]

If an individual of any of these groups calls themselves Jewish, I would tend to go along with their own self-identity.

But does Israel?

Israel Tells Reform Jews: You’re Not Really Jewish, but Your Money Is Just Jewish Enough - Jewish World - Haaretz.com

 

[Pattylt]

That article is a big reason I don’t worship at the Israel idea. It’s a theocracy disguised as a democracy. The problem is that it is our only friend in the Middle East. We give it way too much money and place too little demand on it. JMHO

 

[meltzerboy2]

I care little who Israel, its government or rabbis, or any other country says about who is a Jew and who is not. In the eyes of Gd, I believe I am Jewish, and that is all I care about.

 

[Pattylt]

It’s funny because as I was growing up, we constantly were “doing” things for Israel. Donating money to plant trees, help orphans, Holocaust stuff. My cousin a few years older than I, went to live on Kibbutz for two years…met her husband there (a frequent reason jews do a stint in a kibbutz) but came back to the US to get married and settle. Her husband was half Jewish, raised in Israel and still had to officially convert to Judaism because he was Jewish on his fathers side, not his mothers. He didn’t mind, it just seemed kind of silly as he was raised Jewish yet couldn’t marry in Israel unless he converted. So, he did and left to marry here anyway.

The Orthodox, who aren’t a majority, control so much of the politics. I’m a strong believer in the separation of church and state so Israel was never on my radar anyway. After I left Judaism behind, I started reading “the other side” of the story. For a people that formed a state so that Never Again would take place, they seem to forget their manners when it comes to Palestinians. Believe me, the Palestinians aren’t innocent either…it’s just that there is much Israel should be ashamed of. I think many Americans were just too idealistic, many still are, on what’s really going on in Israel’s history and today. Idealism tends to always bite you in the rear when placed against reality.

 

[Kaninchen]

I hear the dramatic theme from the film ‘Exodus’ and the stirring words: “This land is mine, God gave this land to me, this brave and ancient land to me . . .” every time we land at Fiumicino, Capodichino, Marco Polo, Pisa . . . .

 

[Pattylt]

I had a gymnastics routine to the music!

As a matter of fact, every time I hear the opening refrain, I still mentally do the routine! I haven’t watched the movie in ages…I wonder how it’ll hold up now? It’ll probably seem sappy…

 

[Pattylt]

Haven’t we all!

 

[Polak]

Judaism has evolved into a very complex religion indeed with several denominations or streams, not only Orthodox (of various stripes themselves), Conservative, and Reform, but also Reconstructionist, Humanist, cultural, secular, and whatnot.

That’s an interesting way to put it. So you would consider humanism or secular denominations of Judaism?

 

[meltzerboy2]

Yes, there are Jews who believe in Gd but practice no rituals. There are also Jews who don’t believe in Gd but practice rituals. And there are Jews who believe neither but still regard themselves as Jewish, whether agnostic or atheist. Judaism includes so many varieties, whether or not other Jews or non-Jews agree with them.

 

[Niblo]

Interesting…anyone know if Muslims have this? Just curious…

Hi Patty,

There are a number of Islamic festivals and celebrations, the most important of which are ‘Eid al-Fitr’, which takes place at the end of Ramadan, and lasts for three days; and ‘Eid al-Adha’, which marks the time of the pilgrimage to Mecca, and celebrates the faithfulness and obedience of Abraham.

Other festivals include ‘Moulid an-Nabi’ which celebrates the birth of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) – and is shunned by puritans; and ‘Ras as-Sana’, the Islamic New Year.

Many UK Muslims also celebrate Christmas – not as a religious festival, but as a family affair (complete with Christmas trees!). Like all kids, their children also expect pressies.

 

[Pattylt]

Thank you @Niblo,
Are these festivals celebrated in the home with any accompanying religious component? A set of specific prayers? Specific religious ritual?

I’m wondering as Hanukkah is celebrated in the home with the lighting of candles and a prayer. I can’t think of a specific Jewish celebration that takes place in the home without some specific religious element.

I always appreciate when you share your beliefs and traditions!

 

[Kaninchen]

And I always had you down as more of a Val Doonican fan!

 

[Kaninchen]

I had a gymnastics routine to the music!

I do audiobooks and long fast walks early every morning - my day usually starts with a murder or two.

The “this land is mine” thing reflects family background and my love of Italy - it’s where we take ourselves off to on holiday every year.

 

[Niblo]

Are these festivals celebrated in the home with any accompanying religious component? A set of specific prayers? Specific religious ritual?

I’m wondering as Hanukkah is celebrated in the home with the lighting of candles and a prayer. I can’t think of a specific Jewish celebration that takes place in the home without some specific religious element. I always appreciate when you share your beliefs and traditions!

Good morning, Patty.

Eid al-Fitr begins just before sunrise. After prayer, the family gathers for breakfast, and again for lunch and dinner. Folk will wear their best clothes (often new), and there is an exchange of gifts, especially for children and young people. There are no specific prayers (apart from a blessing over the food), and no religious ritual, during these meals. Just a fun time!

About two days before the Eid al-Fitr prayer, Muslims are required to pay ‘Zakat Al Fitr’ (a charity taken for the poor). The minimum expected amount is that required to pay for a single meal.

During the morning of Eid al-Adha , a special prayer called Salat al-Eid is recited in honour of the festival.

Muslims traditionally dress in their best clothes; and there is the usual exchange of gifts.

Eid al-Adha celebrates Abrahams willingness to sacrifice his son (Ishmael, according to Islam). It is a time of sharing, and of gratitude to Allāh (subḥānahu ūta’āla) for His mercy.

In remembrance of the animal given to Abraham as a replacement for his son, each household will sacrifice a sheep, cow, goat, or camel (according to what it can afford). One third of the meat is consumed by the household; another third is given to the extended family, or to friends; and the final third is given to the needy.

Someone like me – having no UK Muslim family – can donate money to an Islamic charity; who will forward that donation to a nominated country or region, who will then sacrifice an animal, and distribute its meat on one’s behalf.

Have a great day, and very best regards. May HaShem continue to keep you - and all you love - safe in these difficult times.

Paul.

 

[KyPerson]

I work with a secular Jewish woman whose father was Orthodox. She said some Orthodox can be very closed minded. Some Orthodox don’t think that Jewish converts are “real” Jews no matter how sincere their conversion is. There aren’t a lot of Jewish people like that but they are there.
By the way, this woman who hasn’t practiced her faith in years and years gets all upset if she is wished Merry Christmas. I can only wonder, I have been wished Happy Hannukah by other Jewish friends and I only said thanks, and Happy Hannukah to you too.

 

[Salibi]

One pleasant aspect of Eid al-Fitr for both Muslims and non-Muslims living in countries where there is a significant Muslim population is the abundance of cheap offers at restaurants and supermarkets! :crazy_face:

Because when else can I get a gigantic restaurant meal offer for only a few dollars?