Judge rules Obamacare unconstitutional, endangering coverage for 20 million

[Inisfallen]

will deny coverage when the individual is deemed not worthy for any reason, such as cost, age, severity of condition, health habits, etc.

Right. And insurance companies never do this (unless restrained from doing so by government)?

 

[Ridgerunner]

We can see charity manifest in freely giving, but that giving is not the actual virtue. Likewise, we can see charity (or not) in the way we speak of the poor and our attitude toward them

Is this what you truly mean to say?

It almost sounds as if you’re saying my charitableness is not measured by my actions, but by my attitude and how I speak of the poor.

I submit that the exact opposite is true. Perhaps I misunderstood you.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

will deny coverage when the individual is deemed not worthy for any reason, such as cost, age, severity of condition, health habits, etc.

Right. And insurance companies never do this (unless restrained from doing so by government)?

But I can change companies. I can’t opt out of the coercion of government.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Why do we subsidize it? I think it provides government power over the individual.

Part of the problem is that when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul.

 

[ProVobis]

Well if you don’t like paying taxes you can always move to Puerto Rico. Just sayin’

 

[graciew]

I attempted to answer his post with what I thought would complete his idea .

 

[vz71]

Government gets its money from the same source as charity.

I know of no charity that will put you in jail for not giving.

 

[Theo520]

Oh well. These people do vote.

Yup, free stuff brings out the votes, especially when you start taking stuff away - even if we can’t afford it.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Government gets its money from the same source as charity.

I know of no charity that will put you in jail for not giving.

Yep. That’s about it.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Why do we subsidize it? I think it provides government power over the individual.

Part of the problem is that when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul.

Correct. But it is sold that we have to help Paul because Paul is poor, and while I agree that we do need to help those in need, forcing people to help is, in my view, no more moral than not helping.

 

[JonNC]

Well if you don’t like paying taxes you can always move to Puerto Rico. Just sayin’

According to the federal contract, the constitution, there is no enumerated power given to the general government in healthcare. It seems to me that I’m not the one who should have to leave to get what the contract already says I should have here. Just sayin.

 

[Inisfallen]

According to the federal contract, the constitution, there is no enumerated power given to the general government in healthcare.

The Constitution isn’t a contract.

That said, maybe there’s no enumerated power to provide healthcare because “healthcare” pretty much hadn’t been invented yet? I mean, they were still bleeding people back then. The Constitution couldn’t address it any more than it could address space travel.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

According to the federal contract, the constitution, there is no enumerated power given to the general government in healthcare.

The Constitution isn’t a contract.

That said, maybe there’s no enumerated power to provide healthcare because “healthcare” pretty much hadn’t been invented yet? I mean, they were still bleeding people back then. The Constitution couldn’t address it any more than it could address space travel.

You’re right. I used the wrong term. It is a legal document. It says what it says, and doesn’t say what it doesn’t say.
There’s no enumerated power because that’s not a function of the general government. The 10th amendment confirms that other powers belong to the states and the people.
Those wishing to grant a new power over healthcare to the general government should offer a constitutional amendment.

 

[Inisfallen]

There’s no enumerated power because that’s not a function of the general government. The 10th amendment confirms that other powers belong to the states and the people.
Those wishing to grantba new power over healthcare to the general government should offer a constitutional amendment.

So I’m guessing you think Medicare, Medicaid, the VHA, the Indian Health Service, the DOD program (TRICARE? Can’t remember exactly), and perhaps the entire Department of Health and Human Services are operating unconstitutionally?

I get what you’re saying, but I think it’s outside the mainstream of constitutional thought.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

There’s no enumerated power because that’s not a function of the general government. The 10th amendment confirms that other powers belong to the states and the people.
Those wishing to grantba new power over healthcare to the general government should offer a constitutional amendment.

So I’m guessing you think Medicare, Medicaid, the VHA, the Indian Health Service, the DOD program (TRICARE? Can’t remember exactly), and perhaps the entire Department of Health and Human Services are operating unconstitutionally?

I get what you’re saying, but I think it’s outside the mainstream of constitutional thought.

The VA, as disastrous as it has been, is a contractual arrangement, a compensation for military employees. BIA Services are, essentially, contractual arrangements with Native American tribes - effectively, treaties.
As for the rest, yes, though the term would be extra-constitutional since it seems the SCOTUS allows them to exist.

 

[pnewton]

If it is gone by government, it is then by coercion. As such, it is not compassion. It is not charity. It is solely government power.
As long as we recognize this,…

But I do not recognize this. One of the common themes of the last few decades is “government” as the boogie man, all the time while extolling the virtue of the Founding Fathers. Yet we recognized that in the initial document that produced this nation that there was an understanding that “governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” We are the government, and it is use. A Christian majority will have a Christian morality operating in the government. All I am saying is that we should see that our compassion for others is represented when we vote, as well as when we give, in what ever way we deem prudent.

It almost sounds as if you’re saying my charitableness is not measured by my actions, but by my attitude and how I speak of the poor.

That is almost a fair assessment, though I would say that it is observed in both. That is the very message of James. Consider for a moment that our chapters and verses are artificial. Little old James 2:12 is tacked on as an end of most paragraphs when it should have been a beginning thesis.

“Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom.”

The very next though addresses our actions:

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

And then he moves to our speech:

With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?

In this, I generalize beyond health care, but in all we do, our personal life, our speech, and our public/political life should be one.

 

[JonNC]

If it is gone by government, it is then by coercion. As such, it is not compassion. It is not charity. It is solely government power.
As long as we recognize this,…

But I do not recognize this. One of the common themes of the last few decades is “government” as the boogie man, all the time while extolling the virtue of the Founding Fathers. Yet we recognized that in the initial document that produced this nation that there was an understanding that “governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” We are the government, and it is use.

You can choose to not recognize the reality if you choose, but it is still reality.
The consent of the governed is granted specifically in the constitution. If you want to change it to reflect a new preference for additional government power, the framers included a precise process, 2 in fact, under Article 5.
There is no vehicle that allows for some majority rules process to grant consent in any other fashion.

A Christian majority will have a Christian morality operating in the government. All I am saying is that we should see that our compassion for others is represented when we vote, as well as when we give, in what ever way we deem prudent.

There is nothing here I disagree with, but I believe it to be unChristian to force someone to give up the fruits of their labor to another against their will.

 

[pnewton]

You can choose to not recognize the reality if you choose, but it is still reality.

LOL!!! I can’t tell you how many times I have read people here express their opinion as though it were some absolute truth. Welcome to the 21st Century where shouting louder “Trumps” reasoning.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

You can choose to not recognize the reality if you choose, but it is still reality.

LOL!!! I can’t tell you how many times I have read people here express their opinion as though it were some absolute truth. Welcome to the 21st Century where shouting louder “Trumps” reasoning.

LOL. The loudest shouting has been coming from the left.
I certainly wasn’t shouting. All I said was it is a reality that if against my will, government dictates healthcare and confiscates tax money in order to finance it, that’s coercion. It may be “legal”, but it is coercion nonetheless.
That’s not shouting. I leave the shouting to the #resistence.

 

[Inisfallen]

All I said was it is a reality that if against my will, government dictates healthcare and confiscates tax money in order to finance it, that’s coercion. It may be “legal”, but it is coercion nonetheless.

You say that like it’s a bad thing…