Judge orders lesbian reinstated to Air Force

  • Thread starter Thread starter stanmaxkolbe
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

stanmaxkolbe

Guest
Judge orders lesbian reinstated to Air Force

TACOMA, Wash. – A federal judge says the Air Force violated the constitutional rights of a highly decorated flight nurse when it discharged her for being gay, and ordered that she be given her job back as soon as possible.

U.S. District Judge Ronald Leighton issued his highly anticipated ruling Friday in the case of former Maj Margaret Witt. She was discharged under the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on gays serving in the military and sued to get her job back.

In 2008, a appeals federal court ruled in her case that the military can’t discharge people for being gay unless it proves their firing furthered military goals.
After a six-day trial, the judge said testimony proved Witt was an outstanding nurse and her reinstatement would do nothing to hurt unit morale…
Read more:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100924/ap_on_re_us/us_gays_in_military_10
 
And so they should. Discrimination does no good for any one.
 
On behalf of the untold military whose lives may be saved by having a talented and dedicated nurse tend to them at a critical time, I salute this decision.
 
I’m most concerned about the fact someone is using the court to (re)enter the military. Everyone she serves with could rightly suspect her allegiance.
 
Corki said:
It wasn’t discrimination. It was following the law. Disregard of the law does not good for anyone.
Click to expand...
Whether it’s law or not does not change it being discrimination. If I made a law which said that black people must give up their seats for white people on the bus, would that stop it from being discrimination? No it’s doesn’t. In America, everyone is told they have to right to express themselves how they like and to live their life how they want to. What a great contradiction in the philosophy of your country if you cannot be a lesbian and serve your country at the same time!
 
SonCatcher said:
I’m most concerned about the fact someone is using the court to (re)enter the military. Everyone she serves with could rightly suspect her allegiance.
Click to expand...
Why would anyone suspect her allegiance? It was an American court with an American Judge. Her allegiance was never in question before.
 
stanmaxkolbe said:
Judge orders lesbian reinstated to Air Force

TACOMA, Wash. – A federal judge says the Air Force violated the constitutional rights of a highly decorated flight nurse when it discharged her for being gay, and ordered that she be given her job back as soon as possible.

U.S. District Judge Ronald Leighton issued his highly anticipated ruling Friday in the case of former Maj Margaret Witt. She was discharged under the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on gays serving in the military and sued to get her job back.

In 2008, a appeals federal court ruled in her case that the military can’t discharge people for being gay unless it proves their firing furthered military goals.
After a six-day trial, the judge said testimony proved Witt was an outstanding nurse and her reinstatement would do nothing to hurt unit morale…
Read more:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100924/ap_on_re_us/us_gays_in_military_10
Click to expand...
Wait, what?

Stan, I’m guessing maybe you can answer this, but since when do federal courts have jurisdiction over the military? Especially since the military has it’s own internal justice system (in this case it would be the Judge Advocate General’s Corps, U.S. Air Force, no?).

And how can a judge order the military to do something, considering that judges fall far outside the military chain of command (a chain which has the Executive branch as it’s head, not the Judicial)? This seems to go completely afoul of the Constitutional Separation of Powers.
 
curlycool89 said:
Especially since the military has it’s own internal justice system
Click to expand...
Yes, the Uniform Code of Military Justice. This isn’t a criminal case.
This seems to go completely afoul of the Constitutional Separation of Powers.
Click to expand...
Neither the Air Force nor anyone else challenges the judges’s abiity to do this.
 
curlycool89 said:
This seems to go completely afoul of the Constitutional Separation of Powers.
Click to expand...
I read further. The suit had to do with a Substantive Due Process violation under the 5th Amendment. A court rightly has jurisdiction on a Constitutional matter; it can’t be internal to the Air Force.
 
