Judge rules Obamacare unconstitutional, endangering coverage for 20 million

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Yeah was gonna say, insurance companies wrote the ACA. It is the ultimate crony capitalism.
 
Well, with its mandates, it certainly did increase the market for certain kinds of coverage that few need.
 
I remember very clearly when the Affordable Care act was being debated . Republicans would make demands and Democrats would try to meet them and then Republicans would change their demands. Happened over and over again. Can you imagine if the Republicans and democrats would have worked together to do what was the best for the American people . But Republicans thought it was more important to make Obama a failure. I am a cancer survivor and so is my husband. Have two kids who have preexisting conditions. You can bet I was watching this closely. Will never vote for a Republican again for a National office
 
Inisfallen said:
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JonNC:
It is an attempted first step at the goal of complete government dictatorial control over the health care of the American people.
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No. You may perceive it that way, but it simply isn’t.

It was an imperfect, flawed attempt to provide affordable health care to all Americans, regardless of income.
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If the goal is to provide healthcare to those who cannot afford it, there may be some room for agreement, but it should not interfere with those who already have it and can afford it. Millions lost the policies they had because of ACA. Many must pay far higher premiums, copays and deductibles because of ACA.
On all counts: lowering costs, covering the oft reported 44 million who lacked health insurance (which does not mean a lack of health care), and the promise that you can keep your doctor and plan, ACA is an undeniable failure.
 
People don’t know what they need until they’re diagnosed and then it may become a pre-existing condition.
 
Ridgerunner said:
But the ones on the heavy end of the payment are those middle class people who do not have employment-based insurance. Heavily represented would be self-employed people who do not make huge sums of money.
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They aren’t going to pass a law that helps small businessman at the expense of corporations. They’ll do the opposite of course.
JonNC said:
If the goal is to provide healthcare to those who cannot afford it, there may be some room for agreement, but it should not interfere with those who already have it and can afford it.
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Those who can’t afford insurance can’t for a reason. It is most often they have existing medical conditions that make insurance premiums high. For them they don’t need insurance at all but if anything subsidized health care. They are better off paying the cash price for services which is largely a huge discount over the insurance price.
 
Really? I know I could never afford to pay in cash for any medical procedure - it’s usually tens of thousands of dollars!
 
Victoria33 said:
Yes, blame Trump and the GOP for a judges decision. That makes sense.
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Actually it was the tax bill with its elimination of the mandate which laid the foundation of the lawsuit. And here we thought the Republicans changed their position of keeping pre-existing conditions in healthcare policies. Very disingenuous IMO.
 
As I recall, full government healthcare passed in the House, which had a Democrat majority. It failed in the Senate, which also had a Dem majority. So the Dems then came up with obamacare. Almost nobody knew what was in it until it passed. It was not quite a product of either party, but of a limited number of people in the administration who didn’t actually share its contents with congress.
 
exnihilo said:
They are better off paying the cash price for services which is largely a huge discount over the insurance price.
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If this statement bears some truth, (and in actuality it does) I find it problematic we’re not up in arms over the “insurance price”. A person with insurance may be charged upwards of 15/dollars for a Tylenol in the ED, whereas the fee is substantially reduced for a private payer.

I don’t find the problem with Uncle Sam (who has to be dragged into to it to correct the misgivings which have been numerous and always in favor of the insurance company), but rather the problem lies with the insurance companies which have needed an enema for quite some time.

We’re dealing with people, not cars. When a CEO for a health insurance organization can make 10 million dollars and a multitude of premium payments always going up (never down), Houston, we have a problem.
 
exnihilo said:
Those who can’t afford insurance can’t for a reason. It is most often they have existing medical conditions that make insurance premiums high. For them they don’t need insurance at all but if anything subsidized health care. They are better off paying the cash price for services which is largely a huge discount over the insurance price.
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The cure for that is large voluntary associations that can bargain for the lowest prices. The Rand Paul Plan offers the best opportunity, in my view, to get those with pre-existing conditions covered, prices lower, while still allowing Americans to choose how they wish to cover themselves and their families.
 
ProVobis said:
People don’t know what they need until they’re diagnosed and then it may become a pre-existing condition.
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Still, few post-menopausal women need prenatal care coverage. Men don’t either, nor do they need 100% birth control coverage for free. Mormons don’t need alcohol rehab. Most people don’t need drug rehab. Pre-existing conditions MUST be covered after 60 days under any ERISA-qualified employment-based plan. (that’s nearly all of them). If a person doesn’t have employment, he’ll almost certainly qualify for Medicaid.
 
You are correct in your recollection. The Senate passed their own version of healthcare on Christmas Eve 2009 but before they could reconcile with the House bill, the Democrats in the Senate lost their 60th vote. So it was the imperfect and incomplete Christmas bill or nothing.
 
Employer-based insurance was also offered to those who left the company under a Reagan-era provision called COBRA. It was only for 18 months though. The House bill extended that to 5 years but it wasn’t considered in that Christmas bill in the Senate for unknown reasons. Perhaps they thought full employment was right around the corner.
 
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tomarin said:
Really? I know I could never afford to pay in cash for any medical procedure - it’s usually tens of thousands of dollars!
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Depends on the treatment, but usually there is a cash price. Even a simple doctors office visit has a cash price. It can be a lot less. But it is very hard to ever get a doctor to give you an estimate for what seeing him will cost. This is part of the problem. When people don’t know and to some extent don’t care what the price is the the market isn’t working.
JonNC said:
It is also very difficult, in my experience, to get them to share the actual price.
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Yep. My car mechanic can tell me exactly what his services cost. Why can’t doctors? And yet people think car mechanics are crooks.
DENNYINMI said:
If this statement bears some truth, (and in actuality it does) I find it problematic we’re not up in arms over the “insurance price”. A person with insurance may be charged upwards of 15/dollars for a Tylenol in the ED, whereas the fee is substantially reduced for a private payer.

I don’t find the problem with Uncle Sam (who has to be dragged into to it to correct the misgivings which have been numerous and always in favor of the insurance company), but rather the problem lies with the insurance companies which have needed an enema for quite some time.
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Health insurance really started because of government. During WWII the government imposed a wage freeze. Companies would offer perks like health insurance as a way to get around it. This helped health insurance get tied to your job.

We should be up in arms but we have politicians like Obama selling everyone on how great insurance is.

People who need health care but can’t afford insurance should look into a coop. Those can be really great.
 
There are numerous restrictions to AHP’s, and while the Trump administration relaxed some of them, opening up this field of health coverage.
 
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