I find it amazing…in a time when the services are paying $20,000 to $30,000 in “sign-on” bonuses to nurses…that we go on a witch-hunt…over someones sexual orientation. :mad:

I served in Vietnam with guys that were “probably” gay…long before the term “gay” was part of everyday lexicon…but the bottom line was, we were “combat troops” and we were a cohesive unit and did our jobs…never was anything said about anyone’s choices. They NEVER exhibited any tendencies that were noticeable…there were just other signs that were “detectable”…but when the “fur hit the fan”…they were just as brave and tenacious as anyone else, and I am proud to have served with them. My life depended on them, and I trusted them with my life…and they NEVER let me or anyone else down. Frankly, I cannot help but wonder how many gay troops have their names on the Vietnam Wall in DC? They made the “ultimate sacrifice” for their country…and they, of all people could have avoided serving just by declaring their “sexual orientation”…BUT THEY DIDN’T!!! They CHOSE to serve…and did, even giving their lives, the ultimate sacrifice. Isn’t it time, despite our disapproval of their orientation, and the position of the Church with regards to their actions, but be Christian enough to accept that they are in fact a part of our society, and they have and will continue to make significant contributions to our society??

In this day and age when we depend on an all volunteer military services to protect and defend this nation…can we afford to discard highly qualified and talented personnel because of a “sexual orientation”? If we were to actually embrace that, then maybe its best that we establish testing on a psych level to determine the level of “deviancy” of those heterosexuals in the service, because frankly I met some pretty twisted people in my time…

Sometimes I think we are self destructive and foolish…
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I read further. The suit had to do with a Substantive Due Process violation under the 5th Amendment. A court rightly has jurisdiction on a Constitutional matter; it can’t be internal to the Air Force.
Click to expand...
It should also be noted that, while a person enters the service, they DO NOT lose or surrender their rights under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, in particular the “Due Process” clause…so they are protected by Federal Courts rulings. This was well established during or after the Vietnam war, by the parent of some troops who were killed by faulty artillery munitions that misfired or cooked off in the breeches of howitzers.

The primary purpose of the UCMJ is “disciplinary”, and has virtually no effect on “Civil issues”.
 
This ludicrous policy is going where it belongs, in the trashbin of history. My guess is that the DOD isn’t going to want to spend years litigating each discharge under DADT, knowing they will lose.
 
LemonAndLime said:
In America, everyone is told they have to right to express themselves how they like and to live their life how they want to. What a great contradiction in the philosophy of your country if you cannot be a lesbian and serve your country at the same time!
Click to expand...
HOOAH! 👍
 
RobHom said:
I find it amazing…in a time when the services are paying $20,000 to $30,000 in “sign-on” bonuses to nurses…that we go on a witch-hunt…over someones sexual orientation. :mad:

I served in Vietnam with guys that were “probably” gay…long before the term “gay” was part of everyday lexicon…but the bottom line was, we were “combat troops” and we were a cohesive unit and did our jobs…never was anything said about anyone’s choices. They NEVER exhibited any tendencies that were noticeable…there were just other signs that were “detectable”…but when the “fur hit the fan”…they were just as brave and tenacious as anyone else, and I am proud to have served with them. My life depended on them, and I trusted them with my life…and they NEVER let me or anyone else down. Frankly, I cannot help but wonder how many gay troops have their names on the Vietnam Wall in DC? They made the “ultimate sacrifice” for their country…and they, of all people could have avoided serving just by declaring their “sexual orientation”…BUT THEY DIDN’T!!! They CHOSE to serve…and did, even giving their lives, the ultimate sacrifice. Isn’t it time, despite our disapproval of their orientation, and the position of the Church with regards to their actions, but be Christian enough to accept that they are in fact a part of our society, and they have and will continue to make significant contributions to our society??

In this day and age when we depend on an all volunteer military services to protect and defend this nation…can we afford to discard highly qualified and talented personnel because of a “sexual orientation”? If we were to actually embrace that, then maybe its best that we establish testing on a psych level to determine the level of “deviancy” of those heterosexuals in the service, because frankly I met some pretty twisted people in my time…

Sometimes I think we are self destructive and foolish…
Click to expand...
**HOOAH! 👍 **My brother is a Nam vet 11B Infantry, Rob thank you for my freedom brother. 👍
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I read further. The suit had to do with a Substantive Due Process violation under the 5th Amendment. A court rightly has jurisdiction on a Constitutional matter; it can’t be internal to the Air Force.
Click to expand...
Ah, got it. That makes more sense.
 
RobHom said:
I find it amazing…in a time when the services are paying $20,000 to $30,000 in “sign-on” bonuses to nurses…that we go on a witch-hunt…over someones sexual orientation. :mad:

I served in Vietnam with guys that were “probably” gay…long before the term “gay” was part of everyday lexicon…but the bottom line was, we were “combat troops” and we were a cohesive unit and did our jobs…never was anything said about anyone’s choices. They NEVER exhibited any tendencies that were noticeable…there were just other signs that were “detectable”…but when the “fur hit the fan”…they were just as brave and tenacious as anyone else, and I am proud to have served with them. My life depended on them, and I trusted them with my life…and they NEVER let me or anyone else down. Frankly, I cannot help but wonder how many gay troops have their names on the Vietnam Wall in DC? They made the “ultimate sacrifice” for their country…and they, of all people could have avoided serving just by declaring their “sexual orientation”…BUT THEY DIDN’T!!! They CHOSE to serve…and did, even giving their lives, the ultimate sacrifice. Isn’t it time, despite our disapproval of their orientation, and the position of the Church with regards to their actions, but be Christian enough to accept that they are in fact a part of our society, and they have and will continue to make significant contributions to our society??

In this day and age when we depend on an all volunteer military services to protect and defend this nation…can we afford to discard highly qualified and talented personnel because of a “sexual orientation”? If we were to actually embrace that, then maybe its best that we establish testing on a psych level to determine the level of “deviancy” of those heterosexuals in the service, because frankly I met some pretty twisted people in my time…

Sometimes I think we are self destructive and foolish…
Click to expand...
Currently, I am serving in Afghanistan in a medical capacity. Heres a story for you all to think on. Recently, a femal Navy Corpsman was assigned to a MOD (this is a multi person berthing unit) with three female soldiers. One night she was called to the Hospital to assist with treatment of a number of combat casualties. When she returned to her MOD at about 0200 she opened the door and found her three roommates engaing in homosexual sex. They yelled at her to either join in or get out. She got out and went to her Chief who went to the SGTMAJ for the unit these three soldiers were part of. The next day they were administratively discharged and the Corpsman was able to return to the MOD safe in the knowledge that she would not be harrassed.

Do you all think that without Don’t ask, don’t tell this happy outcome would have occurred. I suspect her complaint would go no where and she would have to live in fear in the MOD until the Soldiers moved on or she did.

Are you all ready to bear the expense of paying benefits to gay partners, having to build housing that accomadates not only Male and Female, but gay and straight as well.

Your one dimensional thinking is truly amazing. There are consequences with all actions.

By the way, there is no shortage of Nurses in the Military above the rank of O4; frankly they stop being nurses and start being administrators. So I am not moved by the Air Force nurse loosing her really easy gig.

Finally, what do they mean by highly decorated. The USAF passes out medals like McDonalds gives away toys in a Happy Meal. PLEASE:eek:
 
Cubsfan said:
Currently, I am serving in Afghanistan in a medical capacity. Heres a story for you all to think on. Recently, a femal Navy Corpsman was assigned to a MOD (this is a multi person berthing unit) with three female soldiers. One night she was called to the Hospital to assist with treatment of a number of combat casualties. When she returned to her MOD at about 0200 she opened the door and found her three roommates engaing in homosexual sex. They yelled at her to either join in or get out. She got out and went to her Chief who went to the SGTMAJ for the unit these three soldiers were part of. The next day they were administratively discharged and the Corpsman was able to return to the MOD safe in the knowledge that she would not be harrassed.

Do you all think that without Don’t ask, don’t tell this happy outcome would have occurred. I suspect her complaint would go no where and she would have to live in fear in the MOD until the Soldiers moved on or she did.

Are you all ready to bear the expense of paying benefits to gay partners, having to build housing that accomadates not only Male and Female, but gay and straight as well.

Your one dimensional thinking is truly amazing. There are consequences with all actions.

By the way, there is no shortage of Nurses in the Military above the rank of O4; frankly they stop being nurses and start being administrators. So I am not moved by the Air Force nurse loosing her really easy gig.

Finally, what do they mean by highly decorated. The USAF passes out medals like McDonalds gives away toys in a Happy Meal. PLEASE:eek:
Click to expand...
So how many straight guys have been discharged for having sex and not getting along with their roommates?

Nobody said close quarters living was easy for anyone, but if adults can’t sort out simple roommate disputes without the intervention of command, I question whether they are capable of dealing with one of the most volatile areas of the world.

This problem you mention is not high-order mathematics or rocket science. You work out times when people can have some privacy, find someplace other than quarters for romps and use the old coathanger on the door code.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top